ChronoJ1

iTrader: (2)

What's the purpose of filling your tire with nitrogen?
Does it perform better?

redgs4

Nitrogen is supposed to run cooler and -leak- slower than typical atmosphere.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Um, AIR is 70+% nitrogen. I doubt going to all nitrogen is going to make much difference.

Brandon@TR

Here is an email response to this same question from the Professor of Tire Rack University...

"Jeff,

Thanks for your question. Because of its nature, it was forwarded to me for a response.

Since tires are typically inflated with air (a combination of gases), their inflation pressures will rise and fall with changes in temperature. It is estimated that a tire pressure will vary by one psi (pound per square inch) for every 10° Fahrenheit change in temperature. This is why it is recommended that tire pressures be checked early in the morning before the ambient air temperature, the sun's radiant heat, or the heat generated by driving causes the tire pressure to rise.

Additionally while tires appear solid, if you could see their molecular structure you would find that rubber looks a lot like cooked spaghetti stuck together. As the vehicle is driven these molecular strands are stretched from, and then return to their relaxed state every time the tire rolls. All of this molecular motion allows some of the air to escape (called permeation or diffusion) right through the microscopic spaces between the molecules. It's been estimated that up to one psi of pressure will be lost each month.

So what can we do to help maintain more constant tire pressures? First we could check them more frequently. This would allow us to refill the lost pressure that escapes over time and with changes of temperature. It would also help us catch any pressure losses due to slow leaks caused by minor punctures before significant pressure is lost and the tire's internal structure is damaged.

Next, we could change what we inflate our tires with. Air is comprised of about 78% nitrogen (N2), 21% oxygen (O2) and retains moisture. Compressed air is convenient and free (most of the time). But can it be improved upon? Experience has shown that the answer is yes! For years nitrogen has been used to inflate critical tire applications. These include racing tires (CART, IRL Formula 1, NASCAR), aircraft tires (commercial and military) and heavy duty equipment tires (earthmovers and mining equipment). The hurdle with nitrogen hasn't been its application, it's been its cost and method of supply.

Nitrogen is a "slow" inactive gas that is labeled as an inert gas due to its nonreactive nature with many materials. Oxygen on the other hand is a "fast" active gas which reacts with many materials called "oxidation." Additionally nitrogen is a dry gas which doesn't readily support moisture while oxygen combined with hydrogen makes water (H2O).

So what are the effects of using nitrogen?

€ Nitrogen reduces the loss of tire pressure due to permeation through rubber over time by about 1/3. This helps maintain the vehicle's required tire pressures longer. This is good for everyone (and especially good for lazy people).

€ Nitrogen is non-corrosive and will not cause oxidation or rust due to the absence of oxygen and moisture. This will help eliminate internal wheel corrosion and promote better bead sealing. This is especially good for drivers who exercise their vehicles infrequently (car collectors, track drivers, snow tire users, motor home owners, etc).

€ Nitrogen is a dry gas and will not promote moisture penetration through the casing of the tire which corrodes the tires steel components (bead, sidewall reinforcement and belts) due to the absence of moisture. Accelerated laboratory durability tests indicate that belt edge separation occurred after about 200 hours with air filled tires while nitrogen filled tires completed the 600 hour test. This is especially good for low mileage drivers who don't wear out their tires quickly or those that run average annual mileages but use long wearing radial (60K, 80K and lifetime warranted) tires.

€ Nitrogen assures more consistent pressure increases due to increases in operating temperatures at the track because of the absence of moisture. This is especially good for participants in track days, driving schools and road racing.

€ Nitrogen is a gas and is still affected by changes in ambient temperature (about one psi for every 10° Fahrenheit). Nitrogen filled tires will require pressure be added during the fall/winter months as ambient temperatures and tire pressures drop. Nitrogen is good but can't break the laws of physics.

Using standard air to maintain the tire pressure will simply dilute the influence of nitrogen, but since air is already about 80% nitrogen, there will be no problem in “mixing” the gasses. However if the installer is conveniently located and the the cost is reasonable, it may be beneficial to have tire pressures maintained by continuing to visit them in the future.

Regards,

John R.




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Question: My Dad has a set of Blizzaks for winter use that we purchased from you and the tire shop (Tire Discounters in Cincinnati) filled them with Nitrogen rather than air. What is your opinion on this, and what about mixing Nitrogen and air as the tires get checked at normal intervals?

Thanks.

Model: S500"

gsenthil

Costco now offers free Nitrogen filling for all its members. However it would take abt an hr as they have to take the car up etc. So it might be a good idea to do it during your next tire rotation

Din

how much does it cost to fill up tires with this stuff?

lexusondubs

iTrader: (9)

english man , english is it good or bad plain and simple

PERRYinLA

Web page link:
http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,2330925.story

Fill 'em with pure nitrogen, please

Tires don't like oxygen. And the compressed air at a station can make rubber age faster and corrode the rims. But is it necessary to go nitro?

By Ralph Vartabedian, Times Staff Writer

At one time, every corner gas station offered free compressed air to anybody who would drive up. Eventually, the stations took that away and started to charge for the compressed air.

But all along that compressed air was less than ideal for tires. In many cases, gas station air was poorly filtered, meaning lots of moisture, oil and other crud was getting inside tires. And while the air we breathe works fairly well for the human body, it is less than ideal for car tires.

Tire retailers are beginning to offer pure nitrogen gas as an alternative to compressed air, which has been the standard as along as pneumatic tires have been on the market.

As absurdly expensive tires and wheels have become more common on vehicles, it makes greater sense to take care of them — and nitrogen does offer a number of big benefits, mainly in reducing leakage that lowers tire pressure.

Using pure nitrogen with all of the water and oxygen removed will reduce oxidation of the tire rubber and metal surfaces on the wheel.

Nitrogen is also supposed to move through tire rubber three times more slowly. Without any impurities, nitrogen also is subject to less expansion and contraction as the tire heats up and cools down during usage.

Regularly checking the air pressure in your tires is one of the most important parts of maintaining the safety of any vehicle, though many people never bother to do it. Keeping tire pressure at its proper level also dramatically improves fuel economy.

The air we breathe is about 79% nitrogen, with oxygen, carbon dioxide and other gases making up the balance. But the small amount of oxygen makes a big difference, obviously. Oxygen is highly active, causing corrosion and aging in many different types of material. By contrast, nitrogen is an inert gas, making it ideal as a filling medium where you want to retard corrosion.

It may seem like a gimmick, but nitrogen has long been used as a filling medium in the racing circuit, the military and the airline industry. But they have traditionally used bottled compressed nitrogen, which is far too exotic and expensive for tire retailers.

Nitrogen began making its first appearance on the U.S. retail market in a small way in recent years, but it took off last year as major compressor manufacturers introduced low cost systems for retailers.

Ingersoll-Rand, the nation's largest manufacturer of large compressors, introduced a system for retailers about a year ago. Other systems are on the market from smaller manufacturers, as well.

Rather than using bottled nitrogen, the Ingersoll-Rand system and others like it use membrane filters to remove the other gases from the air. It also uses three filters with charcoal and coal to remove water and oil from the gas.

"When we first began talking about this a year and a half ago, people thought it was a joke," said Ryan Lang, Ingersoll-Rand's marketing manager for the system. "Now people say it is inevitable."

So far, a tiny percentage of the tens of thousands of tire retailers in the nation are offering it. The biggest chain to jump on the nitrogen bandwagon is Costco, the discount retailer. Several other major retailers are testing the systems.

The tire industry has endorsed the system. Goodyear and Michelin have issued technical service bulletins to their retailers saying that the use of nitrogen is acceptable and good practice.

How much does it cost?

It depends on where you buy your tires. Lang said some retailers are offering the nitrogen free of charge as an enticement to selling a set of tires, while others are charging up to $5 per tire.

The membrane filter systems cost about $5,500, so the garages are making a substantial investment.

Even $5 per tire is a fairly small surcharge on a set of new tires. A set of four cheap tires will generally cost more than $300, and it is easy to spend more than $1,000 on a set of high-end performance tires.

What's more, the nitrogen also retards corrosion on wheels, particularly alloys, Lang said. That's one way that it reduces air leakage. So, if you have invested a few thousand dollars on alloy rims, the nitrogen fill can be a logical investment.

But what happens a year down the road when even some of the nitrogen has escaped and the tire is low?

You can refill the tire with regular air, though you'll lose the benefit of the pure nitrogen. Or you can return to the retailer for a nitrogen fill.

Also, nitrogen will not prevent leaks due to deformed rims, cracked wheels or punctures of the tire. All of these are common reasons why tires run low on pressure.

Nitrogen may be a good advancement, but with either compressed air or nitrogen, it is important to keep tire pressure at the correct levels.

ctonkin1

Just got new tires and they're filled with nitrogen because it was offered free from the installer. And I'll probably go back there if I need to add gas to any of my tires. But since buying the tires I've given the nitrogen vs air question some thought:
Air is about 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen. (I know there's more to air, but the other gases and water vapor are far less than 1% altogether so I'm going to ingore them for this discussion.)
So if I fill a tire with air, it's going to be already 80% nitrogen. (And if I fill a tire with nitrogen, there's going to be some air in the tire before the nitrogen goes in, so it still won't be 100% nitrogen.) And oxygen molecules are smaller than nitrogen so it stands to reason that leakage through the tire (permeation) is going to be mostly oxygen escaping. Refilling with air will, over time, naturally increase the percentage of nitrogen in the tire.
Since it was offered at no cost (well... no additional cost) and going forward I can have as much as my tires need for no cost, I'll likely keep up the nitrogen routine. But I'm not convinced that it will make a noticable difference and I'd definitely opt for air before I'd pay up for nitrogen.

Jetfire

iTrader: (3)

holy necroposting, batman. i think you should've started a new thread.

this thread is about the same thing but only 2 years old.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...-nitrogen.html

if it's free go for nitrogen, otherwise just fill up with regular air.

-Samurai-

iTrader: (1)

I had nitrogen put into my new tires this winter and so far, hasn't lost a single pound of pressure. Even on those -20 F days my tires didn't lose any pressure while everyone else have nearly flat tires and have to fill them up everyday because of the cold. Also I believe the car rides better. And yes nitrogen is better for your tires. Wont rot it from the inside out.

raytseng

my thoughts exactly.

no harm, potential benefits. if it's free, it's a bonus; otherwise, don't worry about it (or pay for it).

There's plenty of other niggles and tire-related ones at that you can obsess over that will end up driving you crazy. For example, what about pebbles stuck in the tire tread throwing things out of balance? and godforbid tire dressing to prevent rot? The outside rubber is exposed to regular air 100% of the time.And then what about the rubber on the interior side of the tire? how are you going to dress that? Oh noes!