Jsmply

Hey fellow Lexus enthusiasts:

Okay first a little background on my story, I apologize if this is the wrong spot but I have posted similiar stuff in the tire forum before but considering my problem is also with a dealer now as well I'm curious and thought general might be better.

About 4 months ago (somewhere around July) give or take a few weeks I got new tires on my IS300 (and had an alignment done somewhere in that time period as well, a week before I believe). After about 2 months I noticed the front tires were wearing prematurely on the OUTSIDE tread. I figured in those 2 months I had the tires I must have thrown the alignment out somehow (I did go on a trip to North Carolina) and I went and got another alignment done and rotated the tires as the back ones were near perfect and figured that would give me a good set up front. A few months went by and now a week or so ago I noticed that once again the front outside tread is getting worn down unevenly!!! I had to take the car to the dealer anyway so I asked them (as per the advise of a lot of fell .neters in the tire forum, thanks again guys+gals) to take a look at my suspension and check the alignment. They inspected the suspension and said nothing was bent, and the alignment was not bad. They said that Lexus generally uses tighter specs than outside shops, but the alignment was by no means drastically out of spec or anything. I asked if this is causing my tire problem and he said probably not, if it was his car he'd probably let them re-align it, but he seemed real hesitant to tell me this is what was wrong, and then asked if I drive it hard and corner it hard . . . when i said not really (half the time I drive in snow mode to save gas) he then said well since Lexus switched to these low pro tires in 98 people need to stay on top of their rotations and checking tire pressure, but pretty much left me with no answers and a car wash (at least I got something).

At this point I'm afraid to drive my car anymore as I don't know how to fix it, and don't want to ruin tires I just put on a few months ago . . . I understand they don't have the answer to everything, and even if they blaimed it on me and gave me a solid answer it would be one thing . . . but I can't help but feel like I was brushed off by CountyLine Lexus yet again. And this was like my third time there and after complaints last time they had me work and speak with the shop foremen personally this time and I still got no where.



Regardless pictures are posted below, kind of hard to see in the pictures but you can see that Tread sensor type thing is almost even with the tread now on the outside, but on the inside and center it's almost perfect.

UptownGS

1st off.... remember that anytime you change your tires/ rims or mess around w/ your suspension you should get an alignment "afterwards"

This sounds fishy.... what sort of tires are you running. Those look like the stock potenza's. Where did you 1st get the alignment from and what... dealership?

do you have any suspension mods? Maybe an Ltuned drop?

now if everything is still about right I'd take it to another dealership with pictures in hand to ask them to check our your current situation. When you talk to the service rep, let him know exactly what went on, you have done nothing wrong and verify it with them w/ the pictures. More then likely that'll ring the bell for them to take you a bit more serious and win over your services from the other dealership.


update us, this definitely sounds a bit weird. Just make sure you have lots of pictures and document everything!

Jsmply

I appreciate your replies. I know I always need an alignment done and I have had two since this set of tires have been put on, but apparantly neither has done the trick.

The tires are not stock tires, they are Kumho tires which are supposed to have longer tread life to them, and the center tread looks great but the outside is wearing like butter.

I got the alignments done by outside shops, but they are shops I've had lots of experiance with and has always done great work on other cars (family cars to sports cars) and the lexus shop foremen checked it out and he didn't say it was bad by any means, he said Lexus uses slightly tighter specs than outside shops, but it was by no means drastically off and he didn't think the alignment was causing that wear.

See I have no problem taking it to another dealership, but they are all a decent distance away and I would hope if the other dealer proves something is wrong they would in some way compensate me for the tires, as they told me it's no problem and it's fine, meanwhile I'm burnign my tread off.

Regardless thanks for your help. I will be glad to go find a new rep, but what pictures would I take to the dealer? These pics in this thread are exactly what you see on my car right now.


Oh and no I have no mods at all in the suspension, or anythign in the drivetrain for that matter. Just a sound system on occasion.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Do you have the spec sheet from your alignment? What were the toe, caster and camber readings? Before and after.

Jsmply

Not sure, I don't have that, but the guy at the Lexus dealer (shop foremen was involved at this point) ran the specs and did not say they were drastically out by any means. I only assumed Lexus knew what they were doing in telling me.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Getting a good alignment is more difficult than it should be. If you are experiencing tire wear, it comes to: driving habits, alignment or the tire just plain wears faster. There are little things too but those are the three biggies.

Without the final specs, it is still an unknown, I'd have it done again. Make sure you get the print-out.

Jsmply

Well this certainly proved interesting. I had my doubts about what the Lexus dealer told me so I asked a few tire places who they recamend for alignments, and went to an alignment shop in the city that had a good reputation to get a second opinion. Check this out

My toe was at 0.65!!! for the front left and 0.58!!! for the front right!!! If you don't know the specified range for a 2001 IS300 is 0.05-0.15!!! Now I obviously had them fix it and give it a proper alignment, but keep in mind this is the same car that Lexus said "the alignment is fine, we here at Lexus use slightly tighter specs than most outside shops, but it's not drastically out or anything." They would not even tell me that an alignment would stop the premature outside wear. . . . the alignment shop I took it to today said that he would bet the car on it, it was that bad!!! The cross sai, total toe, and rear cross camber were also WAY!!! off.

Needless to say I got two printouts, one where I had the guy circle the problematic points, and my local Lexus dealer is going to get a HUGE e-mail from me with this attachment scanned in. I had told them before I brought the car in that I was having problems with the dealership and was assured that THIS time I would be dealing directly with the shop foremen who would make sure it's done right. This is the same guy who told me my alignment was not drastically off, and blaimed tire PSI or perhaps my driving style for the premature tire wear!!!

Wow is all I can say . . . I have lost total faith in that dealer, and as much as I've always known quality outside shops to do a better job than most (keyword MOST, I know some of you have some awesome dealers, I feel the same way about JM Lexus but it's quite a ride) but I figured with Lexus it would be different. I now drive around looking at Kia's tires and envying their "even" tread (even if it is on a pep boys tire half the time).

I'm not quite sure how I am going to word my letter to the dealer (and possible Lexus of America) yet, but needless to say I'm almost excited about writting it.

Thanks for all the help guys (as well as the guys on club lexus).

Lexusfreak

Have you replaced your worn tires yet or what are your plans in that department? Sorry to hear about your experence at your Lexus dealer.....most unfortunate.

Jsmply

No I haven't replaced them yet, I'm planning on using them for awhile as the alignment shop and I agree the tires still have some life left in them, as the tread will hopefully wear even from here on out. No doubt their life has been shortened from this whole ordeal though and I'll be replacing them sooner than later.

I did however write a long e-mail explaining my experiances to the dealership last night and am contemplating sending it to Lexus.


Thanks for all the help!!!

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Glad you got this fixed, I'm sorry that you lost a lot of good tread in the process.

When having wheel or alignment work done, I look for shops using Hunter equipment. It's not always a guarantee it will be perfect as this varies with technicians. You can search through their product line to get an idea.

http://www.hunter.com/

Wheel balance machine finder.
http://209.176.154.132/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

Jsmply

Thanks guys, there seems to be quite a few of those wheel finders in my area, thanks RA40!!!

Any idea what e-mail I can contact lexus at about my problems with the dealer?

Lexusfreak

I would look at etheir website & if you can't find anything there, call their tool free 1- 800 # (could be an 877 # or something) & talk to someone directly & perhaps fax them your letter to the head of customer relations. Keep us posted!

Jsmply

Thanks Lexusfreak:

I went to the dealers website and sent them an email to both the service and the main e-mail addresses and got nothing from them back. I figured Lexus would be the next step, I don't seem to find anything as far as customer service e-mail contacts on the Lexus.com site, but I know they exist as some of the guys on is300.net have used them before.

I'm debating my next step, I'll be sure to keep you posted. You think I'm wasting my time or is this worthwhile?

Jsmply

Thanks for the information menace2u about contacting lexus (and all other members who contributed to this thread). I heard nothing from the dealer after multiple e-mails. I have now sent the letter to customer service on Lexus.com. I will keep you all posted as to any updates. I didn't polish my letter, I wrote it a while back in a hurry and planned on polishing it before Lexus got it, but I figured w/e. I pay them for service, not the other way around.

A copy of it is pasted below if anyone is intersted.



Dear Lexus, as you can see the letter below has been sent to the dealership in question (Countyline Lexus) many times. I sent it to their main e-mail, their service e-mail, and then when I recieved the "prepping" for the survey I am going to get I also sent it to the e-mail address listed on that card as the "customer relations manager." The letter even went as far as to say "if you don't believe you can give us a perfect score please contact us to see how we can fix that." I have recived NO replies from any of these people. I have spoken with the dealership before with these same contact addresses so it's clear now that they are flat out ignoring me. My family is a very very loyal Toyota/Lexus family. We have a Toyota Sienna, a Toyota Camry, two Lexus IS300's, an ES300 and an RX300. Never have we recieved treatment this bad from our other Toyota or Lexus dealerships. I would be afraid to buy a Kia from Countyline as it stands right now if I couldn't take it elsewhere for service.

I look foward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance and God's Blessings,
Contact Info
Contact Info

*************************************************

Dear CountyLine, I was recently in your dealership for various issues. The most important of which being a tire issue that I had asked to be inspected with the overall vehicle in the past. Needless to say private inspections I have paid for outside of your dealership have proved the information I got from your service to be blatantly incorrect. The details are enclosed in this letter that I am forwarding to you and pending your response will be forwarding to Lexus of America and various publications that have shown interest in the Lexus community. I prefer some e-mail feedback if applicable. Thanks in advance for your attention.




Dear CountyLine Lexus
CC: Lexus of America
CC: Any Lexus owners in South Florida (specifically www.clublexus.com/www.is300.net members)

I must say that despite my many visits to your dealership, I am VERY dissatisfied with the treatment I have received at CountyLine Lexus, and am going to voice my concerns in this e-mail (which may become a formal letter in the near future).

First, their are four Lexus vehicles within my immediate family and several Toyota’s as we have a family friend in Toyota Management and have received nothing but the best treatment from the dealers and been very pleased with the overall quality and long life of our vehicles. The only time this has not proven to be true has been in our recent visits to CountyLine Lexus in our 2001 Lexus IS300. We have been recommended to primarily deal with JM for our local vehicles (2004 IS300 & 2003 ES300) and a dealer up north for our RX300, however CountyLine is closer to us and we assumed we would receive quality on par with the Lexus standard there was well. I must say we have been anything but satisfied.

Our first visit to CountyLine was for a simple check engine light that ended up being for a loose gas gap at one point. This issue was resolved promptly, however while we had the car in we asked that it be given a thorough inspection for any potential problems (namely the MANY well known TSB's for this 2001 model). We were told it was all checked out and everything was fine. Within a few months (not many) we received problems with the underbody panels coming loose and had them fixed at our expense to avoid bringing them back to the dealer. This is a well known and documented TSB on our vehicle and in fact was even mentioned as recommended service on one of our service sheets we received from CountyLine. Despite this being so, it was never checked apparently and low and behold it came loose soon thereafter. I asked that all of these things be done because I was told by my representative at CountyLine that my warranty expired soon (January of 2005) and that their was NO power train warranty on the vehicle and when I contested she said she would have to look it up as she was unaware of any warranty on the power train after 50k miles. I knew this to be incorrect as this was not our first Lexus, and not even our first IS300! Lexus of America was shocked when I had to call and verify the warranty with them because the dealer could not produce the information.

The next time I brought the car in for a burnt tail light; I inquired about such TSB's again and brought the numbers with me (since the representative could not produce any help without them). Now all of a sudden they noticed the body panels under the car should be checked and tightened and that I need the Trac/ECU update that my car's VIN fell within the range for in 2001. I had to figure this out myself by calling Lexus of America and doing my research online (I am a clublexus.com and is300.net member) as CountyLine claimed they had no idea what I was talking about when I asked about it the first time. I was told my car would be ready by the end of the day and I would receive a call. I received no call and at the end of the day I called in only to find my representative (granted it was a fill in guy for the day as my normal rep was out) had left for the day and it took 30 minutes to find anyone who knew where my car was. I was then told by the manager I could come pick it up as the Trac/ECU update needed to be ordered and would arrive in a few days. I came and picked up my car and was told the Trac/ECU would be in soon and they would call me by the end of the week. A MONTH passed and I received no phone call, it was not until I had another tail light burn out (apparently they did not replace the pair) and had to bring the car in for service again that I was able to ask about it, and even then was told they would have to order it and it would be in within a week and was given a future appointment. I could not help but wonder what happened to my original order.

THIS brings me to my biggest complaint that prompted me to write this letter. When I brought my car in this time (beginning of November I believe, I have the paperwork if anyone needs it) I specifically asked that my tires, suspension, and alignment be checked as my tires had been wearing prematurely on the OUTSIDE only and I had voiced concern about it in previous visits when I asked that my car be inspected for any potential problems and I was ignored as in all my visits to CountyLine. The shop foremen contacted me and told me he was sorry about the bad experiences I had at CountyLine and was told I would be dealing with him directly and he would take care of all my concerns.

The Trac/ECU was installed and the other tail light fixed, and the shop foremen had my representative call me and tell me my car was ready. When we arrived they told us the alignment and suspension was fine and the car was ready. We knew something was wrong with this (I was not alone at CountyLine that day) as the tires are obviously wearing unevenly and have been for quite some time, so we asked to speak to a technician or the shop foremen I had spoken with on the phone. My representative was very polite (she normally is) and produced him for me timely. I spoke with him and he said the suspension is fine and the alignment was also okay!!! His exact words were that "Lexus uses slightly tighter specs than outside shops, so if they did an alignment they could tweak it a little, but it was by no means drastically out and he said he didn't know if it would make a difference with the tire wear." I asked then what is causing my problem, and was told the issue is probably with the tire pressure or my driving habits, and even went on to say that "since Lexus switched to these low profile tires in 1998, they wear out incredibly fast." I am very aware of the lifespan of low profile tires, but my tires were not wearing prematurely as a whole as there were not many miles on them, the OUTSIDE of the tire was wearing unevenly with the rest. I took my car and continued to drive it, wearing the tires even worse (keep in mind I had asked for the car to be inspected several visits ago and was told they were fine).

I asked around with various other owners and got the name of a reputable alignment shop and went and got the alignment checked. THE RESULTS WERE MIND BOGGLING!!! The toe on the car was at 0.65 for the left tire and 0.58 for the right tire!!! The recommended range is 0.05-0.15! If this is what you define as "not drastically off and Lexus simply using slightly tighter specs" then I am completely baffled. The cross turn diff. was 1.23!!! The total toe was DRASTICALLY off. I don't blame CountyLine for the alignment being off, as it was not last done there and it obviously needed a new alignment, what I do blame CountyLine for is not properly checking my car when I asked, misinforming me about my cars status; and my alignment specifically, which in turn resulted in a wasted set of tires.

I have attached a printout of the alignment specs recorded that CountyLine told me "was fine and not drastically off." Even more troubling, I had to ask for the shop foremen to get even that much!!! When I arrived the representative told me my car was ready and I could go!!! The average customer would have just taken their keys and left. This experiences leads me to believe if you purchase a Lexus at CountyLine and plan on having it serviced their, you need to be or be good friends with an A.S.E. certified mechanic simply to double check their work. I took the COUNTYLINE LEXUS dealer at their word several times and now have nothing but problems to show for it (I say problems because the tires are not the only issue that have resulted from service at CountyLine, but that is another letter.

I am not writing this letter with negative intentions, I am writing it for the person who is not vehicle savvy and wants to spend their hard earned money on a Lexus vehicle. They are making the RIGHT choice. Lexus (Toyota) makes incredible vehicles of the up most quality. What they may need to think twice about is doing so at CountyLine Lexus. Thus far I have had VERY poor experiences there and no attempt from CountyLine to reconcile it. I am a member of several Lexus groups both in South Florida and Nationwide (not to mention my family members who are Lexus owners) and am sorry to say thus far I have nothing good to report about CountyLine. I sincerely hope this changes and they make an attempt to reconcile this.

Thank you for your time and God’s Blessings.


Sincerely,
****** Contact Info

Jsmply

I got this from the dealer today. I'm not sure if this is a good deal or not depending on what a set of tires costs at dealer prices.


Dear Mr. **********,

Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction regarding your 2001 IS 300.

As stated before, Lexus does value your patronage over the years and would like to continue to have you part of the Lexus family. Therefore, Lexus is willing to offer 50% reimbursement towards the replacement of all 4 tires on your vehicle including balancing and alignment. The replacement tires need to be the same size and speed rating as the factory tires. If you accept this offer, please respond to this e-mail by 12/2/04 and a confirmation letter will be mailed out. Again, Mr. Huntington, we are sorry for any inconvenience this situation may cause you.

If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,