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Done a road trip from FL to CA during this past month so for those who have sent me a PM , I haven't responded and those calling me didn't answer cause most of the places where pure wilderness and no phone signal nor good internet access, therefore I apologize . On this particular road trip, I have concentrated on seeing Nature's Beauty of AZ , NV , UT and CO ... visiting around 28 National and State Parks and going through all Scenic Byways I can go through. Though UT among those 4 states is the best place for me to marvel at God's Creation, just stunning and marvelous place to enjoy nature's beauty though devoid of life's comfort and technology , CO has very interesting sceneries and roads where you can bring and test your cars. All members here from CO are lucky to have places they can drive their cars to like Pike's Peak , Mt. Evans , Trail Ridge Road around Rocky Mountain National Park and the Independence Pass coming from Aspen and heading to Denver plus the Rim Rock Drive at the Colorado National Monument . Even I-70 from Denver (East) to Grand Junction (West) of CO has magnificent scenery like it going through Glenwood Canyon and through up , down and winding roads from 7000' to 11200' above sea level and going through one of the longest and highest mountain tunnel which is 1.7 mile long (Einsenhower / Johnson Tunnel) .
I have every minute of front and rear dash cam videos of my road trip from FL to CA but let me share the last 14 miles before the peak of Mt. Evans (highest paved road in North America) and 14 miles going down from its peak here . Good place to test your Lexus and skills in driving . There is no room for mistake. Pike's peak was kinda dangerous too since it has steeper roads though only 6 miles before and from the Peak are really dangerous plus it actually has wider roads than Mt. Evans. Trail Ridge Road around RMNP , Independence pass near Aspen and Rim Rock Drive of the Colorado National Monument had some dangerous areas too but not as bad as Mt. Evans and Pike's Peak.
For all those from UT and CO on this forum ... marvelous places you have there. Though I realize probably not much members here from UT since damn internet access is horrible to non existence all over the places in UT I went through and have visited the most parks and covered a lot of roads from that state . For my buddies on this forum from CO, if you haven't tried those roads I mentioned here .. try them and you will be rewarded with stunning scenery up there.
Album for the dangerous parts of the road while going up and down Mt. Evans... videos with gps notations are from the front dash cam and those without are from the rear dash cam
Road is wider than Mt. Evans but steeper so for me it is a lot safer . It gives you an illusion that it is higher but is not . There are no mountains closeby as high that's why. Just leave your speed demons at the foothills of these mountains and follow the speed limits and you will be fine. Watching these videos , I realize that I was always above the speed limits. Now I know why my wife kept telling me to slow down especially at Mt. Evans .
They have car racing up and down this mountain in some occasions.
With power comes heat , since I have installed 2 x 30 rows and 1 x 19 rows transmission coolers for my auto trans on my present daily driver , it easily handles the 940rwhp / 760ft.lbs thrown on her without getting its temp very high .
the 2 x 30 rows are behind the intercooler
the 19 row is on the passenger opening duct
I even installed 7" pull fans on each of the 30 rows cooler
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Last week I went for a 280 miles one way trip with a lot of spirited driving on not so busy inter states roads . There was a point while going through Columbus GA I went through a bad traffic mid afternoon because of an accident. Got stucked probably more than two hours barely moving and I found out a problem on my cooling system.
Well , there was no problem on the cooling system of my transmission , engine coolant (with an aftermarket radiator) , engine oil and power steering oil . They handled the spirited driving and traffic really good. Keep in mind I have also coolers for those
Since there was no gush of air flowing from the front which you get when a car is moving , my damn AC system started blowing hot air . There is nothing wrong with my AC system except when I got stucked into that traffic , all the heat form the oil coolers (with pull fans) was being pushed into the condenser/radiator thus the condenser is not able to convert the hot gas (compressed freon) coming from the compressor into liquid. Meaning it is not able to do its job of cooling that hot gas so it liquifies before it goes into your receiver / dryer then to your expansion valve / evaporator so that your AC blower could blow cold air .
So it is time to rethink and reposition all my oil coolers so I don't run into an AC problem again when am stucked in a non moving traffic for a long time. I already secured a supra mkiv shroud with twin auxiliary fans and I want to install a 10" pusher fan in front of the condenser then fabricate some ducting to push fresh air into the condenser / radiator. Having a damn huge FMIC doesn't allow a lot of fresh air to get into the condenser and radiator and worse if you have 2" thick transmission coolers in between. Those transmission coolers did their job making my transmission always happy but not me on a long and bad traffic .
after church today decided to go into demolition mode so I can relocate the oil coolers , install the shroud with twin aux fan and get my daily driver back into service even if I am still waiting for my AC condenser pusher fan. Anyway that will be easiy to install later. I can get the wiring ready so it is plug and play !
I love how all the various coolers are set up on this car, Gerry. Although now I see it has been causing you problems so it has to change a bit.
You know I could always hook you up with a re-cored 400-ish CFM MKIV/Soarer style SMIC like mine in place of the front mount IC. All you'd have to do is turn down the boost a a fair bit, hahaha ;D
But your dilemma has me thinking about where else you could put some of your coolers. My first thought immediately goes to the front bumper intakes just after each fog lamp opening (if you have a 97+ style bumper). It would add more plumbing which might not be ideal but you could put one trans cooler on each side and have maximum air flow right onto them unimpeded.
Not sure if your remote oil cooler or a PS cooler are in locations that you feel are no longer ideal. Seems those would be smaller coolers and thus easier to deal with behind your FMIC?
The MKIV TT twin fan system should help a lot with your A/C. I even had the same issue during a week long heat wave back in L.A. last year with my stock GE engine-- no issues with the A/C system by that point but still it was so hot sitting in traffic that I got warm air on some days. I had the early MKIV TT single aux fan by that time but I had not wired it up yet.
I wish I had because it was easy to do once I realized I did not have to use any factory wiring to do it (other than the A/C mag clutch trigger wire... or just a manual switch for that trigger override). I really like Mishimoto's universal aux fan kit that I used. I could put the coolant temp sensor for it in the stock MKIV TT radiator bung with an Earls adapter and wire in the stock A/C mag clutch trigger wire from the engine harness.
I am not sure what it is set to since I haven't run my engine much but Mishimoto's integrated controller w/relay is adjustable. It should handle running both those OEM heavy duty cycle fans at the same time with its fusing and relay load. I think it's rated for 25A max load.
.....
And the picture of your FMIC with the water spray ring has me thinking about that again. Does the water misting spray really help to cool the intake charge even a little on hot days? I know that in theory it's most effective if the very fine water mist vaporizes almost immediately after contact with the hot metal IC fins thus transferring some of the surface heat from the aluminum to the water droplets. But maybe with a lot of humidity on some days this is less effective? I don't know. They still use these IC misting systems on competition rally cars a lot. And then the CO2 based cooling mist systems are going to do even more.
I'd still like to get a small misting ring to fit onto the front of my SMIC but not sure where to mount the water reservoir.
For at least some of your extra coolers maybe you can make use of those side bumper ducts if there is space before the IC piping?
Craig - you know when you get accustom to having at least 800rwhp as a daily driver , it will be tough to lower that boost to use a stock supra FMIC . You don't use all that power on the streets but having the knowledge that what you are driving will back up your ego anytime is something hard to let go if you can keep it and use it daily. At this point , just trying to get it as reliable as it can be for a daily driver and fixing all these small things that I find . If it is only me going somewhere now , I use this car . Otherwise something else since you know my wife will not ride in any of my SCs or MKIVs.
If you want to spray water and have that mist .. just get a spray bar and spray from top front of intercooler just like what I believe Lawrence (93twnturbo) did on his vvti SC. You can just use your windshield fluid container / pump but it won't be as effective as the lower cooling effects of N2O and CO2. I didn't spend a single cent on those inter-cooler spray setups so decided I might as well use them and will be nice to have , use them on a need to use basis .
For this daily driver I have CO2 on this single loop while on the other SC car with a higher hp has the double loop , I use N2O to spray the TitanMotorSports Intercooler on that car since I also spray the engine with Nitrous through the direct port nitrous plumbing on each runner . Having two bottles on that car , I wanted to make sure I don't accidentally connect a CO2 bottle on the direct port nitrous for the engine that's why I just use Nitrous for both sprayer and engine .
Titan Motor Sports 5 row intercooler has double loop for N2O spray. This dang intercooler is huge !
For the coolers , at present I have a 19 row cooler near the fog light bumper opening and the 16 / 13 row coolers for the oil and ps at the driver side fog light bumper opening. I am moving the two 30 rows trans coolers with fans ... one on each side opening of the bumper since they are huge .. 13x10x2" ... 4" thick with their fans. There is enough space there for them since this SC has the auto couture style bumper. They will get plenty of incoming air from the opening near the fog lights. What I need to do is find a place for the 19 , 16 and 13 row coolers. They are smaller so they will be easier to find a place without impeding the air flow that is needed by the condenser .
here is one of the 30 rows cooler with its fan on the passenger side as seen from above with head light taken out. It will get all the air from that air duct near the fog light. And if there need be , the fans come on at a certain temperature of the transmission fluid. On the transmission fluid filter kit , I have a sensor to measure the temp of trans fluid coming out from the trans before it hits the first cooler. So depending on that temperature I get the two 30 rows cooler fans to come on. The small 19 row which is in series to those two 30 rows do not have any fan.
For the AC Condenser / radiator , pretty sure the dual aux fan will help . I have no problem on cooling the radiator though. Its the condenser that needs help. So on top of those dual aux fan on the shroud , I am installing a 10" fan in front of the condenser that would turn on when needed. I would get a fan with less blades like 4 or 6 so it doesn't impede the flow of air coming from the front. If you notice, most auxiliary condenser fans installed in front of the condenser have fewer blades , that is , to lessen impedance to the incoming air flow when the fan is not on. I have a 250 amp alternator on this car so even if all the damn electric fans are on with lights, aftermarket audio system and AC , I should not have a problem.
Finally bolted one of the 30 rows transmission cooler with a fan on the passenger side together with the trans fluid filter and its sensors. They can take advantage of the air coming from the passenger side air duct of the front bumper. If there need be , its fan can be activated based on the trans fluid temperature .
Cool set up, and loving the placement changes. I'll be curious how it will affect the AC's effectiveness.
As for those CO roads, we're some lucky SOB's out here with plenty of mountain roads to tear up. Granted, the high altitudes don't do us NA guys any favors.
Cool set up, and loving the placement changes. I'll be curious how it will affect the AC's effectiveness.
As for those CO roads, we're some lucky SOB's out here with plenty of mountain roads to tear up. Granted, the high altitudes don't do us NA guys any favors.
Thanks !
True , having traversed and driven through every famous place in CO this past month , I can say that it is indeed a place whose every road , every one need to explore. I still have one road I need to go through in the future . I heard going through 3 moutain pass in that highway is pretty ... the Million Dollar Highway (550) . I will do that , go through it when we go for a road trip to Yellowstone (WY) , Glacier National Park (MT) and to the Olympic National Park (WA) sometime in the future. Then I can say I have passed through every road in CO with the best sceneries .
Allow me to post an album here of I-70 through Glenwood Canyons in your state ... it is pretty . One of my favourites that pictures or videos do not even do justice when you see that canyon highway in person. The dash cam videos start somewhere at the middle of the album.
Got my 3 transmission coolers and 1 engine cooler installed.
From transmission , fluid flows to the filter where fluid is cleaned / filtered and temperature taken by the sensors to be used by my transmission temperature gauge and my ProEFI ECU for fail safe and automatically turning on and off the trans cooler fans.
From the filter it goes to the 30 row cooler at the driver side air duct
Once it has cooled down from the left 30 row cooler , It then goes to the 19 row cooler at the top center of the bumper where the front grille is for further cooling . Planning to do some ducting here so the air from the grille will be concentrated and be spread out on the face of the cooler that is why I slanted the installation of the cooler.
to cool down the transmission fluid more if there need be , it then goes to the passenger side 30 row cooler before it goes back to the transmission . Pull fans on the two 30 row coolers automatically switches to on and off depending on the trans fluid temperature monitored by the ECU.
Engine Oil cooler is on the driver side air duct . What ever air coming from the driver side bumper air duct that bounces around will also get into that 16 row engine oil cooler . Since the transmission oil cooler on that side has a fan , it can take advantage of it too . I just need to add two more brackets in between the trans and engine oil coolers to keep them firm in place as one.
The only cooler I need to install is for the power steering. I don't go to the road course nor at the drag strip so I don't really need to have a huge Power Steering cooler just like what I just took out . Now that the space in between the inter-cooler and condenser is free , I will insert a tube cooler or a small cooler for my power steering in there so they don't block the air coming from front. I will try to decide which among these I will use.... probably the tube cooler since it does block less air .
Now I have the opposite problem .. .too cold for the trans fluid . Even after an hour of driving in a stop and go traffic , trans fluid temperature doesn't reach 150F and above . Not good cause the transmission won't work right because of the viscosity of its fluid, Big coolers and air gushing from the air ducts and grille does a good job of cooling the fluid but it has to be between 170-210F for a happy transmission . Cooler fans didn't even have the chance to cycle on and off since the ProEFI ECU has to see 195F to turn them ON and 175F to turn them OFF
The rest of the fluids ...engine oil , power steering fluid, coolant are at the lower end of their operating temp spectrum which is where I want them plus the air coming out of the AC is now like artic freeze air at the hottest time of the day while it is summer .
I would have to add a Mocal Thermostatic Sandwhich Plate (on that remote trans filter adapter) with a 180F degree thermostat just like what I have on my engine block for my engine oil cooler.
This Mocal Plate only allows my engine oil to go through the cooler if it is 180F and above and this is exactly what I need for my transmission fluid ... for it to warm up to 180 before heading through the trans coolers so my transmission always operate at the right temperature but at the lower end of the operating temp spectrum.
Decided to make a few more adjustments and installs so I have a lesser probability of having any problem on my AC cooling the passengers and all cooling systems for engine coolant and oil , trans fluid and PS fluid again unless something breaks.
Had to move the 19 row trans fluid that is located at the bumper center grille to accomodate my coolant reservoir which is also very important for relieving pressure then pushing and retrieving coolant to and from the reservoir.
I then made sure that my AC Condenser push fan and two Supra MKIV pull fans where working as soon as the coolant temp gets into the 185F .
PUSH FAN
Top Aux Pull Fan
Bottom Aux Pull Fan
I wanted to get the Z30 under covers but am afraid the front wont fit the way I want it since I have the Auto Couture Style Front Bumper plus the louvers for air redirection are on top or inside . I prefer the louvers to be pointing front downwards so it scoops the incoming air and redirect it to the AC Condenser . There is a metals supermarket near me so what I will do is just buy a thick metal sheet and make my own for all the four ... front , left and right with the louvers designed the way I want and the rear or bottom engine cover . Then still need to do some ducting to direct fresh air to where it is needed.
Craig - you know when you get accustom to having at least 800rwhp as a daily driver , it will be tough to lower that boost to use a stock supra FMIC . You don't use all that power on the streets but having the knowledge that what you are driving will back up your ego anytime is something hard to let go if you can keep it and use it daily. At this point , just trying to get it as reliable as it can be for a daily driver and fixing all these small things that I find . If it is only me going somewhere now , I use this car . Otherwise something else since you know my wife will not ride in any of my SCs or MKIVs.
Haha! Yes, I know and I was only kidding with you I know that feeling, although not with 800whp I'll admit. Not yet anyway, lol.
I know you like your E320 Benz also but this one I thought was already a daily driver car also. You've had it well sorted already even before this, I thought. Nice and smooth riding SC that looks mostly stock to the untrained eye
Originally Posted by gerrb
If you want to spray water and have that mist .. just get a spray bar and spray from top front of intercooler just like what I believe Lawrence (93twnturbo) did on his vvti SC. You can just use your windshield fluid container / pump but it won't be as effective as the lower cooling effects of N2O and CO2. I didn't spend a single cent on those inter-cooler spray setups so decided I might as well use them and will be nice to have , use them on a need to use basis .
For this daily driver I have CO2 on this single loop while on the other SC car with a higher hp has the double loop , I use N2O to spray the TitanMotorSports Intercooler on that car since I also spray the engine with Nitrous through the direct port nitrous plumbing on each runner . Having two bottles on that car , I wanted to make sure I don't accidentally connect a CO2 bottle on the direct port nitrous for the engine that's why I just use Nitrous for both sprayer and engine .
Titan Motor Sports 5 row intercooler has double loop for N2O spray. This dang intercooler is huge !
Hmm. This gives me some more to think about. You've definitely got very good reasons for the running the N20 spray with your power level. Even if I were to go from stock boost/fuel to BPU I know that the upgraded SMIC I have will be efficient (at my power level) mounted in the stock location. It's really heat soak in traffic that I'm thinking of trying this with.
But it's true that CO2 (or N20) spraying from the bar would do more than just fine water mist. Like the H3R HalGuard fire extinguisher I now have, what concerns me is how well that or a CO2 bottle will handle hot outside and in-cabin temperatures on extremely hot days if you just leave them in the car. My H3R extinguisher for instance says not to leave anywhere the temperature will be 120F or more.
Similar warnings must be written on charged CO2 or N20 bottles, right?
I tried looking up 93TwinTurbo's posts but I can't find him listed here. Still, I have found a couple of IC water mist bars that fit the small dimensions of the upgraded Soarer IC in my car. From there I just need to decide what system to use.
Originally Posted by gerrb
For the coolers , at present I have a 19 row cooler near the fog light bumper opening and the 16 / 13 row coolers for the oil and ps at the driver side fog light bumper opening. I am moving the two 30 rows trans coolers with fans ... one on each side opening of the bumper since they are huge .. 13x10x2" ... 4" thick with their fans. There is enough space there for them since this SC has the auto couture style bumper. They will get plenty of incoming air from the opening near the fog lights. What I need to do is find a place for the 19 , 16 and 13 row coolers. They are smaller so they will be easier to find a place without impeding the air flow that is needed by the condenser .
here is one of the 30 rows cooler with its fan on the passenger side as seen from above with head light taken out. It will get all the air from that air duct near the fog light. And if there need be , the fans come on at a certain temperature of the transmission fluid. On the transmission fluid filter kit , I have a sensor to measure the temp of trans fluid coming out from the trans before it hits the first cooler. So depending on that temperature I get the two 30 rows cooler fans to come on. The small 19 row which is in series to those two 30 rows do not have any fan.
You do have more room with that bumper but the space constraints still look challenging. I saw your later post further down where you solved the mounting but found that the trans coolers w/filter actually work far too well! The temperature switched sandwich plate is interesting. There is always some specialized aftermarket part to learn about that solves unique problems!
What I don't understand yet is how, after the thermal switch reaches a high enough temperature to allow trans oil to flow through the trans coolers and filter, if that system cools so well that you can't reach 180F without the thermally switched sandwich plate then what is to stop the transmission temps from being lowered too much all over again?
Thinking about this... what I imagine must happen is that your thermally switched sandwich plate must once again close the connection to the coolers and filter once the temps get back down to 150F or so. When you said you drove around a lot and still couldn't get the auto trans up to operating temperature you meant with normal and moderate driving, right? Theoretically if you were to have driven the SC harder to work the transmission more then that temperature would have come up to 150F or higher, correct?
So this thermally switched cooling system you have is to allow you have the extra cooling whenever you DO need it for demanding load on the transmission but to keep it blocked off under normal driving conditions.
It's a really cool setup the more I think about how you've done this.
Originally Posted by gerrb
For the AC Condenser / radiator , pretty sure the dual aux fan will help . I have no problem on cooling the radiator though. Its the condenser that needs help. So on top of those dual aux fan on the shroud , I am installing a 10" fan in front of the condenser that would turn on when needed. I would get a fan with less blades like 4 or 6 so it doesn't impede the flow of air coming from the front. If you notice, most auxiliary condenser fans installed in front of the condenser have fewer blades , that is , to lessen impedance to the incoming air flow when the fan is not on. I have a 250 amp alternator on this car so even if all the damn electric fans are on with lights, aftermarket audio system and AC , I should not have a problem.
With this additional change I know your A/C will be blowing cold all the time now (as you proved with your update below this post I'm quoting from)!
You're making me wonder two things now:
1) Since I have the 1993-1995 TT single aux fan I and I know that TT engine bays get very hot, especially during heat waves, I wonder if I should also consider sourcing the twin fan shroud and dual OEM TT fans as well. I don't know how many amps the two vs one of those OEM fans draw to work with a controller and relay.
2) Maybe if trying this the 90-amp TT alternator that I have installed in my SC cannot be considered to be sufficient. You have a 250-amp upgraded alt to run everything after all.
The entire cooling system in your daily 940whp GTE Auto is so thorough that I can't imagine you will have any overheat issues now. Not even with your power steering.
Speaking of which, that's on my list to upgrade as well so I am curious to see what PS cooler you end up using and where and how you will mount it. I have two coolers in boxes right now: a small Derale 13212 cooler kit and a Hayden 678 cooler kit. I haven't decided if either one is what I will use as a PS cooler. A mount has to be fabricated and the stock SC metal cooler lines. I saw you looking at the SC400 hydrofan cooler that mounts in the stock location. Are you leaning towards just that for your power steering? It's very convenient but do you think it's enough?
I wanted to get the Z30 under covers but am afraid the front wont fit the way I want it since I have the Auto Couture Style Front Bumper plus the louvers for air redirection are on top or inside . I prefer the louvers to be pointing front downwards so it scoops the incoming air and redirect it to the AC Condenser . There is a metals supermarket near me so what I will do is just buy a thick metal sheet and make my own for all the four ... front , left and right with the louvers designed the way I want and the rear or bottom engine cover . Then still need to do some ducting to direct fresh air to where it is needed.
Gerry, how are the Z30 under-covers different from the ones that come on the US/Canadian SC's? Are you talking about the right and left plastic side covers where the fog lamps are or do you mean the big front and center under cover below the radiator?
I just haven't looked closely at how our stock plastic under covers are formed but I just assumed the vents in them are angled to scoop air in as the car moves forward.
If the SC300/400 got a cover that doesn't have that louver scoop angle while the Soarers got a totally different under cover that does have this feature... I'm confused at why Toyota didn't think that both cars could benefit from such a design.... or of the cost benefits of just using one under-cover design for both markets
If you make your own metal louvered under-cover you might as well match it with one of those covers for the under-engine area that is on the JZZ30 website. Unless you make one of those too ;D
07-13-18, 07:24 AM
. There is no room for mistake. Pike's peak was kinda dangerous too since it has steeper roads though only 6 miles before and from the Peak are really dangerous plus it actually has wider roads than Mt. Evans. Trail Ridge Road around RMNP , Independence pass near Aspen and Rim Rock Drive of the Colorado National Monument had some dangerous areas too but not as bad as Mt. Evans and Pike's Peak.
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I know that feeling, although not with 800whp I'll admit. Not yet anyway, lol.