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Craig - got all your parts in to get the car moving ?
Just as of this afternoon, yes. The PS pump pulley finally came in. This is the second one I ordered-- all this time the one from Japan still hadn't shipped. I only got a tracking number notification on that going out from Osaka last night. Go figure I did place my order well before the week-long Obon holiday when they said they would be closed during that time but it must have processed just a bit too late to have avoided that window.
Oh well. Now I have a spare new pulley
I also picked up an MVP/PHR "Max Air Box" which also just arrived. I ordered it minus the normally included K&N air filter since I already have the 57-9004 model for CARB compliance. That should keep the engine bay heat somewhat isolated from the K&N cone filter. It's designed for MKIV TT's but should fit in an SC and work with the hood.
To do now:
--Replace the PS pump and pulley with the new parts
--Drain and replace the clutch slave cylinder, fill the reservoir with DOT3 and start bleeding it of air several times (not looking forward to this)
--Install the MVP intake filter isolator box
--diagnose why the driver's side headlight is not coming on (maybe the HID ballast was upset in reassembly)
--double check my wires for the MAF sensor and possibly swap in the other one to determine if the one I was using was failing
All but one of the lingering issues are now fixed and the engine runs fine now:
--Both headlights work again (apparently the same chassis ground for the driver's side HID ballast cannot be shared with the ground wire for the auxiliary electric fan relay on the Mishimoto controller).
--No more CEL from the TT MAF sensor any longer.
--I replaced the GTE water pump upper bypass pipe with a brand new pipe and gasket-- no more leaks there!
--The new PS pump no longer makes any noise after some cranking of the wheel back and forth and topping off. Thank you Gerry and Ali!!
However the car cannot be and has not been driven since the transmission still won't go into gear with the engine on.
I did go more in depth and attempt to adjust the clutch pedal travel but that didn't seem to make any difference. I went out and bought a 10mm flare end wrench to better grip and remove the nut for the R154 slave cylinder hard line and replace the slave with a new Aisin unit. I also managed to find a new R154 clutch slave line and will have that coming in at least as a backup in case I'll need it (I am concerned that one of the 10mm nuts on that hard line may be in danger of rounding/stripping).
However after doing some more research this evening I fear my worst suspicion about the clutch: despite having done my best to identify the correct disc orientation at the time of installation I think I may have gotten incorrect information and may have possibly installed it backwards. After reading this thread post below I consulted my reference image from the installation and I looked over one of my spare R154 OEM discs and I think I may have managed to bungle that up while attempting NOT to bungle it up.
The only other idea I can think of is that you may have the clutch disk facing the wrong way. The thicker spring side should face the transmission.
That was not information I was able to find prior to installing the clutch onto the transmission, bolting it up to the engine and torquing down the pressure plate. The MKIII Supra TSRM did not give a totally clear indication of which way the disc should be facing other than a rudimentary image and few threads online show this in explicit detail.
This thread talks about a "snout" that goes in a certain direction but even looking at my OEM R154 clutch disc I see a "snout" on both sides. It also seems to contradict the information in the quote I posted above about the thicker spring side of the disc: http://www.supramania.com/forum/thre...irection.7852/
And here is the picture I took of my current clutch setup just prior to lining up the transmission in the car a couple of months ago:
Look closely at how this side of the clutch has a slightly raised "platform" section which is part of what holds in the four springs. The other side is mostly flat. If that does not represent a "thicker spring side which should be facing the transmission" then I don't know what does. So I must have installed it wrong.
It should be an easy thing not to get wrong but in my effort to make sure I installed the disc correctly I went off an inaccurate reference image and did the opposite
If so, this would explain the symptoms: transmission goes into gear just fine with the engine off. Bleeding of the clutch hydraulics and topping the fluid improved this and slave cylinder rod travel actuating the clutch fork and moving the pressure plate splines was observed through the inspection plate-- but still the transmission will not go into gear once the engine is on.
It is still possible that my pedal is slightly out of adjustment but after adjusting that I did not feel any difference in the pedal, resting pressure. It also didn't appear to be out of spec when I measured it against the roughtly 6.5" of distance from the firewall as outlined in the SC300 TSRM.
...
If my final issue turns out to be the clutch disc being installed backwards, this is going to be a dealer job to rectify at this point. I'm pretty sure it is and I feel like a complete idiot. Exactly what I was trying to avoid :/ I'd never done a clutch job myself before this so...
In addition to the new Aisin slave cylinder and replacement slave hard line I have already I'm going to order a new set of ARP pressure plate bolts for next week. I had already made an appointment at my local Toyota dealer for next week but it's looking like this will be a full job rather than a simple hydraulic adjustment. I'll get a AAA tow to get it there.
I'm annoyed with myself. Even pulling out the engine wiring harness multiple times to fix some remaining electrical issues is much easier (to me) than pulling out a transmission to do a clutch job in a driveway.
On the bright side, everything else on the swap is working fine now, so overall there's some victory.
That could very likely be it, the picture I think is trying to show the spring pack facing the transmission.. but hard to say for sure.
Alot of pull type transmissions flip the disc around because of the space limitation/pressure plate design, I haven't done it on the r154 yet personally so I can't say 100%.
That's the thing though... I know better now but at the time I was confused because both sides have exposed spring packs and there was no metal stamping or ink stamping that said "front" or "back". Close inspection of the disc shows that one side is slightly raised (the side where the spline sleeve or "snout" is longer) whereas the other is almost flat (the side where the spline sleeve or "snout" is shorter).
Further, in hindsight... and I'm not going to be kind to myself about this blunder... it makes sense if you think about it that if the principle of a clutch disc is to flatly contact the flywheel whenever it is engaged (lifting off the clutch pedal) then it makes little sense for the side of the clutch that faces that flywheel to be the side with a raised area which would impede direct contact with the flywheel surface... not to mention probably impede operation of the system entirely.
I really have no idea why thinking about this logically at the time did not occur to me but for whatever reason it didn't despite my wish at the time to not install the disc incorrectly. In hindsight, the best thing without any correct reference image or the knowledge that the longer snout side (raised side) faces the transmission would have been to look carefully at the mechanism and think through how it is supposed to work before deciding which way to orient the disc on the splines.
Well... it's the first clutch job I've ever done myself. A good if expensive learning experience.
I've made arrangements to get this sorted out next week.
That's the thing though... I know better now but at the time I was confused because both sides have exposed spring packs and there was no metal stamping or ink stamping that said "front" or "back". Close inspection of the disc shows that one side is slightly raised (the side where the spline sleeve or "snout" is longer) whereas the other is almost flat (the side where the spline sleeve or "snout" is shorter).
Further, in hindsight... and I'm not going to be kind to myself about this blunder... it makes sense if you think about it that if the principle of a clutch disc is to flatly contact the flywheel whenever it is engaged (lifting off the clutch pedal) then it makes little sense for the side of the clutch that faces that flywheel to be the side with a raised area which would impede direct contact with the flywheel surface... not to mention probably impede operation of the system entirely.
I really have no idea why thinking about this logically at the time did not occur to me but for whatever reason it didn't despite my wish at the time to not install the disc incorrectly. In hindsight, the best thing without any correct reference image or the knowledge that the longer snout side (raised side) faces the transmission would have been to look carefully at the mechanism and think through how it is supposed to work before deciding which way to orient the disc on the splines.
Well... it's the first clutch job I've ever done myself. A good if expensive learning experience.
I've made arrangements to get this sorted out next week.
Hey Kahn I've been peeking in on your post every week or so and noticed you have come a far ways and done extremely well at diagnosing and fixing different issues, both electrical and mechanical. I'm sorry the clutch installation didn't have enough detail to sort out initially. When doing a repair or installation, that can be extremely stressful when there isn't enough information for guidance, and the fact that a clutch disk could be properly installed both ways without any indication of front and back is just the poop icing on the poop cake. I hope it goes a bit smoother for you after it's fixed, we are all rooting for you man and support your expedition in this project!
Hey dclevs-- thank you very much for the kind words and encouragement! It's been a lot of patient work but honestly I couldn't have done all of this without help and guidance. Gerrb figures pretty heavily there. Many times when I had done all that I could think of and asked for his advice to help he was kind to point me back in the right direction and help figure out what on earth was going on with something
With the clutch disc orientation mistake that I made I actually do think it would have been very easy to have just waited a little longer and asked for advice if I were not entirely sure about that part of the assembly. I was perfectly alert when I did it but it was quite late at night and I was determined to figure it out and get the transmission bolted on that evening. In hindsight I should have waited until the next day and asked when I wasn't 100% sure. The rest of the clutch install though, I am sure was fine as there were plenty of clear instructions available for how to do the rest of it.
I really can't say how many transmission systems can be assembled with the clutch disc in backwards but this would be the case with any Toyota/Aisin R-series transmission (R154, R150/F, R151/F, R155, etc) and probably the very similar Aisin AR5 as well.
The car will get towed over to my local dealer today and this will get sorted out hopefully before the weekend. My ARP pressure plate bolts unfortunately don't arrive until tomorrow so I'm expecting a bit of a wait. I know the head master tech there who will be doing the work so I know it will be in good hands. If I had a much better garage space to work in I'd probably have done this myself by now but I'm happy to have them take care of it since it's the last thing.
My only nagging concern is that I hope the pressure plate wasn't in any way harmed by having the disc in backwards. No wear at all yet on the disc or flywheel though.
Once this is over with and its rolling again I'll drive it for a bit, note the mileage and give it the first oil change and put in more Comp Cams break-in oil. Then I'll drive gently on that until I hit 500 miles before switching to synthetic.
And by the way, I love how your Soarer's new RSP paint job turned out! It looks beautiful! And you drove that car all the way out to Colorado and back no less!
I was hoping to have some daylight in which to roll some video or take a photo or two to commemorate the occasion but for the first time in six months I was able to drive the SC today. It was also the first time ever that I had the chance to drive a 2JZ-GTE engine myself (although I had to keep the revs moderate below 3k or so).
I had installed the clutch disc backwards and this was corrected after a dealer visit (I just wasn't going to do a transmission-out service myself in a narrow driveway).
I drove it up to temperature and then some and then drained the initial break-in oil and filter (that had seen the piston ring seating phase), tightened the drain plug to 27 ft-lbs, got the new oil filter snug and filled a good 5.2 quarts of oil and checked the level to be sure it was good.
Then I took it around town for 27 miles. Let me tell you, even with a non-modified GTE driven gently and kept out of any second turbo boost (kept below 3000-3200rpm) it felt great. No longer was the car requiring me to wind out the engine just to get it up to speed, although I kept my acceleration moderate.
I did notice some issues though:
-- The tach operates most of the time but not all the time. I can hear an electric buzzing in the passenger floorboard that is consistent with the tech's behavior. I suspect that I must need to relocate the ground wire for my MSD tach adapter to a new spot on the chassis.
--A/C operation works sometimes but not always. When not working the A/C light flashes. It's a little different on my Popformance LXCC screen but the same basic function is there. I suspect this may have something to do with the intermittent tach signal affecting the A/C... or it may be something about my Mishimoto aux fan controller being incompatible with the A/C Mag Clutch wire coming from the compressor.
--The speedometer did not always work consistently. I did notice that my YellowBox V4 unit was not lighted and suspect that the Toyota technician did not reconnect it in line with the SC's VSS connector as should be done to have an accurate speedo reading.
But the biggest issue I noticed came after 27 miles of moderate, normal but RPM varied driving below 3,000 RPM:
I am not exactly sure what I am hearing but there is some light clanking sound that may be coming from the transmission area. I really don't know and now I'm concerned that bots may have backed out from the pressure plate or... worse... if this is something internal with the engine. I do not feel like I heard any rod knocking.
I did nothing stupid like suddenly racing the engine at any time since I had left the dealer after the clutch was installed. I didn't just drive the car short distances turning it on and shutting it off either. This was an issue not present when I picked the car up but it was present after 25 of those miles. I had stopped to pick up some groceries and as soon as I got on my way home I noticed that the tach issue wasn't getting much better even though it still worked most of the time. But it was during this driving session that I noticed the sound from what seems to me to be from the clutch or rear engine area.
At first I thought it was just new clutch noise. I am using a Southbend Stage 2 Endurance clutch kit for R154's. Full face organic. The pressure plate bolts installed are ARP's. The flywheel is a new OEM 1JZ-GTE steel unit and the bolts on that are ARP's with Permatex Thread Locker Red applied and torqued to spec in sequence.
The sound is present at idle.
I want to relocate the ground wire for the MSD before driving and I need to see if the Yellowbox V4 is connected or not.
Checked the oil after I got home and where it was 100% full when I had changed it I noticed it was 1/2 full on the dipstick after the driving so I topped it a bit with more Comp Cams 10W-30 Break-In oil.
Will probably have this brought back in to be inspected. That might be as late as Monday. I don't feel comfortable driving it with that noise that wasn't there earlier in the afternoon.
....
All in all I was on Cloud 9 for a few short hours. I finally had my SC back and it was purring like a kitten. Now I'm back in the pits again. At this point I'm pretty much over doing any more major work on the car myself. Some electrical and maintenance, sure, but if this is some kind of major mechanical issue... I'm not keen on doing much about it myself. Kind of burned out unless after all this the car plays nice and allows me to enjoy it and use it, finally.
Apologies for the lack of pictures again, to everyone reading. It was my intention to post some to celebrate the victory.
^^ If it is (and that would better than it coming from elsewhere), what would be causing it? Loosened bolts? It’s not an aftermarket disc and the PP is very, very close in design to stock. I’ve never had an OEM R154 clutch make noise like this.
The ARP pressure plate bolts that were just installed came with Loctite 242 so those shouldn’t been backed out.
What I noticed was that along with the sound my low rpm idle was affected a bit. I tried to determine while driving home if I felt that smooth revving might also be affected but I couldn’t tell exactly since I was already being gentle with the engine’s acceleraton to begin with. And my Gixxer suspension being a little stiff I was also feeling road imperfections at the same time.
The clutch operated without issues during the last drive, however.
I’m going to sort out relocating the ground wire for the MSD before driving again and check the VSS connector next to the trans before driving again. Hearing a clear electrical buzz coming from the passenger floor area that was 100% consistent with the tach working... and that buzz disappearing whenever the tach would stop working... at least tells me that the shared ground that the MSD is on needs to be changed.
Thinking on that circuit... I know that if the tach signal is not there on GTE’s the A/C system will have an issue. Maybe this is why the A/C compressor clutch is not consistently staying on with the A/C light finally flashing.
This might also explain why the aux electric fan circuit wasn’t active with A/C either: if no A/C clutch is working then the A/C Mag Clutch wire will produce no +12V signal and thus any relay/controller’s override wire that Mag Clutch wire is tied into will not trigger the fan.
So apart from the YellowBox V4 looking like it is off and probably not connected as it should be at the transmission, maybe the other electrical stuff all comes down to one badly placed ground wire for that MSD which is getting contaminated by another device’s ground.
This was a mistake I made when initially sharing the Mishimoto fan controller’s ground wire on the same location that my driver’s side HID ballast chassis ground wire went to. Result: no driver’s side headlight... until I moved that aux fan controller ground wire to another chassis location. After making that adjustment... no more problems with that.
I relocated the ground wire for the MSD Tach Adapter. Now there are no more issues with the tachometer after my last drive. Normal tachometer function.
The A/C light still flashes and the compressor clutch still only engages briefly. I suspect that Mag Clutch wire not liking the Mishimoto fan controller override wire, so will disconnect those and see if that solves it.
If so I will install a manual A/C fan switch (unless there is another way to get the fan controller to override to ON whenever the A/C is on).
It rained too much to jack up the car to check the VSS/Yellowbox connectors (no carport at this house). Doing that tomorrow if no rain.
At startup the clatter/flappy noise was not there any longer (!) but the idle was still a tiny bit rough. But the engine revved fine.
There was a front belt squeak noise the source of which wasn't immediately apparent.
At idle the last time I drove and today there was a vibrating noise coming from the K&N intake-- not due to mounting but internal.
I am wondering if my old sequential twin Reed Valve is worn out and leaking/fluttering. I have a new replacement spare Reed Valve and two new gaskets.
Here is a picture of where the Reed Valve is located on the 2JZ-GTE engine just below the top metal vacuum lines over the turbos and right next to the IACV VSV):
.....
The car drives fine after my last drive although I know something is making the idle slightly rough and I can feel it's not 100% smooth while driving but it's not like the engine is breaking up or anything like that while climbing to 3,000 rpm.
But after this drive I no longer suspect the engine bearings or transmission or clutch.
It's something much more minor. I have tried to determine if I feel like I'm hearing the infamous "frog" noise that indicates a bad sequential reed valve. So far I think "maybe".
Here are some good threads from SF covering this Reed Valve "frog noise" symptom. I am not 100% sure that this is my issue but the reed valve on my engine is old and original and was run at 18psi before I used it so it is technically possible that it has worn out:
And this wider reference image of the entire assembly from 97SupraTurbo.com:
Also I read that a bad reed can cause a weird vibrating noise once the car is shut off-- and I did notice something like this as well coming from my K&N cone filter intake after having shut off my ignition.
Overall the slightly rough idle feels as if it's something on the accessory belt... but maybe it is intake air pressure malfunction related.
The car seems okay now overall. I just have these last gremlins to solve and another 470 miles of engine break-in to go.
Even while driving it moderately I can tell an immediate difference between this engine in stock tune and the stock 2JZ-GE. And then there is the very cool muffled whistle of the #1 turbo (I have yet to experience the #2 turbo) and the muffled OEM recirculating blow off valve
I replaced the old Reed Valve and used two new gaskets. Inspecting the old and new ones there did not appear to be much difference between them but I swapped in the new one anyway. While driving there was no appreciable difference.
My A/C is working after having disconnected the A/C Mag Clutch wire that originally came from the MKIV TT body plug. Looking into the schematic it apparently is supposed to go to something called an "A/C Amplifier" on the MKIV Supra. SC300/400/Soarers do not have this kind of control module. So this proves, I think, that this particular wire as Toyota designed it is definitely not a simple +12V trigger wire for a relay the way I had thought it was. I'll install that manual switch for aux cooling fan override ON later.
The VSS connector I will hopefully inspect tomorrow if I have time-- I am pretty sure the YellowBox is disconnected and that my speedo is reading inaccurately right now. Easy to fix that once the car is jacked up enough to get to the transmission.
The main issue at the moment is that the car DRIVES fine but that it definitely has a consistent but rough idle. This roughness is not terrible but is still apparent while driving at any engine speed. It starts rough and stays rough... but consistent and stable always. There is no hesitation or breaking up. It just isn't smooth the way it should be. No CEL codes or anything like that. The plugs are new, coils are new, and igniter is new. I already checked out all the coil pack wires and fixed all bad connections there. I think I will disconnect the battery to reset the ECU and see if this is the same in the ECU's Closed Loop learning mode before consulting the MKIV TT Troubleshooting TSRM. Or maybe try the fuel ecu FP and +B bypass to rule that out.
I still suspect possibly something on the accessory belt drive. I can hear a faint something that sounds like it's near the accessory belt when driving sometimes. And now that I think about it, I never calibrated my main throttle TPS sensor.
Whatever it is, I'll figure it out sooner or later. A solution always presents itself. If there is one very important thing that I have learned from this project and saga, it is to never be surprised at the unexpected or not immediately explainable
Don't feel bad about the clutch disc... I did the same thing in my E36 M3. However, those discs are tapered and if installed backwards prevent you from removing the disc or transmission once tightened. The only solution? I had to cut my bell housing apart to remove the transmission and clutch disc. Then had to source another clutch and transmission. All in all, an awful and embarrassing experience.
Regardless, very excited to hear that this thing is running well and getting sorted out!
Don't feel bad about the clutch disc... I did the same thing in my E36 M3. However, those discs are tapered and if installed backwards prevent you from removing the disc or transmission once tightened. The only solution? I had to cut my bell housing apart to remove the transmission and clutch disc. Then had to source another clutch and transmission. All in all, an awful and embarrassing experience.
Regardless, very excited to hear that this thing is running well and getting sorted out!
Cutting into your bell-housing was the only way to remove the transmission?? I'm sorry... I can only imagine how painful that must have been! I know the BMWs often use integrated bell-housings on the cases of their manual transmissions
In my case with the R154 there was no damage to the transmission or even to the clutch. It just had to be pulled out and put onto the spline the other (correct) way around. Thank you, but I still feel a bit silly having done it wrong but now I know exactly which side is correct at a glance so an expensive but good lesson.
The SC runs OK now but with a rough idle/firing that is consistent (ie: no hesitation or randomness to it) but not exactly where it should be. The problem showed up after 25 miles of moderate driving below 3K RPMS. I have 38 miles on it now. I never ran enough RPM to allow the second turbo to spool or transition over.
Not exactly sure what's causing it yet. I thought it might have been the Reed Valve but after replacing that part the same issue and symptoms are there. I've identified and printed out all eleven ordered test procedures outlined in the MKIV TT Troubleshooting TSRM but will have to wait for several days before going through them all.
The funny thing about it is that once I'd sorted out all the wiring for the coil packs and injectors the engine fired VERY smoothly. There was a one-time CEL code hiccup with the old MAF sensor during the initial piston ring seating for 20mins but even then I was still able to complete the run-in procedure completely. I removed that MAF and tested it but found it was still reading within acceptable OEM resistance values. That CEL code referring to the MAF sensor (IAT) never repeated itself but it was otherwise firing smoothly while I drove around town through many surface streets and stoplights for 25 miles. I had finally stopped and shut the car off to pick up groceries and that's when I noticed the idle issue.
Overall though the SC is in remarkably in good shape now! It needs a couple more electrical tweaks (checking the VSS/Yellowbox harness, wiring in an aux electric fan override switch) but it's pretty much good to go except for the idle/rough firing issue. Also, I keep forgetting that I have not done any calibration to the main TPS sensor but I don't think that sensor being mis-calibrated can cause this condition.
Another thing that is very apparent to me now: while a 4.272:1 rear end is great for NA it is not a good fit for this GTE engine. It works just fine and I'm used to how quickly the revs build in 1st and 2nd but given this new powerband the advantages of it that were ideal before turbos are all nullified with boost. I knew this from past research but now I can feel firsthand exactly why 4.27's are a bit much with boost. The 3.76 TT Auto gears need to go back in as soon as I can afford the diff rebuild.
That is next on my list to finish prepping for you once I am back from L.A. That GE block is still on the stand in the garage. I just have to remove the cams and head and secure it with plastic wrap to seal it up from the air. I am still leaning on trailering it or something else. Getting the short block to you is its own priority. I'm excited for what you'll do with it!
The rear diff gear rebuild I can't pull the trigger on right now but I will schedule them once I can. Jared knows that will be for my next visit with him. I still have to order the 200mm diff rebuild parts kit from DM. I just spent money on a brand new LH door hinge from Osaka since mine is clicky-clacky. Have to wait on the rest for now. I know we can have those hinges rebuilt by at least two specialists (one located in Australia) but this seemed like the best way to address my issue sooner rather than later with little downtime. When I'm ready I'll take that LH hinge to be painted and installed by a local body shop that I've got a good relationship with. I don't want to get into suspending a 90+ lb door by myself, haha!
For now, I'm mostly diverted away from the SC again. I'm going to try to do a little more on it today if there is time. That idle/roughness issue is annoying to just show up but I'll get to the bottom of it.
But do not worry about the 2JZ-GE block. That is coming to you soon Gerry
08-17-18, 01:01 PM
I did place my order well before the week-long Obon holiday when they said they would be closed during that time but it must have processed just a bit too late to have avoided that window.
It's been a lot of patient work but honestly I couldn't have done all of this without help and guidance. Gerrb figures pretty heavily there. Many times when I had done all that I could think of and asked for his advice to help he was kind to point me back in the right direction and help figure out what on earth was going on with something 
Cutting into your bell-housing was the only way to remove the transmission?? I'm sorry... I can only imagine how painful that must have been! I know the BMWs often use integrated bell-housings on the cases of their manual transmissions 