response to melos air problems.
10-13-08, 10:21 PM
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New thread for MELLO*SOS air suspension problems
This is a continuation from another thread about a air suspension set up.
Yea I have Airrunner setup on 00 LS400. It's a nice system but I have a couple minor issues with it. I run the fronts around 110psi and the rears around 60psi on nice pavement, 120/80 on rough/uneven surfaces.
My response
Mello all you need is a digital setup to make it simple and clean .
You biggest problem you are running a system at 120lbs which is so low it is unusable for the street.
Then you can plumb lines to outside for deflating which are quieter .
You can keep the lines you have they are not the problem .
Add 1 viair 380 or 480 and it will take seconds. I have the same car with one 380 and it takes 2-3 minutes to fill the tank from 145 lbs back to 175 . It takes an average of 20 lbs total to lift my car and maybe 1/2 second for all 4 corners .
Let me know if you have questions and throw me a pm , i'll be glad to help you out.
Hi SK, thanks for the reply! I'm looking at the Autoloc Air Command controller, and Viair 480C compressor(s), switched at 200psi. I'll leave the 1/4 lines for now and upgrade to some electric valves and higher tank PSI to see if that speeds it up a little. The front dumps in about 3-4 seconds, rear takes a good 15-20 seconds to dump. Raising takes a long time, but like you said the low tank pressure really hurts.. Plus single small compressor takes forever to recover. I'll send you a PM when I get to that point of actually putting together the upgrade, I'm sure you have some good info
Yea I have Airrunner setup on 00 LS400. It's a nice system but I have a couple minor issues with it. I run the fronts around 110psi and the rears around 60psi on nice pavement, 120/80 on rough/uneven surfaces.
Full up:
Laid out:
Setup:
Two tanks. Not sure exact size, 5? gal each
Single 120psi Airruner branded Firestone compressor
1/4 line to 4 manual switches and 1/4 line to bags/cylinders
Dual pressure gauges (and switches) mounted in center console.
Sry no picture of the trunk for now, but it's nothing special, tanks and comps in spare tire well.
Thoughts
My main gripe is how slow the current setup is to lift the car (and deflate the rear). This is from the 1/4 lines. Slightly annoying while driving and need to quickly lift the car, but it's more annoying when the car is laid out and you need to go back to ride height. Due to the install, my manual switch placement sucks - they are hard to get at in the center console. For those that don't know, manual switches dump the air from the bags right out of the switch itself, so as you'd expect it's very loud in the car when deflating... My GF and kid complain. Of course the manual valves have no way to program preset heights, or auto fill on startup, both features I'd really like. Lastly, the single 120 compressor is taxxed to fill both tanks, it will run for >= 10+ minutes after lifting the car off the floor. If the tank was low/empty when laid out, you have to wait awhile before being able to drive anywhere. But other than these minor, correctable issues, the Airrunner setup is awesome.
Plans
I'm planning to upgrade to the system to 1) make it faster, 2) make it quieter inside the car and 3) provide a little redundancy and reduce tank recovery times.
Upgrading compressor to either a single or dual Viair 480C compressor, they're good for 200psi@50%duty. Much faster tank recovery!
Upgrading to at least 1/2 line from the tank to the manifold/valves. The single 1/4 line from the tanks is over taxxed when filling 2 or 4 bags at once.
Upgrading to trunk mount electric valve setup (Accuair?) with slow-downs/mufflers on exhaust ports. Quieter cabin, and allows presets with controller.
Upgrading to programmable digital controller, still researching but leaning toward the Autoloc Air Command.
Analog gauges will be dumped for either a digital display setup, unless the new controller has a nice LCD/LED readout already (which the Autoloc unit does have)
Keeping 1/4" lines from valves to struts, if the new setup still isn't fast enough I'll sell the Airrunners and go with a custom UAS setup with >= 3/8 lines.
Haven't planned out what to do for water traps or drains, but that stuff along with fittings and air hose is fairly generic
Hope this helped
Laid out:
Setup:
Two tanks. Not sure exact size, 5? gal each
Single 120psi Airruner branded Firestone compressor
1/4 line to 4 manual switches and 1/4 line to bags/cylinders
Dual pressure gauges (and switches) mounted in center console.
Sry no picture of the trunk for now, but it's nothing special, tanks and comps in spare tire well.
Thoughts
My main gripe is how slow the current setup is to lift the car (and deflate the rear). This is from the 1/4 lines. Slightly annoying while driving and need to quickly lift the car, but it's more annoying when the car is laid out and you need to go back to ride height. Due to the install, my manual switch placement sucks - they are hard to get at in the center console. For those that don't know, manual switches dump the air from the bags right out of the switch itself, so as you'd expect it's very loud in the car when deflating... My GF and kid complain. Of course the manual valves have no way to program preset heights, or auto fill on startup, both features I'd really like. Lastly, the single 120 compressor is taxxed to fill both tanks, it will run for >= 10+ minutes after lifting the car off the floor. If the tank was low/empty when laid out, you have to wait awhile before being able to drive anywhere. But other than these minor, correctable issues, the Airrunner setup is awesome.
Plans
I'm planning to upgrade to the system to 1) make it faster, 2) make it quieter inside the car and 3) provide a little redundancy and reduce tank recovery times.
Upgrading compressor to either a single or dual Viair 480C compressor, they're good for 200psi@50%duty. Much faster tank recovery!
Upgrading to at least 1/2 line from the tank to the manifold/valves. The single 1/4 line from the tanks is over taxxed when filling 2 or 4 bags at once.
Upgrading to trunk mount electric valve setup (Accuair?) with slow-downs/mufflers on exhaust ports. Quieter cabin, and allows presets with controller.
Upgrading to programmable digital controller, still researching but leaning toward the Autoloc Air Command.
Analog gauges will be dumped for either a digital display setup, unless the new controller has a nice LCD/LED readout already (which the Autoloc unit does have)
Keeping 1/4" lines from valves to struts, if the new setup still isn't fast enough I'll sell the Airrunners and go with a custom UAS setup with >= 3/8 lines.
Haven't planned out what to do for water traps or drains, but that stuff along with fittings and air hose is fairly generic
Hope this helped
Mello all you need is a digital setup to make it simple and clean .
You biggest problem you are running a system at 120lbs which is so low it is unusable for the street.
Then you can plumb lines to outside for deflating which are quieter .
You can keep the lines you have they are not the problem .
Add 1 viair 380 or 480 and it will take seconds. I have the same car with one 380 and it takes 2-3 minutes to fill the tank from 145 lbs back to 175 . It takes an average of 20 lbs total to lift my car and maybe 1/2 second for all 4 corners .
Let me know if you have questions and throw me a pm , i'll be glad to help you out.
Hi SK, thanks for the reply! I'm looking at the Autoloc Air Command controller, and Viair 480C compressor(s), switched at 200psi. I'll leave the 1/4 lines for now and upgrade to some electric valves and higher tank PSI to see if that speeds it up a little. The front dumps in about 3-4 seconds, rear takes a good 15-20 seconds to dump. Raising takes a long time, but like you said the low tank pressure really hurts.. Plus single small compressor takes forever to recover. I'll send you a PM when I get to that point of actually putting together the upgrade, I'm sure you have some good info
Last edited by skperformance; 10-16-08 at 08:44 PM.
10-13-08, 10:51 PM
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Alright here goes, there is going to be some duplication as i am going to dissect the system you have as much as possible.
Two tanks. Not sure exact size, 5? gal each
If you have 2 5 gallon tanks you have double the air i have and that means you should be able to go up and down at least 3-4 times without refilling as i can go up and down twice before the compressor kicks in at 145lbs to get back to 175.
Single 120psi Air Runner branded Firestone compressor
compressor is garbage ,use it pump up bicycle tires.
get any viair 380 or 480 , you don't need 2 but if you have the room and cash go ahead. 2 does have the likely hood of killing your alternator faster if the compressor is running while your car is idling from the high draw and voltage spikes.
1/4 line to 4 manual switches and 1/4 line to bags/cylinders
the smaller the lines the slower it will rise and drop the car. Does that mean you are counting the seconds ?
No , it means you will either slowly descend in 2 seconds with a whistle sound with a small line 1/4 inch.
OR
you will hear a tire explode sound and banging you frame on the ground with 3/4. Also larger lines are used for people who want the car to jump and bounce up as it is so fast.
If your car is slow to change heights it is because the valve you have as constricting the flow of air. Also it can happen when using restricters or mufflers which quiet the sound as well as slow down the rate of drop only not raising .
I have not seen a manual valve that is located on the switch. Normally the valves are in the trunk and the control box has wires going to the electric solenoids which are activated by the switches in the cabin. As such the air is released in the trunk not the car. BTW i had mufflers but it allowed a small amount of moisture in the system to not get expelled since it pushed air in fast carrying the water with it. When i dumped the car it was so slow it carried no velocity and would not expel the water which built up and froze my valves in the winter.
I have not seen ,heard or used the autoloc system in person so i am not sure how well it works. It does look nice with a couple of interesting features depending on which model line you get .
All i can comment on is about easy street air lift company is in Michigan and stand behind their products 100% and don;t try and make excuses if you have a problem and even help trouble shoot over the phone. It is an invaluable resource when you are up shyts creek on the side of the road.
So all in all you need new management system only.
Keep the shocks ,keep the lines and possible the tanks once you can find out what sizes they are . Take a pics as it may help one of us figure it out.
Throw the valves and controls in the garbage .
You may need to get hose adapters ( to extend them ) to move the lines into different positions as the manifolds can be mounted elsewhere.
I did see also another controller that has height levels to adjust the corners to the proper height all around. Do not go by pressures as they are never the same.
Hope this helps yah.
Two tanks. Not sure exact size, 5? gal each
If you have 2 5 gallon tanks you have double the air i have and that means you should be able to go up and down at least 3-4 times without refilling as i can go up and down twice before the compressor kicks in at 145lbs to get back to 175.
Single 120psi Air Runner branded Firestone compressor
compressor is garbage ,use it pump up bicycle tires.
get any viair 380 or 480 , you don't need 2 but if you have the room and cash go ahead. 2 does have the likely hood of killing your alternator faster if the compressor is running while your car is idling from the high draw and voltage spikes.
1/4 line to 4 manual switches and 1/4 line to bags/cylinders
the smaller the lines the slower it will rise and drop the car. Does that mean you are counting the seconds ?
No , it means you will either slowly descend in 2 seconds with a whistle sound with a small line 1/4 inch.
OR
you will hear a tire explode sound and banging you frame on the ground with 3/4. Also larger lines are used for people who want the car to jump and bounce up as it is so fast.
If your car is slow to change heights it is because the valve you have as constricting the flow of air. Also it can happen when using restricters or mufflers which quiet the sound as well as slow down the rate of drop only not raising .
I have not seen a manual valve that is located on the switch. Normally the valves are in the trunk and the control box has wires going to the electric solenoids which are activated by the switches in the cabin. As such the air is released in the trunk not the car. BTW i had mufflers but it allowed a small amount of moisture in the system to not get expelled since it pushed air in fast carrying the water with it. When i dumped the car it was so slow it carried no velocity and would not expel the water which built up and froze my valves in the winter.
I have not seen ,heard or used the autoloc system in person so i am not sure how well it works. It does look nice with a couple of interesting features depending on which model line you get .
All i can comment on is about easy street air lift company is in Michigan and stand behind their products 100% and don;t try and make excuses if you have a problem and even help trouble shoot over the phone. It is an invaluable resource when you are up shyts creek on the side of the road.
So all in all you need new management system only.
Keep the shocks ,keep the lines and possible the tanks once you can find out what sizes they are . Take a pics as it may help one of us figure it out.
Throw the valves and controls in the garbage .
You may need to get hose adapters ( to extend them ) to move the lines into different positions as the manifolds can be mounted elsewhere.
I did see also another controller that has height levels to adjust the corners to the proper height all around. Do not go by pressures as they are never the same.
Hope this helps yah.
10-14-08, 11:24 AM
#3
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kinda off topic, but I saw some dude using this as their tank: I guess if it works then why not right ?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...+%26+Inflators
or just rig the electrical and go for this! LOL!!
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...+%26+Inflators
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...+%26+Inflators
or just rig the electrical and go for this! LOL!!
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...+%26+Inflators
Last edited by mikemareen; 10-14-08 at 11:28 AM.
10-14-08, 12:37 PM
#4
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a tank is a tank as long as it can hold the pressure and vibration in a car.
most shop tool tanks as for the 120 psi range while suspension is in the 175-200 range. part of the reason buying a water trap is a pain as it is not rated for high psi.
Biggest problem with this tank is it is bulky and not made to be installed nicely so it takes up way to much room.
adding this tank to a car will not work as the electric motor is made for the cycle of 120 volts and not 14 volts dc.
The way i mounted my 5 gallon tank was perfect for my since it keeps the tank high under the parcel shelf almost perfectly behind all the original carpeting and the pump is at the side under the floor carpet where i can drain the trap. I have lost zero room unlike most others with a similar setup.
most shop tool tanks as for the 120 psi range while suspension is in the 175-200 range. part of the reason buying a water trap is a pain as it is not rated for high psi.
Biggest problem with this tank is it is bulky and not made to be installed nicely so it takes up way to much room.
adding this tank to a car will not work as the electric motor is made for the cycle of 120 volts and not 14 volts dc.
The way i mounted my 5 gallon tank was perfect for my since it keeps the tank high under the parcel shelf almost perfectly behind all the original carpeting and the pump is at the side under the floor carpet where i can drain the trap. I have lost zero room unlike most others with a similar setup.
10-14-08, 01:41 PM
#5
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u can convert it to 14 volts ya ?
a tank is a tank as long as it can hold the pressure and vibration in a car.
most shop tool tanks as for the 120 psi range while suspension is in the 175-200 range. part of the reason buying a water trap is a pain as it is not rated for high psi.
Biggest problem with this tank is it is bulky and not made to be installed nicely so it takes up way to much room.
adding this tank to a car will not work as the electric motor is made for the cycle of 120 volts and not 14 volts dc.
The way i mounted my 5 gallon tank was perfect for my since it keeps the tank high under the parcel shelf almost perfectly behind all the original carpeting and the pump is at the side under the floor carpet where i can drain the trap. I have lost zero room unlike most others with a similar setup.
most shop tool tanks as for the 120 psi range while suspension is in the 175-200 range. part of the reason buying a water trap is a pain as it is not rated for high psi.
Biggest problem with this tank is it is bulky and not made to be installed nicely so it takes up way to much room.
adding this tank to a car will not work as the electric motor is made for the cycle of 120 volts and not 14 volts dc.
The way i mounted my 5 gallon tank was perfect for my since it keeps the tank high under the parcel shelf almost perfectly behind all the original carpeting and the pump is at the side under the floor carpet where i can drain the trap. I have lost zero room unlike most others with a similar setup.
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