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Thanks for the links. Good to know that they are available used at a fairly cheap price.
I've spent a good portion of this afternoon reading past CL threads on intake pipes for both the 2IS and 3IS. I've come to the conclusion that while the 3IS F-Sport intake pipe will likely sound nicer with the built-in sound generator, I will very likely be sacrificing a small bit of horsepower if I replaced the JoeZ intake pipe (which has a smooth surface to increase the speed of airflow) with the accordion design of the 3IS F-Sport pipe (which will re-introduce turbulence and reduce airflow).
I also found an old post from CL member caymandive with regards to an article from Sport Compact Car which fits this discussion on whether or not a rubber intake pipe is superior to an aftermarket metal pipe with regards to heat soak and potential loss of HP:
Originally Posted by caymandive
"Some will claim that heat from the engine compartment will be transferred through the pipe of the intake system and into the air passing through the pipe, but this is not true. Testing by Sport Compact Car showed negligible change in intake temperature between where it enters the filter and when it passes through the throttlebody. Their conclusion was that the air is passing through the pipe at a high enough speed that it does not have time to pick up any heat from the pipe itself. Further evidence of this is the fact that the Ice Man brand intake system, made of heat insulating PVC plastic, tested at 9 HP while the AEM brand intake system, made of heat conducting aluminum, tested at 12.9 HP. The conclusion is clear that the design of the intake system is more important than what type of pipe is used to make the intake system"
Thanks for the links. Good to know that they are available used at a fairly cheap price.
I've spent a good portion of this afternoon reading past CL threads on intake pipes for both the 2IS and 3IS. I've come to the conclusion that while the 3IS F-Sport intake pipe will likely sound nicer with the built-in sound generator, I will very likely be sacrificing a small bit of horsepower if I replaced the JoeZ intake pipe (which has a smooth surface to increase the speed of airflow) with the accordion design of the 3IS F-Sport pipe (which will re-introduce turbulence and reduce airflow).
I also found an old post from CL member caymandive with regards to an article from Sport Compact Car which fits this discussion on whether or not a rubber intake pipe is superior to an aftermarket metal pipe with regards to heat soak and potential loss of HP:
That sounds about right the flow would be too fast. In regards about my issues. I think I solved all my problems on the bogging issues. I had the Apexi throttle controller and it went south after a year or so. It would make the car feel really bogged on acceleration, and sometimes the car wanted to stall. I removed it a few weeks back and the car instantly felt great again. The issues I just had now with the 3IS pipe. Is I didn't clamp it well to the stock air box. Since I have an aftermarket box it's a little flimsy compared to the OEM one. Im assuming it was sucking in unmetered air by the MAF sensor. The car now definitely picks up great with the 3" pipe. For me it's still a plus because it's really light compared to the stock rubber hose. The sound is more amplified also than before with my Fsport box mod.
That sounds about right the flow would be too fast. In regards about my issues. I think I solved all my problems on the bogging issues. I had the Apexi throttle controller and it went south after a year or so. It would make the car feel really bogged on acceleration, and sometimes the car wanted to stall. I removed it a few weeks back and the car instantly felt great again. The issues I just had now with the 3IS pipe. Is I didn't clamp it well to the stock air box. Since I have an aftermarket box it's a little flimsy compared to the OEM one. Im assuming it was sucking in unmetered air by the MAF sensor. The car now definitely picks up great with the 3" pipe. For me it's still a plus because it's really light compared to the stock rubber hose. The sound is more amplified also than before with my Fsport box mod.
Good to hear that you resolved your throttle lag issue. I did some more research regarding the 3IS350 sound generator and another CL member "plankton" had built the intake setup that I think I would be highly interested in as it combines a 3.5" smooth intake pipe with the OEM F-Sport sound generator. It looks like I could have my cake and eat it too!
Originally Posted by plankton07
I took the 4GS intake from HPS and coupled it with the OEM sound generator with the F Sport lower box.
End result... I'm really happy
Yes I totally forgot the HPS pipe is 3.5" with the FSport option to retain the Sound Generator. Please post a video of the sound if you ever decide to do it.
Yes I totally forgot the HPS pipe is 3.5" with the FSport option to retain the Sound Generator. Please post a video of the sound if you ever decide to do it.
Well.....step one of this future mod has been completed as I just placed an order on eBay for a used 3IS350 F-Sport intake with the sound generator.
Once it arrives next week, I plan on tinkering around with more datalogs to do some back-to-back MAF g/s comparisons between the JoeZ intake with its smooth piping surface vs the 3IS F-Sport Intake which has a slightly larger diameter.
To those reading this, would the OEM sound generator from the 3IS F-Sport intake pipe cause a potential power loss with some of the intake air being diverted through a second path on the pipe instead of directly toward the throttle body? I tried finding the answers on the forums but the answer wasn't clear.
I tried with a blow dryer it seems the air just travels straight. There is not much deviation. I have a 3IS pipe with no resonator. As you can see in my pics I was going to just plug it up and use it. I decided to buy the non resonated pipe instead.
I had just sold my other FSport sound generator, because I thought it was my cause for bogging issues. If yours sounds even better with your Fbox mod. I'll just buy the missing pieces and rebuild my extra pipe back up.
From reviewing the patent of the intake sound generator ( https://patents.google.com/patent/US8322486 ), it's essentially an enclosed chamber with a diaphragm that resonates sound.
I don't suspect that there would be any noticeable power loss with this additional duct.
Well.....step one of this future mod has been completed as I just placed an order on eBay for a used 3IS350 F-Sport intake with the sound generator.
Once it arrives next week, I plan on tinkering around with more datalogs to do some back-to-back MAF g/s comparisons between the JoeZ intake with its smooth piping surface vs the 3IS F-Sport Intake which has a slightly larger diameter.
To those reading this, would the OEM sound generator from the 3IS F-Sport intake pipe cause a potential power loss with some of the intake air being diverted through a second path on the pipe instead of directly toward the throttle body? I tried finding the answers on the forums but the answer wasn't clear.
Would the ribs on the pipe actually impede air flow? Isn't it just like flex hose to prevent the engine from snapping the hose from the air box?
Would the ribs on the pipe actually impede air flow? Isn't it just like flex hose to prevent the engine from snapping the hose from the air box?
Not sure. My initial thought is that any sort of accordion/ribbed design on the pipe would be less ideal for maximizing airflow than a completely smooth surface. I did notice that for the 3IS version of the F-Sport Intake system (upper box/pipe/filter), the coupler used is also a ribbed design so perhaps there is no impact to performance:
A little late to the game but the sound pipe port really doesn't impact flow...
That dead end pipe of generator has a pressure wave present at its port but the air in the tube is essentially stalled and not moving so it has very little impact.
I'm just saying think in terms of layers. The inside ID of the pipe, intake plenum, intake runner has air attached to it that is effectively stationary at the molecule layer.
The next layers have air the bound to the stationary layer and there is friction between the stationary air and the moving air up until a point.
That said although a larger runner may make more peak HP if could impact throttle response and torque. Higher velocity can be a good thing for throttle response and daily driving.
^^ That topic puzzles me when you look at yoda sizing so many of 250 & 350 exhaust components the same. It simply can't be ideal for both!
The intake runners themselves can change how/where power is made, but the intake tube is before the throttle body and has less of an effect. Ideally what you want is for the pressure in the plenum to meet or exceed atmospheric pressure when the throttle body is open, anything less is leaving power on the table. The main bottlenecks on the intake side of our cars is the manifold itself and the stock air box. I have tried a 3.5" intake and it gave negligibly better airflow over a 3" intake. What we really need is a performance oriented intake manifold.
I'm going to say it varies based MAF sensor flow, TPS, RPM, and vacuum. Likely not just throttle position or any one item.
When cold it's likely always closed unless romped on. All speculation on my part tho...
My spare intake doesn't have a secondary butterfly setup, I believe that's only for the IS250.
Red, I was wondering if you could test something for me. Could you try a few 30-60 pulls and see what torque reports for ? One set rolling out from first and the other starting in second.
My spare intake doesn't have a secondary butterfly setup, I believe that's only for the IS250.
Oh yeah, I did find a few pics of a 350 lower half having no flaps. So in that case, I wonder if a longer runner aftermarket IM tied into the factory TB could be beneficial. Hmmmmm
08-08-18, 12:31 PM
