I still kinda like the LC, RC F, IS 350, and IS 500 myself. Fun to drive. Those cars mixed with the reliability, low running costs, and service of Lexus is a good thing to me. I must be the #2 fan LOL.

 

Yep, I would enthusiastically be a buyer of such a vehicle...

Most people just buy cars as transportation appliances, them being the #1 in all those areas doesn't mean much to enthusiasts like us that want a car that is competitive in design, performance, technology, etc. Now that I have experienced what the competitors offer it would be hard for me to go back.

I like those vehicles too, but they aren't in segments that I am a buyer in. What I want is a world class luxury sedan and world class RWD based SUVs.

 

I think these points are very valid. And yes, EVs are definitely coming fast. Yesterday on a short drive to drive through, I saw probably over 20 Tesla. Of those, four MX (one X plaid).

 

Yeah same here. As I'm going out of warranty, I'm looking for a replacement and Lexus is also on my mind. Then I realized the only one that would kind of fit my driving now is... the GX. But that thing is so cumbersome as a DD. I do like their minor changes and the front design. I hope the new one will have some significant changes. Most likely won't happen. My best option now is probably to stick to what I drive now until it starts giving me issues.

On agreement or on improvement? Probably have to be both to earn you as a customer again. ​​​​​​​

 

hard to blame lexus when enthusiasts are a tiny part of the market. however the main market is more complex than just 'transportation appliances'. younger people in particular want something that's stylish. hyundai/kia has done well attacking that with latest tucson/sportage for example. but good for toyota, the rav4 continues to sell like crazy.

you drive an s-class, the air (options) gets pretty thin up there

as for the suv the x7, gls are waiting for you.
and maybe a rumored gv90 if they ever get it on the market.

i don't know where in the u.s. you are, but yeah, i see a lot of teslas here too. i see almost zero of any other ev's though.

 

You can in that Lexus is supposed to be a luxury brand. Everybody else but Acura and Infiniti seems to be able to continue to develop and sell proper premium and higher performance vehicles. Mercedes sells garbage like the A Class and GLA and GLB to get volume but they ALSO still make amazing cars too.

Look at the commitment Hyundai has made with Genesis, refusing to sell rebadged FWD Hyundai models as Genesis

Lexus today is just Toyota + like Acura has always been Honda +

Didnt used to be. The LS used to compete just fine.

Sure there are options, but we’re talking about wanting a Lexus option.

I would absolutely come back to Lexus for the right product. I love my Mercedes, but there is a lot I prefer about Lexus.

 

JD Power can be used as informational, but they have conflict of interests with their advertisers. I love my Toyota/Lexus vehicles, but they need a shot in the arm.
Look at the new bZ4X/RZ 450e. No range, average interior materials and wheels fall off. I hear they are not even exciting to drive.

The only ICE car that interests me would be another GS350 F Sport, but they tamed it down and then killed it. The only cars that interest me now are Teslas (warts and all) and they are eating Lexus' lunch.

 

you're entitled to your repeatedly stated opinion but i noticed the GLB is selling at 23% markup over MSRP so obviously customers don't agree with you.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l#post11464770

you know i like genesis, but they sell in tiny numbers. i have no doubt lexus makes vastly more profit for toyota than genesis makes for hyundai. i know it's not all about profit, we're talking about product. i found the gv80 to be not as great as promised and too chrome/blingy for my tastes. the new g90 is a seriously great vehicle and an unbelievable value, if you can get one. i've no doubt i'd enjoy driving one but my next move is likely electric.

agreed. lexus blew it with the new LX the current LS, but other than that, how have they really changed?

i don't agree. you had LS's but wouldn't have leased the much more expensive S class. S class also had AMG and Maybach variants, plus coupes

times change. products change. we change.

genuinely interested - what do you prefer about lexus over mercedes?

 

The problem is...JDP's business model is selling its awards to manufacturers for advertising purposes, so, I don't trust their integrity. There is too much incentive to skew and manipulate surveys so they'll have products (awards) to sell.

 

The steering wheels are falling of Tesla's

I was at Lexus today. IMO they are going downhill. The interiors are losing their edge. The RX was a disappointment in many places. They don't build them like they used to.
Genesis was Hyundai Genesis. Genesis is just a hyun-end Hyundai

 

People buy them because they are cheap Mercedes, doesn't mean that they are good cars. Thats the point though, I can forgive them making cars like that because they also make amazing cars. Lexus could make all the transverse Toyota +s they want if they ALSO still made more amazing cars.

Once they buy the GLB, they aren't satisfied with them. Its on the list of CR's lowest rates cars for satisfaction with less than 40% of owners saying they would buy it again





Like you said, its not about profit its about compelling vehicles.

They have completely abandoned the upper end. There is no competitive LS, no competitive midsized sedan, they have no entries at all in what is the mainstay of the modern high end segment which is the RWD based crossover. If they had a competitive LS, and had a great RWD 2 and 3 row crossover on the GA-L platform i would feel totally different.

Its not a matter of agreeing or not agreeing, there was a time the LS outsold the Germans or at least was very close and consistently won comparison tests. The ONLY reason I chose to lease the S Class is because Lexus no longer offered a similar LS. Had the LS500 been a natural evolution of the LS460 I never would have left Lexus. Maybachs and AMGs are all well and good but most consumers don't buy those. MB World is FULL of people who have S Classes for the same reasons I do. because Lexus left them behind.

As for cost, my S Class is $290 more a month than my LS460L was, thats not a lot more for what additionally you get out of the S Class.

There are quite a few things. Service, my latest experience shows me that MB service is not as strong as Lexus. Fit and finish, Lexus has nicer paint, and finishes a car off better inside and out. Option packaging, Lexus vehicles present on the lot better equipped in general than MB models, they require less packages to make them feel nice inside. Audio, ML audio is superior to Burmester.

I'm just a Lexus fan, I like the way Lexus packages cars and I like their aesthetic and control interfaces. Those preferences though aren't enough to get me to choose a car that is objectively nowhere near as compelling.

 

lexus obviously chose to focus strongly on premium suv's and that's worked well for them (nx, rx mainly). they're both 'ok' to me, but i don't really like the exterior or interior looks of either. but obviously they're successful with them, combined with customer service and reliability as the OP states.



well they certainly limited the target costs and features, making the LS/LX less compelling. ditching the GS was sad for sure but lexus (and their dealers in particular) clearly could never differentiate the ES/GS enough. dealers would just pitch the ES as 'the same, but costs less', which to any enthusiast is a joke, but it is what it is, or was.

the LS is more 'value' play now, which is not befitting a flagship. genesis does the same thing and it's impressive, but most flagship buyers don't want to buy just because it was a 'good deal' they want to know they're driving something special.

the GX/LX are in a funky spot, built as go anywhere vehicles but sold as safe family duty vehicles that have lousy space inside. it's a really confused message.

sounds like the next GX will abandon the urban target, focusing more on rugged off road?

lexus is kind of stuck, but they sell loads of "safe purchase" ES/NX/RX so they're not hurting.

 

LS has always been a value play, thats ingrained in its DNA. I have no problem with that at all. The LS' past sales success shows that flagship buyers do in fact respond to a value proposition if the product fits their needs.

Like I said before there are a lot of LS transplants in the S Class forums on MBWorld and we've all talked about this, I can't think of one of them that wouldn't go back to Lexus if they really offered a competitive option. Thats a shrinking market, so I don't blame Lexus for not really focusing on it but it makes no sense that they don't have proper competitors to the X5/GLE and X7/GLS, those are growth segments and they define the luxury space today...

Not hurting, but a shell of what they once were.

 

It’ll be interesting to see what the new CEO does. I’d hate to see the focus on “no boring cars” ruin the DNA of silky relaxing road cars.

 

That’s about right. Imo GX can be part of this group as well. As inflation/recession grow, some people will have different priorities so buying may shift to Lexus. New coming luxury buyers will be more likely to pick them over other brands where long term reliability and maintenance are their concerns.

They most likely won’t make a drastic change. In any case, you will be fine. Those cars of yours will stay. It’s their bread and butter products.