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The stock JDM 2jzgte ECU (whether it is VVTi or non VTTi) supports high impedance injectors. 440 cc injectors which means at 100% injector duty that is around 440rwhp at the base fuel pressure of 43.5psi . If you raise up the base fuel pressure that means you can go a bit higher that 440rwhp . I am usually stick with the base fuel pressure and always wanted a buffer meaning do not maximize injector duty so getting lean wouldn't be much an issue. You don't want to get lean while boosting . KABOOM will be what your engine will get into if you get lean .
Exactly the reason I said with the stock ECU , you can easily be at 420rwhp which is less than 100% injector duty for the 440cc injectors at 43.5 base fuel pressure. With that power level , you don't need any piggy back ... just plain stock ECU. The most is you might want to defeat the speed limit and boost limit if you want to get into that 420rwhp for which there are ways / small gadgets you can use.
Ahh i see what you're saying. I figured you must have been talking about a JDM ecu. I have a feeling I'll either go that route, or perhaps nut up and buy a used standalone system or something of the like. I'm really kicking myself for getting rid of the MS3 Pro that I had hooked up in my cressida.
^^ Everything Gerry laid out with using stock JDM 2JZGTE ECUs around that whp range is the most affordable solution with OEM-like reliability. My USDM GTE ECU would provide the same tuning window within that range or possibly a little more since I have 550cc injectors but they're low impedance with a resistor pack and JDMs do not use that system-- not advantageous or cost effective for a solid NA-T car compared to just getting a plentiful JDM stock ECU.
Unless you have a VVT-i head I think an Aristo 2JZGTE Non-VVT-i ECU is a great option for you Rudy.
Gerry, I think ALL of the GTE ECUs run a little rich, don't they? Up to 80% or slightly higher injector duty cycle well below 100% (JDM 440cc high-impedance injectors) that rich tune from Toyota is what factors in all the safety when turning up the boost, correct?
Also Gerry, I just saw your post with the IS300 steering wheel and the UP/DOWN shift buttons. That is really cool that you can control the Aristo TT A340E transmission through the GTE VVT-i ECU with those buttons! You've already covered how to hook those circuits up into the wiring harness in your big DIY wiring thread, right?
I've been saying for the longest time "C'mon... it's an original 5-speed! Why not make it a small turbo NA-T twin scroll manual daily SC?"
But you know, now that I see that same style steering wheel in there it is growing on me. I have the same style leather steering wheel in mine (from a manual MR2 Spyder with an IS300 airbag center) and it really changes the steering feel IMO. Much sportier and slightly smaller than stock. It is those Up/Down buttons I am focused on though. I did not want them in my car since it's manual... had to look hard to find a manual version of that steering wheel in leather.
Since most SC's and Z30 Soarers were automatics from the factory anyway that is one factory-like change that both updates that car's sportiness as a daily driver and retains the muscle car luxury coupe cruiser appeal. If a manual transmission was off the table... having those manual mode shift buttons adds something back, I feel.
I think the only step up from that with an A340 transmission is a SupraStick controller? That and custom mounted paddle shifters behind the steering wheel.
Seeing those pictures... now it is growing on me that you're turning it into a super stealth NA-T VVT-i Auto car Plus all that updated 2000 body harness wiring.
Those IPL seats in there still felt very good to me when I last visited. I still think you should keep them. They're still very different from the MKIV bucket seats.
We've got to find you your ideal 62mm turbo my friend!
I appreciate the input! I'm slowly stock piling parts so I'll start doing some looking into JDM non-vvti ecus. Any recommendations on a good source for such a thing, or just stick to creeping the forums?
You guys rock - sorry to hijack Gerry (although I'm secretly using your low budget build as data for mine lol).
Craig - yes the 2jzgte stock ECU is usually rich in fuel injection . There are only two wires to add to take care of the up and down gear limiter with buttons / paddle shifters and I have mentioned those pins on the harness DIY on the previous posts . The IPL seats will stay on the SC with the highest hp/torque ... the cream of the crop of course, the red mamba.
The car starts and I can drive it around as NA just to get it going until I secure that PT-6266 . It doesn't need any break in cause I didn't change any of your pistons rings or rod/main bearings. I know you wanted it to have the manual transmission since it was an original 5 speed SC300 but it was of no use to install the tripod W58 I have around since above 350rwhp that is on borrowed times. Neither do I want to waste the remaining brand new V160 6speed I still have nor the brand new built Tremec Magnum I have since they will be over kill for my power goals on your short block . Besides it is a beater car up here in Atlanta where shifting gears will be a pain because of the traffic .
At the moment , am getting ready a new short block with aftermarket rods and pistons which I can use eventually with a 6 speed on this car if ever your stock block konks out on me .
The stock JDM 2jzgte ECU (whether it is VVTi or non VTTi) supports high impedance injectors. 440 cc injectors which means at 100% injector duty that is around 440rwhp at the base fuel pressure of 43.5psi . If you raise up the base fuel pressure that means you can go a bit higher that 440rwhp . I am usually stick with the base fuel pressure and always wanted a buffer meaning do not maximize injector duty so getting lean wouldn't be much an issue. You don't want to get lean while boosting . KABOOM will be what your engine will get into if you get lean .
Exactly the reason I said with the stock ECU , you can easily be at 420rwhp which is less than 100% injector duty for the 440cc injectors at 43.5 base fuel pressure. With that power level , you don't need any piggy back ... just plain stock ECU. The most is you might want to defeat the speed limit and boost limit if you want to get into that 420rwhp for which there are ways / small gadgets you can use.
When you say Base fuel pressure is 43.5, Your still running a 1/1 ratio with boost fuel pressure regulator?
Like the stock fuel pressure regulator at 15 psi of boost increases your fuel pressure 15 psi to compensate for the extra 15 psi of pressure in the combustion chamber when the fuel is being sprayed in.
Manufacturers writes down how much their injector flows at certain base fuel pressure . That should be the starting point . Then with your regulator connected to the intake with a vacuum / boost line ... it is a 1/1 ratio from there on. So at 43.5 base fuel pressure , when you are at 15psi of boost .. your regulator fuel pressure is at 58.5psi .
Some people instead of going with bigger injectors to get more hp with their existing injectors they just ramp up the base fuel pressure . It works but I personally don't do it that way.
With the stock JDM ecu its not a bad idea to use 550s and use a simple piggyback to trim the fuel back (lowers map signal on non vvti or maf signal on vvti) .
That will let you run more boost before you hit fuel cut (on the map cars at least), and when you go WOT and it goes to its max duty cycle you have 110cc more capacity so you can get closer to 500hp. Above that I say use a standalone as the trim is too large. The 440cc will run the best but you will encounter boost cut sooner and be limited to around 400hp. The maf ecu's seem to be pickier with regards to piggybacks and single turbos in general, but it is still doable.
I'm sure Gerrb is aware but for those who haven't spent alot of time staring at fuel maps, when you go to tune having the 1:1 rising fuel pressure makes the most sense in regards to your fuel map vs load, as most of the boost columns will be similar except for tweaks for your max torque rpm and max power rpm spots as well as other small tweaks. if you have a higher ratio than 1:1, things start to look funny on your fuel map as the numbers would have to decrease as boost increases (seems counter intuitive right?) and it gets much more complicated, making it harder to tell whats going on at a glance. Also if you run lots of boost, you are really adding alot of pressure to the fuel system and you have a higher chance of springing a leak somewhere = not good or necessary in the first place.
Did work on my sleeper SC yesterday . Did replace my fuel system and reinstalled my water methanol kit in a different way to make more room and have cleaner look in the trunk .
This fuel system (one internal denso and two external bosch 044) made 940rwhp easily on this car and a lot to spare . I was beginning to hate it cause it makes it harder to take out things under that mat like the spare tire and tools.
So I took out the denso pump and the two bosch with the surge tank and installed two Walbro F90000285 (Hellcat) inside the tank which should be able to handle 1000-12000 easily with a cleaner install . Eventually I will push this car to that level . I had to install a Kennel Boost a Pump so voltage on the Pumps will be constant and help the pumps flow more.
I have installed Water Methanol Progressive Controller and Kennel Boost A Pump potentiometer where I can easily reach them
I have logged at least 20k miles on this car . I don't think I still need to monitor sensors through gauges since the ProEFI is now monitoring them for me and ecu will react accordingly based on the parameters I have set with the sensors. All those gauges that monitor temperatures / pressures on the A Pillar will have to go. I will just keep the three (boost controller - truboost , AFR and oil / fuel pressure ) near the steering wheel .
That's a lot of gauges! Did you originally install them all for another aftermarket ECU or have you always used the ProEFI with that car? The car will go back to a more semi-stealth look with the OEM windshield pillars reinstalled.
The water/meth injection kit looks good! Will it require very frequent refills of the small tank with... well... semi-normal driving use? Pushing the engine/ECU/pumps/injectors into high boost modes I'm sure will drain that meth/water tank much more quickly
^^^ haha .. I had those gauges at least 10 years now so instead of laying around, I use them whenever I get a car first running as a 400rwhp car on a stock ECU. I always prefer to begin a car with a stock ECU to eliminate a lot of factors till everything is running good for a while before I push it for more power and with an aftermarket ECU. Those on the right A Pillar monitor temperature (transmission fluid , engine oil and engine coolant) . Those on the left A Pillar monitor pressure (fuel , oil and boost pressure ). When I installed the ProEFI on this car around 18k miles ago , I never bothered to remove them since I had no other car that can use them and wouldn't like them just laying around again. If I get hold of another proefi logger display for a good price even those 3 near the steering wheel will have to go . Maybe with the NA-T car around , I can put them there since that is on a stock ECU now .
On this car , I only spray water methanol when I am on pump gas 93 and above 18psi of boost ( around 450-600rwhp) so a gallon lasts a while since you will not always get to be on that power level whenever you use the car and even if you do , you are not on that power level for a long time on the streets . You will need to slow down every now and then and below 18psi it is not spraying boost juice . I just want to extend the limit of pushing pump gas 93 to get more power without the danger of detonation .
If I know that I will be using the car above the 600rwhp level which would be above 21psi of boost , I make sure I already have E85 in the tank and let the flex fuel sensor do it's job. Water methanol is of no use at that point so it is not sprayed anymore when I am on flex fuel . I kept the water methanol because it keeps the engine internal combustion chamber clean .
Cleaning up some bins in my place , I found another Alcohol / Methanol / Water Injection Kit . I posted it for sale on supraforums. If it doesn't sell which I doubt it will since not a lot of people use these kind of power adders on supraforums , I will just install it on the NA-T. Domestics and Subaru guys seems to love these water / meth / alcohol injection kits . With this injection kit , I can push the limit of pump gas . You will be able to boost more since it makes the combustion cooler and actually cleans up the internal parts . If you don't want to spray inside your engine , you can use it too for heatsoaked intercoolers ... just spray water on the intercooler.
This kit actually has a Progressive controller too. Depending on the engine internal pressure , the amount of water meth is regulated progressively (more boost , more spray)
Since I cranked up and started the engine of the NA-T project more than a month ago , I was having qualms about it . I am afraid that after all the work I am putting into it for a 400-450rwhp daily beater , I will not be happy for the simple reason that I will be comparing it with my other toys that are making 900-1250rwhp . So this past month , thought about the possibilities of building a higher HP/Torque NA-T . I did send a question to Dave of HeadGames that if I get a fully built GE VVTi head with all the bells and whistles , I did ask how much power / torque can I get. He mentioned a built 2jzGE on a S2000 at TurninConcepts making 1300rwhp and should not have any reason that with better supporting mods , would make more. That made me excited .
I recently got a 6 speed Supra MKIV shipped to me from AZ that I parted out . It was in an accident so a friend decided to let go and sold it to me after getting part insurance plus the car and leaving it with a clean title. It was delivered to me last week , started parting it out and it has parts I can make use on a fully built NA-T. So am thinking of a better power goal on this NA-T . Here we go again !
Today I was trying to see the biggest turbo I can use. There was a thread around here trying to figure out the biggest turbo that will fit with the Treadstone IS300 manifold. The Precision Turbos with SP compressor cover like PT-6266, PT-6266 , PT-6466 , PT-6870 and PT-6875 will easily fit as long as it is the S (Ported S) compressor cover that has a 2.5" out. The H (Ported H) Cover which has a 3" compressor out with all the afformentioned turbos will be very very tight presumably. You will have a problem on space between turbo compressor housing and exhaust manifold and very little between strut and compressor housing.
I got a PT-7675 CEA turbo from the MKIV I am parting out and it has the H Compressor Cover and did a lot of measurements today . It confirms what I mentioned above.... very very tight and wouldn't suggest it. Others have tried the Borg Warner S366 and S369 and does fit on a treadstone manifold . After careful observation , even if their housings are usually bigger than those of the Precision , the reason why their compressor housing doesn't touch the passenger strut is ...the compressor housing is a bit forward meaning the center cartridge (space between turbine and compressor housing) is longer . That moves the compressor housing away from the strut.
The PT-7675 CEA (Billet) Turbo with H cover and the Treadstone Manifold
did some measuring on them installed on a spare engine
and the space you have in the bay ... IT FITS in there but really tight . It seems to me that it won't work but one day I will actually test fit it in the car.
I have seen a setup with same turbo PT-7575 CEA compressor housing almost touching the 2jzgte SPA / FSR turbo manifold . Red car made 1225rwhp/+900ftlbs . The blue car had a PT-6870 with also an H Cover so basically same foot print . With a SPA 2jzgte manifold though , it brings the compressor housing a bit forward so it clears better the strut tower. I have same SPA manifold and did some measurements and looks like an SP Quick Spool valve will fit in. Well that is another car .. not this NA-T . So in short an H Cover for a Precision Turbo up to 76mm and a Treadstone IS300 manifold will fit in our cars ... but need some strut tower massaging if you don't have an engine to strut brace to keep that turbo from hitting the strut with engine vibrating ...IMHO .
the following pictures are just to show that even if compressor housing is so near to the manifold , as long as they don't touch each other , it will still work.
UPDATE 04/16/2019 - Check my post #4382 on page 292 . I have confirmed that a PT-7675 CEA H Ported 3.0" Compressor housing exit will fit with an IS300 Treadstone Manifold on our cars. And even be able to install a 3/4" SP Quick Spool Valve in there.
We've both implemented nitrous solutions to help torque or spool; so, why not just add a dry shot fueled by the injectors and call it a day? I'm running a stock GE head on old-school 272s making 900ft-lbs of torque reliably and 900whp across almost 3k rpms. I haven't seen anything close to that power-band. So, why go turbo-only with more lag over a smaller power-band?
^^^ Scott - thanks , you are right . Nitrous has the best power to dollar ratio and the easiest setup to do if you want to increase power.That will eventually be part of it to help me spool and add power to a huge laggy turbo.
Here is the thing . Currently , as some local friends know , simultaneous with this NA-T car (which was never planned. Craig brought me an engine and I had an extra shell so I said, let me do an NA-T ) ....one of my last supposed to be ( ) SC project (which is suppose to be the cream of the crop) that am working on now will have a 3.4 stroker motor (exactly why I just bought that MKIV which was in an accident, it had a stroker motor) . I wanted to top all my cars and even my two MKIVs with stroker motors . So that means the goal is above 1300rwhp ...even up to 1500rwhp .
Instead of looking for and spending on a GTE VVTi head to get built to hit that power goal , I was wondering if a built GE VVTi head will hit that lofty power goal, hence decided to talk to Dave of HeadGames about it. Whether it will be a GE or GTE head , it will be sent to them anyway to be fully built so I can reach my power goal. Without a built head , there is no way I can reach that power goal of at least 1300rwhp , IMHO . Using a GE VVTi head will save me $1600 looking for a GTE VVTi head since I have an extra GE VVTi head laying around. That's what made me curious about a built GE VVTi head. I had to make sure it will get into my goal so I did ask the expert in Dave.
It's the crazy idea about topping the powers of what I have now that brought me to this point (2jz addiction.. want more and more. You know how it goes) . I know my Gen 1 PT-7675 CEA will never hit 1400rwhp but will get near 1300rwhp. So on top , to hit +1400rwhp I will spray it. I can but hate to have a bigger than 7675mm turbo exactly for the reason you mentioned ... LAG . That is why thought of using that 7675mm instead of selling it. Initially I was even thinking of a Gen 2 PT-7685 or even bigger but the turbo I have now with at least 150 shots (depending on final goal) of nitrous will bring me where I want to be on this car and it won't be as laggy as bigger turbos.
Now if I can hit my goal of topping what I have with an NA-T , then I don't have to build two cars .. an NA-T on the side and that cream of the crop SC whose goal is to top all my other cars. It will be just a powerful NA-T . I might have to go eventually into a FF intake manifold to push more air in and a GE tubular turbo exhaust manifold if that Treadstone manifold becomes a restriction.
It get's crazier day by day on these 2jz cars as my wife says it . Glad she hasn't divorced me yet .
I like your style man haha. It's great to have a woman (or man) in your life to support your hobbies. Things like this give us all a reason to get out of bed in the morning and strap the work boots on.
01-29-19, 11:30 AM
KABOOM will be what your engine will get into if you get lean .
Plus all that updated 2000 body harness wiring.
. So this past month , thought about the possibilities of building a higher HP/Torque NA-T . I did send a question to Dave of HeadGames that if I get a fully built GE VVTi head with all the bells and whistles , I did ask how much power / torque can I get. He mentioned a built 2jzGE on a S2000 at TurninConcepts making 1300rwhp and should not have any reason that with better supporting mods , would make more. That made me excited .
. Here we go again !
) SC project (which is suppose to be the cream of the crop) that am working on now will have a 3.4 stroker motor (exactly why I just bought that MKIV which was in an accident, it had a stroker motor) . I wanted to top all my cars and even my two MKIVs with stroker motors . So that means the goal is above 1300rwhp ...even up to 1500rwhp .
. Glad she hasn't divorced me yet