When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I was just talking about some of the cheap *** people that owns SCs these days.. Yesterday we had a discussion on the FB page about it...and its ridiculous if you ask me.
Inbox me the price of the 97 if you still have it.
What size wrist pin is that?? Looks like a .300.
That pin is too big...its overkill for 1800whp setup..you motor will hate you lol..its waaaayyyyy to heavy. Bearings will wear out faster for sure..
what's up Omar ? hope everything is fine with you as well
Well , I stopped going through comments on that SC300/400 facebook page group... too many trolls, wannabees plus cheap *** dudes. Someone , after trying to low ball me on the W58 transmission / Clutchmaster FX400 setup, was even bragging to me about what he had which I knew right away wasn't true ... apparently didn't know what he was talking about and looking at his profile , looks like he is one of those dudes who need to ask money from his parents to treat his girlfriend for lunch : .
The SC crowd out there is unbelievable and yet they get butt hurt when you say things as it is...the truth .
yeah .300" , same wrist pins that Real Street Performance made over 1800rwhp ... . Their weight compared to the .250" wasn't that much of a difference for me after weighing both . I got these too at a bargain so jumped on them for a "rev it till it breaks" engine project . DLC coating them also will make them very slippery to avoid galling .
For the black 1997 SC300 5 speed ,I will let it hang around my barn in the South for a while at this point .
Gerry, the landscape of SC owners has changed drastically. A lot of people but them trying to be cheap and end up getting burned by them due to cost of everything. The chassis are popping up everywhere too cheap. But the upgraded and some factory parts hold their value.
It's really frustrating because all I see these days are kids trying to make some hot boi drift car. Cutting factory sheet metal to put on cookie cutter widebody kits that make the car appear to have a thyroid problem.
I think you'll have a stronger market to sell to once tax season rolls through.
^^ This is very true. They are not cheap cars to seriously modify for power and power holding the right way, nor are they cheap cars to do factory-style performance conversions to. Even restoring them cosmetically isn't an insubstantial investment. And then there's just basic catch-up maintenance if things have not been kept up with.
The most simple and affordable saving grace with SC's I've always thought is the handling and beautiful and elegant looks inside and out.
I do hope the summer brings a better market for our cars (not that I'm in it with mine, just stating in general).
Also, I just saw this video the other day and thought it might be relevant here. Hope it's ok with you Gerry. Watching it and seeing the rundown tally of this guy's SC build I found myself nodding over and over again thinking, "Yep. That's about right. So is that. And that. And that. And also that, and... wow look at that total cost going ever higher!"
.... but that's the point. If you want an SC built to the level generally demonstrated in this video you're going to be spending on some not inexpensive hardware. Even if you kept a lot of the aftermarket tuning parts out of the equation it's still going to add up. How this almost never factors into the average real world transaction numbers and value is beyond me.... except for what you and Gerry have rightly laid out as deductive reasoning as to why the SC market is the way it currently is.
Reyke - you are right , the landscape of SC ownership is not one that promotes a good value for these cars. Tax season might give the opportunity for people to have more money to spend but based on what I have seen regardless of when , the SC market isn't really that great meaning they don't sell at a premium. I had that 1997 5 speed for sale in the past 3 years and as I have said , in the past 15 years I have been monitoring these cars , either they were parted out or sold for nothing... built or stock. But it is ok, I don't mind keeping it until someone gives me what I want, not gonna hurt having it around that's why took out the ads here on our forum. I thought the $6k price I had for an original 1997 SC300 original 5 speed with a relatively low mileage of 116k miles was high but I see tons of them pre-1997 being priced higher. If someone showed me $5k I would have more likely given it . But it was all interest and talk and no ... "show me the money " thing . At any rate, let's see what the future holds for our SCs.
Craig , that video sums it all.. it is not cheap to have a performance car regardless of what it is.
One of the things overlooked when buying aftermarket forged pistons is the size of the wrist pin wall. Not because you got forged pistons then you are all good. Manufacturers will usually give you their standard size like CP Pistons will give you the .150" wrist pins. If you ask for upgraded wrist pins from them, they give you the .200" for an added cost of course . Take note though that there are thicker ones. Trying to rev an engine higher to get more power can cause a wrist pin to break into two and consequently , a loose conrod can create a window on your block.
So you guys have an idea of the different sizes of wrist pin walls , here are some pictures of the wrist pins I have . Depending on your power goal , you have to choose the right wrist pin wall size for your pistons or they can be a weak link of your build.
I don't have the .250" wrist pin but having the .300" and .230" in the pictures , you should have an idea of how stout the .250" are. .
from the bottom row to top row -> .150" , .200" , 230"
.150" , .200" , .230"
There was even a point in which an aftermarket forge piston company gave me .120" wrist pins . The stock 2jz wrist pins have .180" walls
from left to right -> .300" , .180" , .150" , .120"
I had an early Christmas present from Craig (KahnB666) . Yesterday , he traveled 600 miles (one way) with a van just to bring me the complete short block from his SC300 that had been swapped with a 2jzgte. With some inspections and simple tests I did while he was around, I am confident that with some minor beefing up like replacing the stock rod bolts ,which are a weak link on a stock block , with ARP rod bolts, I can push this 251k miles short block to 700rwhp as it is right now. With the tests I did , piston rings sealing on very clean looking cylinders are great as verified by the compression test he previously did. If I want more , I can probably throw in the used H-Beam aftermarket rods I have laying around that I used 6 years ago together with ARP mains and of course ARP studs. We will see if I will use it as is or beef it up as I have promised him that I will make him proud of this quarter of a million miles stock block being boosted. I really didn't need it since as he saw that I have a good number of complete 2jz engines around. But I was curious with having a high mileage short block and boosting it so he made sure it found my way.
Happy to see that short block has a new home with you and will “learn” the ways of boost under your tutelage
There have been many memories I made with that tough engine as it took me around over the last eight years. With the mileage it has on it this confident second lease on life makes me happy. Now it will get to finally be what every 2JZ-GE really wants to be: very turbocharged, lol!
Enjoy it, sir! I’m looking forward to the modern tech you will use with this
...
Aside, that Nissan NV200 I came up in... while it drove fine (other than no cruise control :/ ) I realized from my receipts that it was getting an average of 22-23mpg which is SC territory other than it taking 87!
Go figure that a 3300lb FWD van with a 131hp 2.0L four cyl and a CVT (plus a small fuel tank) would be that bad on gas at relatively low rpms. I was told it got 30mpg but that’s a joke. I expect such bad mileage from a full size Econoline but not something with those specs, lol.
The needed utility space aside I’d have enjoyed burning 22mpg in my SC way more Next time!
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-14-22 at 09:04 PM.
Reason: minor typo correction
Craig - after an hour with the engine yesterday , I was able to somehow clean up your quarter of a million miles short block . Cylinder 2, 3 , 4 and 5 have the most baked in carbon deposits. That definitely would have played a role on your rough idle at start up. Even after soaking them with that B12 Chemtool for a while, I had to carefully do some scraping to even take most of the carbon deposit out.
after an hour of work
will spend another hour on those pistons today then clean the block surface and make a decision on what direction I would take with this block before I mate a vvti head on it
It's a night and day difference, Gerry! Hard to believe those are the same pistons
I wonder if all 2JZ-GE's get carbon buildup like that after 250k+ miles or if it's the luck with this one. Seafoam would have been something to try after all. They look very good now though! I can see the evidence of scraping on cylinders #2 and #3. It was really caked on there. I'll check those cylinders first when I inspect the GE head.
Whichever cylinder head you decide to use be it GE VVT-i or GTE VVT-i you're going to have one very responsive NA-T
Originally Posted by RudysSC
Very cool to see the relationships that have formed here over the years.
Very cool to see the relationships that have formed here over the years.
True ! Craig have gone to my place up in Atlanta at least 3 times regardless if he was in CA or FL .
Originally Posted by KahnBB6
It's a night and day difference, Gerry! Hard to believe those are the same pistons
I wonder if all 2JZ-GE's get carbon buildup like that after 250k+ miles or if it's the luck with this one. Seafoam would have been something to try after all. They look very good now though! I can see the evidence of scraping on cylinders #2 and #3. It was really caked on there. I'll check those cylinders first when I inspect the GE head.
Whichever cylinder head you decide to use be it GE VVT-i or GTE VVT-i you're going to have one very responsive NA-T
Seafoam could have helped a lot , you are right. On my toys , I don't have problem with carbon since I either have water methanol injection OR flex fuel (E85 / 93) which helps keep the pistons clean.
Carbon deposits build up can be caused by a lot of things so an engine doesn't have to be a high mileage to have carbon build up. Like a car which is used only on short distances or that doesn't even have time to fully warm up before it is shut down will surely develop carbon deposits on its pistons .
After another hour of cleaning up cylinders , pistons and deck and checking for straightness yesterday , that part of the block is a lot cleaner now as you see on the following pictures
BTW , you had a minor detonation on cylinder 6 piston. It is not something that I will worry though. This engine will definitely serve me well. I will take out the oil pans in the next couple of days and see what I find down there then decide if I will put aftermarket rods and bearings or just use it as is. So far, the left over oil I drained out is very clean. We will see. I just want a boosted (450-600rwhp) runner SC out of this engine. After all that is the very reason why I got interested with it ... see how an all stock 250k miles short block perform and with care how long it lasts once it is mildly boosted ... maybe up to 21 psi. So far, inspections and tests tell me , it is good to go.
I will install a 2jzGE vvti head on this short block since I have modest power goals for this SC which will just be a run around car. Since I don't use all my toys at the same time , I will use and share an aftermarket ECU from one of my cars that I seldom use with this car . The secret of any NA-T setup is an aftermarket ECU that is well tuned to take advantage of the higher compression and be able to take advantage of its safety controls to protect the engine for any eventualities. Higher compression engines have less room for errors .
Those pics made me go out and clean up my block last night, got the pistons looking as clean as those now... just been putting it off lol.
The detonation probably was related to the carbon buildup , It can happen over time or even in a short amount of time if you run very rich fuel mixtures (I did that one time). It will show up on the compression test as higher than normal (carbon buildup takes up space) and the carbon creates hot spots etc.. all not good for detonation or pre-ignition, and you can often feel it at idle.
If you use seafoam regularly or the techron stuff, it can help keep the top end clean but not as good as e85 or methanol or water does like Gerrb mentioned.
I usually try and fill up at shell on my turbo cars so I get that techron through there pretty often and I have had good luck with that.
I look at those pictures and I feel like I'm not seeing the same engine I brought up to you! That was a lot of cleaning work for you but the results speaks for themselves! That looks like a proper engine again.
The Cylinder #6 detonation... well I know that is where the EGR gasses were ported in (unless I'm mistaken?) and that could add to carbon buildup over time, right? But then again Cyl 1 and Cyl 6 were the cleanest of all. Strange that it wasn't 2, 3, 4 or 5 which had the minor detonation since they were caked in carbon buildup.
I've learned from this that Seafoam, Techron, E85 and CPU controlled meth injection or water injection are our friends when it comes to driving away carbon buildup.
Ali-- I most often use Shell 93 gas (91 when I've had the SC in California or traveled through Arizona or New Mexico) but I thought it was only Chevron that exclusively put the Techron additive in their gasoline. Does Shell license it from them?
I'm glad seeing these pictures got you motivated again on your own project 2JZ full mechanical 4WD is going to be awesome!
...
I'm thinking about all this that you both have been speaking about with carbon buildup over time on our port injected engines...
Since I know my GTE swapped SC with the stock USDM TT ECU is tuned by Toyota to run rich I will probably need to be careful about doing regular preventative measures to keep the carbon deposits at bay. One thing I always do is find some reason or excuse to fully warm up the car if it's dead cold. I let the engine run until coolant temp needle just begins to move up a little, then I drive it easily until it's fully up to temperature. I never ever drive it hard until it's been fully warm for quite a while.
If I only have a short trip to make I just plan a little more time ahead to get everything up to temp and driving at operating temperature for maybe 5-10min at least before parking and turning it off. And I let the car cool down always 3 sec to 1 min to 1.5 min before shutting it off. I've been training myself to make it even more of a ritual than when the car was NA. I'm on the fence but I may install an HKS turbo timer as well. Maybe. Gerry you strongly suggested I install one. The guys at Driftmotion (who still sell those HKS turbo timers) also mentioned that some modern higher end alarm systems have turbo timers functions built in.
I'd consider a proper water mist injection system similar to the one BMW has implemented on a recent M3 Competition or CSL but I'd still want to keep my stock TT ECU. Not sure if that will allow it to be possible.
...
Gerry, anywhere in the 450whp-600whp range I think you're going to be fine if you use those ARP rod bolts. You're not trying to push the lower assembly to any great limits. How do you think the crank and rod bearings are as is from what you have observed so far?
Even the Aristo GTE A340E you said you are considering if you decide not to stay manual on that SC chassis should handle at least 500whp as is, shouldn't it?
Your choice of aftermarket ECU and turbo are what will interest me the most. I know you will use stock VVT-i cams.
And the ECU fuel map tuning for this setup I think is something you will be doing yourself with your laptop, won't you?
Those pics made me go out and clean up my block last night, got the pistons looking as clean as those now... just been putting it off lol.
Can't wait to see a 4 wheel drive 2JZ ... get that TACO build done buddy
Originally Posted by KahnBB6
I look at those pictures and I feel like I'm not seeing the same engine I brought up to you! That was a lot of cleaning work for you but the results speaks for themselves! That looks like a proper engine again.
Gerry, anywhere in the 450whp-600whp range I think you're going to be fine if you use those ARP rod bolts. You're not trying to push the lower assembly to any great limits. How do you think the crank and rod bearings are as is from what you have observed so far?
Even the Aristo GTE A340E you said you are considering if you decide not to stay manual on that SC chassis should handle at least 500whp as is, shouldn't it?
Your choice of aftermarket ECU and turbo are what will interest me the most. I know you will use stock VVT-i cams.
And the ECU fuel map tuning for this setup I think is something you will be doing yourself with your laptop, won't you?
The condition of this engine after 251k miles of use is pretty good I would say except for the minor stuff like carbon deposits and that very small nick near the outer skirt of the piston top of Cylinder 6 . But that doesn't bother me. It is not something that will cause any problem as long as the engine's functionality is well monitored by an ECU's failsafes.
I haven't removed the upper oil pan. The lower oil pan yes. I need to call you and ask some questions just to confirm some things and be able to make an informed decision. With what I saw and a couple more tests I did , I don't feel like even replacing the rod bolts so no point of removing upper oil pan. I would be able to drill the oil return hole without taking that thing out. I have done it before and just need to be careful catching all that metal . My modest power goal and purpose for this SC doesn't even warrant ARP rod bolts though I already have them. In that way I can stick to an all stock bottom end and see until when it lasts with a modest boosted life. It is exactly why I wanted it and just the way I want it ... a well taken cared very high mileage GE bottom end. Remember, even before I told you I will take your GE short block, I said if it is healthy , I would like to boost it and see how it performs and how long it lasts at around 450-600rwhp. And knowing how **** you are with your car , this damn block clearly shows it. For a 251k miles , I don't even see a lot of dirt / grease on the sides of the damn block . As though it is a block that has been installed a couple of hundred miles ago. Well, that saves me time. With a little wiping off , I will be able to paint the block red by Monday when the temperature is a bit warmer and before I install an oil and water pump.
The car it is going into is originally a 1993 Manual SC ... but is all converted to 2000 both with its external looks and with an all black interior , its wiring and electronics , basically everything. Maybe an RSP in the offing so I have a red white and blue SC ? I haven't made a firm decision if it will be a manual trans or the auto tt trans . It is the car behind that black 1997 SC300 5 speed.
I will share a ProEFI ECU with the other SC. After all I won't be using both cars at the same time. Secret of an NA-T setup is a good tune with an aftermarket ECU. All these stock 2jzgte ECUs were tuned for a 8.5:1 compression. Pushing the engine to a certain level I wanted wouldn't be that safe because of compression difference. Besides you don't have ECU failsafes with the stock ECU. It will tear apart that engine quicker. Yeah, at this point, I can easily play around with a ProEFI ECU. It has been a couple of years I have been meddling with it on rented dynos around me.
I am looking at the treadstone exhaust manifold with a 58 or 60 or at most 62mm turbo. More likely the 58mm . I want it to be a very responsive run around car. Would like to aim for the stock tt turbos response so probably install a QSV too .
10-31-18, 10:07 AM
: .
.
. Their weight compared to the .250" wasn't that much of a difference for me after weighing both . I got these too at a bargain so jumped on them for a "rev it till it breaks" engine project . DLC coating them also will make them very slippery to avoid galling .
. But it was all interest and talk and no ... "show me the money " thing . At any rate, let's see what the future holds for our SCs.
