Automotive Care & Detailing Discussions on washing, waxing, polishing, detailing, cleaning and maintaining the beauty of your Lexus.

How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-05-11, 06:50 AM
  #1  
MikeatAG
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
 
MikeatAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher

How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher


If you own a Porter Cable style Dual Action Polisher, this would include,
  • PC 7424
  • PC 7336
  • Meguiar's G100
Of which all of the above were sold for a time span of over 25 years, which means there are a millions of these tools in shops and garages across the world, then here's how to maximize their ability. Use small buffing pads.


First the reason for this article. The reason for this article is because the problem with these tools is that they have a hard time keeping foam buffing pads rotating under pressure.

It is even more difficult for these first generation PC units to keep a foam pad rotating under pressure as the pads become wet with product. The reason for this is because the wet foam acts to absorb and dissipate the power supplied via the Free Floating Spindle Assemble and the result is the pad will stop rotating and simply vibrate or jiggle against the paint.


Now here's why this is a problem...
Most people that get into machine polishing are doing so because they, like millions of other people, have discovered that removing below surface defects out of clear coat finishes is difficult and time consuming to do by hand. For more information on why it's hard to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of clear coat paints by hand read these two articles,

The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints
The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...



Primarily due to the ability of "Discussion Forums" to disseminate information to large demographic and targeted groups of people, over the last 10 years more and more people have learned about the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher and moved up from working by hand to working with an electric polisher.



Now this is key...
There are 4 primary things you can do with a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher or similar knock-offs of this tool...
Correction Work - Removing swirls, scratches and water spots or etchings.

Polishing Work - Polishing the paint to a higher level of gloss and clarity after the correction step.

Waxing by Machine - Applying either a wax or a paint sealant by machine because it's faster and the machine is superior as compared to working by hand and working by hand is actually your 4 fingers pushing down on a wax pad.

Removing Wax by Machine - Not everyone goes this far but some people do prefer to remove dried wax or paint sealant by machine.
Now follow me on this... for the first two procedures, that is Correction Work, (removing defects), and Polishing Work, (that is refining the results of the correction step and maximizing clarity and gloss), you need the tool to maintain pad rotation while downward pressure is applied to the head of the tool.


Here's why this is important...
The way you remove swirls, scratches and etchings like water spots, also called "Below Surface Defects", is to remove the paint surrounding these types of defects until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest points of the defects you're trying to remove.

In other words, the way you remove below surface defects is to abrade the paint until it is flat or level.

Paint is removed best, or if you like the fluffy way of saying this, swirls, scratches and water spots are removed best, when the face of the buffing pad is rotating over the surface, not just jiggling or vibrating.

When it comes to applying a wax or paint sealant, it's not important because at this stage of the game you're not trying to remove paint, (remove defects), you're just trying to spread-out a layer of wax or paint sealant and work it into the paint to whatever level is possible and jiggling or vibrating is perfect for this step.

Then if you want to remove dried wax or paint sealant by machine, then you do want the pad rotating again as that is how a microfiber bonnet around a buffing pad works best for removing a thin film of dried wax or paint sealant.


Back to the problem...
The first generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers are not very effective at keeping a pad rotating under pressure, especially pads that are thick and larger.

Thick foam acts to absorber and dissipate the power from the tool and we see this as no or reduced pad rotation. When a pad is dry, it rotates best, at least best to whatever its ability is for the size pad. As you work around a car and continually add more product to work over the paint, some of this product or liquid penetrates into the foam and the combination of foam and liquid acts to absorb the power even more than just dry foam alone.

Large foam pads mean more surface area in contact with the paint and the more surface area in contact with the paint the more power is necessary to rotating the face of the pad over the paint.

When everything is working against you, that is when the pad is large, the pad is thick and the pad is wet or saturated with product, the end results is very slow pad rotation and even no pad rotation.


How to maximize pad rotation for the correction and polishing step for 1st Generation Porter Cable Polishers



In a nutshell...
  • Small Diameter Pads - 5.5" diameter pads are the best balance of size and effectiveness.
  • Thin Pads - The thinner the pad, the less foam there is to absorb and dissipate energy.
  • Clean Dry Pads - Being able to switch to a clean, dry pad maintains tool efficiency for maximum pad rotation.
In detail...

Small Diameter Pads - 5.5" diameter pads are the best balance of size and effectiveness.
This is not a recommendation in concrete, just a good general size recommendation because pad thickness and type are HUGE factors. For example, there are other pads for buffing besides the traditional foam buffing pads. One example is the Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pads which are very thin and for this reason you can maintain pad rotating fairly well with a 7" pad on a 1st Generation PC.

Generally speaking however, the 5.5" diameter pad is a good balance between too large and too small. It's true that a 1st Generation PC can easily maintain pad rotation with 4" diameter Spot Repair Pads but this is to small of a size to realistically buff out all the major panels of the average vehicle in a timely manner.


Thin Pads - The thinner the pad, the less foam there is to absorb and dissipate energy.
The thicker the foam the more the cushion and this might be good for a bed, or a couch or a chair, but when trying to maintain pad rotation with a tool that uses a Free Rotating Spindle Assembly, it's a negative feature.

"Thin is in..."
(Yes, you can quote me on that)


You don't want the pad too thin or there will not be enough material to conform to the shapes and contours common to the panels that make up a vehicle. For a really thin pad, you can use an Interface Pad which becomes the cushion for the thin pad and provides the safety margin needed for machine polishing delicate clear coat finishes.


Clean Dry Pads - Being able to switch to a clean, dry pad maintains tool efficiency for maximum pad rotation.
In a perfect world anyone buffing out an entire car would have a collection of clean, dry pads available for their project and after buffing out a single panel, remove the used pad and switch to a clean, dry pad. A clean, dry pad can be a new pad or a used pad, but it's important that it's clean and dry.

Switching to a new pad for each panel of a car also prevents accidental swirls and scratches should a pad become contaminated from the previous panel. For large panels like the hood or roof of larger cars, trucks and s.u.v.'s, this it's completely acceptable and beneficial to use more than one pad per panel. Divide the panel into two sections and use a separate pad for each section of the panel.
Quote:
Panel = A single door, hood, fender, etc.

Section - A portion of a panel
Here are my recommendations for 5.5" pads for 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers.

Note these also maximize the ability of 2nd Generation DA Polishers including,

Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher and Meguiar's G110v2 and G220v2 which will be introduced some time in the future.


Lake Country

5.5" Flat Pads



The outer edge of the face of these pads is tapered so they are actually a little under 5" in diameter





Approximately 7/8" thick




5.5" CCS Pads



5.5" CCS Pad is right at 5.5" in diameter



Approximately 7/8" thick




5.5" Hydro-Tech Pads



5.5" Hydro-Tech pads are right at 5.5" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/4" thick




6" Kompressor Pads



The outer edge of the face of these pads is tapered so they are actually a little under 6" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/4" thick





6" Griot's Garage



6" Griot's Garage Pads are approximately 6 1/4" in diameter



Approximately 1" thick





6.5" Cobra Cross Groove Flex Pad



6.5" Cobra pads are tapered around the outer perimeter and measure approximately 6 1/4" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/4" thick




6.5" Meguiar's Pads



6.5" Meguiar's pads are slightly tapered around the outer perimeter and measure approximately 6 1/4" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/8" thick




5.5" Surbuf MicroFinger Pads
(For correction work only, must be followed with a foam pad for finishing)




Right on 5 1/2" in diameter



Approximately 3/4" thick

Last edited by MikeatAG; 05-05-11 at 06:55 AM.
Old 05-05-11, 06:51 AM
  #2  
MikeatAG
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
 
MikeatAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Continued...

Meguiar's 6" and 5" Microfiber DA Pads technically referred to as
discs
(Note how thin these are by design...)



The cutting pad is approximately 1/2" thick before fibers matte down



The polishing pad is approximately 3/4" thick before fibers matte down



The 6" pads are actually about 6 1/4" in diameter





The 5" pads are actually closer to 5 1/2" in diameter





Products shown

Buffing Pads
5.5" Flat Pads
5.5" CCS Pads
5.5" Hydro-Tech Pads
6" Kompressor Pads
6" Griot's Garage
6.5" Cobra Cross Groove Flex Pad
6.5" Meguiar's Pads
5.5" Surbuf MicroFinger Pads
5" Microfiber DA Cutting Pads
5" Microfiber DA Finishing Discs
6" Microfiber DA Cutting Discs
6" Microfiber DA Finishing Discs





5" Backing Plates
















Products shown

Backing Plates
The Edge Products 5" HD Backing Plate
Lake Country 5" Backing Plate
Meguiar's DA Backing Plate
3M Hook-It 5 Inch Dual Action Backing Plate - 5775



Old 05-05-11, 06:53 AM
  #3  
MikeatAG
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
 
MikeatAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Besides using a small buffing pad, the next most important thing is to use good technique...


Using a DA Polisher - Part 1

YouTube- How to remove swirls, scratches and water spots using a Porter Cable DA Polisher

Using a DA Polisher - Part 2

YouTube- How to remove swirls, scratches and water spots using a Porter Cable DA Polisher

Using a DA Polisher - Part 3

YouTube- How to remove swirls, scratches and water spots using a Porter Cable DA Polisher



Most Important...

Here's how to do a "Section Pass" when trying to remove swirls, scratches and other below surface paint defects.

How to do a Section Pass
YouTube- How to do a "Section Pass" with a Porter Cable 7424XP




The Definitive How-To Article for Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher



Dual Action Polishers
Porter Cable 7424XP
Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher
Meguiar's G110v2




How To Articles
The Definitive How-To Article for Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher
Tips for working in warm/hot weather or direct sunlight
Proof You Can Do It! - Joe The Detailer - Black Porsche Turned into Black Pearl!
The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...
How much product do I use with my DA Polisher? -


Old 05-05-11, 07:32 AM
  #4  
embolism
Lead Lap
 
embolism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ON
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

very informative Mike. thx

good to see you posting over here too.
Old 05-05-11, 07:42 AM
  #5  
97-SC300
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (17)
 
97-SC300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,238
Received 128 Likes on 107 Posts
Default

Awesome!

We got Mike Phillips over here on Club Lexus. This is a historic day!

Thanks Mike. Love your forums and shows!
Old 05-10-11, 05:03 AM
  #6  
MikePhilli
Driver School Candidate
 
MikePhilli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by embolism
very informative Mike. thx

good to see you posting over here too.
Originally Posted by 97-SC300
Awesome!

We got Mike Phillips over here on Club Lexus. This is a historic day!

Thanks Mike. Love your forums and shows!
Thanks for the warm welcome...

Real busy right now with a brand new project but we have 9 brand new how-to features airing on Two Guys Garage with Bryan Fuller and myself, 3 new how-to features airing on My Classic Car and 4 new features airing on Truck U plus our own TV show, What's in the Garage?

Plus this weekend we're doing another Live Broadcast of our Detailing 101 and Advanced 102 classes.

Life is good making things shiny...

Old 05-10-11, 10:46 AM
  #7  
kamlung
Instructor
iTrader: (8)
 
kamlung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,134
Received 38 Likes on 31 Posts
Default

i never even thought about marking the backing plate to see the rotations... thanks for the tip!!!
Old 05-10-11, 03:27 PM
  #8  
highroler
Driver School Candidate
 
highroler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Smile Dual Action Polisher on LS460 paint?

Can anyone comment on their experience in using a Dual Action Polisher on LS460 paint?

How soft is the paint? How aggressive of a pad did you use and what products?

Given my lack of experience and request to not trash the paint on first attempt, Mike Phillips & AG team sold me on the following products to remove spider swirls on my Lexus this weekend:

Meguiars G110V2 Dual Action Polisher
Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0 Kit
Pinnacle Souverän Wax


Here is my PLAN & cheat sheet/instructions from AG's website for my weekend project:

Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay PLUS Special
Wash and dry vehicle before claying.

Mist a small section, approximately 2 square feet, with Pinnacle Clay Lubricant.

Mist Clay Bar

Rub a Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay bar back and forth across the wet area using very little pressure. It will grab initially; this is the clay grabbing contaminants that protrude above the paint surface. Continue to rub until the bar glides freely.

Once the clay glides smoothly across the paint, it’s clean. Use a Cobra Gold Plush Jr. Microfiber towel to wipe off any remaining lubricant and clay residue.

Keep any eye on the condition of the clay bar. If it appears soiled, reshape the clay to reveal a clean portion before using it on the next section. If you drop the clay bar on the ground, discard it.

To store the clay, mist it with Pinnacle Clay Lubricant and wrap it in a plastic bag. Store it in the original plastic storage case.

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0
Apply Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0 out of direct sunlight.
Get water mist spray bottle
Test area
White pad 1st, then Course Green, then Orange
Setting: 5 or 6 on a dual action polisher
2X2 foot sections
Check your work after several passes to see if the defect has been removed. If so, reduce the pressure and continue buffing until a high gloss is achieved.
If the pad becomes dry, mist it with water and continue buffing.
Wipe the polished area with a damp microfiber cloth.

Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0
Apply out of direct sunlight.
Use a soft foam White finishing pad.
With the polisher turned off, spread the polish over about a 2 x 2 sq. ft. area.
Polish at 1000-1200 RPM (4 to 4.5 on a dual action polisher) working slowly across and then up and down the area. Check your work after several passes to see if the defects have been removed. If so, reduce the pressure and continue buffing until a high gloss is achieved. If the pad becomes dry, mist it with Wolfgang Instant Detail Spritz and continue buffing.
Wipe the polished area with a damp microfiber cloth.

Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
If applying by machine, use a blue finessing pad. Using a dual action polisher, set the maximum speed to 4.5 and work in overlapping sections until the entire vehicle is covered. Apply a very thin, even coat.
Once the vehicle is covered, wait 30-45 minutes before buffing off the sealant. Use a microfiber towel or a microfiber bonnet on your polisher.
This product is moisture-sensitive. In order to achieve a slick, durable finish, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 must cure for at least 12 hours before being exposed to moisture. Park your vehicle in a garage or under a shelter while it is curing, if possible.

Pinnacle Souverän Wax
Put a plastic sandwich bag or a microfiber glove over your hand and work the wax out of the jar. Rub the wax onto a soft Red foam finishing pad.
Turn the dual action polisher on between 3 and 4.
Apply Souverän™ in a thin, even coat over one panel at a time. There is no need to apply pressure.

Buff using the included towel or a microfiber bonnet over a White, Blue or Red pad. Turn the bonnet inside out if it becomes caked with wax.
Maintain the crisp, clear reflection with regular applications of Pinnacle Crystal Mist Detail Spray.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What would you do differently?

I tested the above plan on my wife's brown Buick Enclave last weekend and the results were well worth the 7 hour effort...smooth, super deep, high gloss finish!

No goofs on the paint...but I did drop the exposed Souverän Wax on the driveway when i took it out of the plastic container...ouch...$95 and thinking about throwing it away
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Nick@Autogeek
Automotive Care & Detailing
5
08-21-12 07:57 PM
Angelo
Club Lexus Vendor Marketplace
3
09-24-10 11:57 AM
Angelo
Club Lexus Vendor Marketplace
1
09-24-10 11:46 AM
Greg@DI
Club Lexus Vendor Marketplace
1
04-26-09 11:50 AM



Quick Reply: How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:23 AM.