Bush Economy the worst since Herbert Hoover

[2Lexus430s]

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
hahaha....excellent rebuttle..

those sources you cited earlier are probably some the most right wing fundamentalist sources around as well......

one was sited from the "Washington Post" as well...

[BAWLEX94]

well then if it's so "liberal" as you say, thus implying that they are incorrect, then why did you cite them? there must be some substinance to their reports, correct?

[2Lexus430s]

Originally posted by BAWLEX94
well then if it's so "liberal" as you say, thus implying that they are incorrect, then why did you cite them? there must be some substinance to their reports, correct?

Now your putting words into my mouth....

Nobody said that Liberal means incorrect... Liberal Spin on the other hand makes everything republican and conservative look wrong. Doesn't mean they don't bash their own if it gets ratings sometimes.... Come on, your smarter than that.

[BAWLEX94]

in order to counter a point that i made, your rebuttle was that the WP was a very liberal publication. Yet you cite them yourself, to which i can merely draw the conclusion that you use them yourself in stating facts. Im not sure of what your suggesting I'm smarter than. you were the one casting doubt on the WP

[2Lexus430s]

If a liberal publication is bashing a liberal, there must be something very wrong with that liberal...

Answer a few of these question yes or no if you would

1. Do you think the President did the right thing by Attacking Iraq?
2. Do you think Iraq Posed a Threat to other countries (regardless of it being eminent or not)?
3. Do you think that George W. Bush is a Moral man trying to do the right thing?
4. Do you think that he is an evil man trying to kill just to achieve his own personal agenda?
5. Do you think we should support a country (France) that has been helping a known terrorist country for years?
6. Do you think the US (currently) is the best country in the world?
7. Would you more apt to questioning anything a conservative speaker says simply because he is conservative rather than a liberal (be honest)?
8. Has George Bush done everything he told us he would do when all this started? Explain..

Be honest in your answers... and try not to spin these.

[BAWLEX94]

1. Do you think the President did the right thing by Attacking Iraq?
2. Do you think Iraq Posed a Threat to other countries (regardless of it being eminent or not)?
3. Do you think that George W. Bush is a Moral man trying to do the right thing?
4. Do you think that he is an evil man trying to kill just to achieve his own personal agenda?
5. Do you think we should support a country (France) that has been helping a known terrorist country for years?
6. Do you think the US (currently) is the best country in the world?
7. Would you more apt to questioning anything a conservative speaker says simply because he is conservative rather than a liberal (be honest)?
8. Has George Bush done everything he told us he would do when all this started? Explain

some of these questions i believe to be irrelevant, such as #5

1. i think the president was wrong in attacking Iraq. I have not and will not ever support the idea of Preemption. The policy of attacking a nation because you fear that it might someday attack you boggles my mind. If that was the case, then we have a long long long hard road ahead of us. I also disagree with unilateral attacks on soverign nations. To completely rework foreign policy the way this administration has done has completely uprooted all ideas of past foreign policy.
2. No i don't think Iraq posed a serious threat to other countries. To this day, no weapons have been found, and lets not forget that that WAS OUR MAIN CAUSE FOR ACTION. No matter how you want to spin it, that was primary reason for entering Iraq. I have a question for you. Do you believe N Korea poses a threat to other nations and or the US? If you do, do you believe we should deploy our military? If not, then your a hypocrite.
4. No, i do not think BUsh is evil. I dont really believe there are many truly evil people in this world. I just think bush is , shall i say, dumb. I have no doubt in my mind that bush is a wonderful father, husband, and an all around nice guy. I also have no doubt that Bush would be a blast to play golf with, or go hunting with. But in my mind, some people are not cut out to run a country. And just cause he's an amicable guy, doesn't mean he should be our leader and chief executive. And yes, i do belive we went to war in Iraq in part because of his personal vendetta against Saddam, and because of oil. Go research into something called the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) Please look this up on google, and read some stuff about before you reply.
6. Now this is the question that bothers me the most. Liberal, conservative, independant....it doesnt matter what affiliation you are a part of. You can love this country just the same. Yes i love america, and would never want to live anywhere else in the world. But i hate the way the patriatism card gets played when it comes to war in Iraq. Right now im watching Andy Rodd*ck get his butt wooped on the US OPEN....yet im pulling for him for the sole reason that he's an american. But does this mean that i should not be allowed to criticize, or voice my opinions on what needs repair in this country. If you disagree with doing those things, then you are going against every foundation with which this country was founded. If it wasn't for people like Thomas Jefferson who actually questioned authority and where we were being led, then we'd all probably be still bowing to the Queen Mother. Just because i disapprove of our current administration, does not mean i love this country any less than you do. Im just not blinded by patriotism
8. No bush hasn't done everything he said he would. He has not yet found Bin Laden, which was the first promise. He has not yet found Saddam, which was another promise. He has not stabilized or rebuilt Iraq. He has not completely disbursed of Al Queada. He has not led a truthfull executive office like he promised in his campaign. Give me a while to think of some more....and I don't want to hear : "well he hasn't had time to.........(fill in the blank)." Your question to me was, "has he done what he said", and as of yet, he hasn't.

[2Lexus430s]

Now to answer your questions.

N Korea? Yes, we should stop them.. How, hard to say right now. Their military is MUCH more advanced than Iraq's was.

I do believe that if you stop a threat before it become reality, then you have quite possible saved lives. Iraq was a direct threat to their surrounding countries and us. They proved that already. All they were doing was regrouping until they were strong enough to attack again.


Do me a favor.. Take a single penny and hide it in a Football field.. Now get someone of your friends to go and find it.. How long do you think that will take (considering you can bury it as well or even hide it in another football field elseware). Now imagine hiding a small storage building supply of Bio or Chem weapons in a country the size of Cali... Go find it.

[LB Lex]

I think I just found where the topic of this thread came from:

"No president since Herbert Hoover has seen job losses like this over the course of his term in office, we Democrats respectfully say to the president and his Republican Party: Give America back the millions of jobs that your failed policies have taken away." - Gov. Gray Davis

Here's the article: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...eut/index.html

[J.P.]

Geez lets bring back the over inflated, massively phat IT sector where you have 2 desktop "engineers" per desktop.

A large chunk of this employment problem is IT and Manufacturing people. A LOT of the IT people didn't have good jobs to begin with, a booming high paying market popped up that didn't require a degree, departments got phat during the boom time and here we are, lots of unemployed IT people sitting around with no other means of making cash aside from waiting tables and doing telemarketing, wait, with the no call list now we are losing thousands of those jobs.

These kind of problems take TIME to heal, when a market is flooded it takes years for people to reeducate and move into other professional sectors, give it time.

[2Lexus430s]

ironic 2 Quotes in the article

"Twelve years ago, much like today, the American economy was hemorrhaging jobs, thanks to Republican leadership in the White House," Davis said in the Democratic response to the president's weekly radio address. -Gray Davis

"Davis is facing a recall election next month amid voter frustration with California's weak economy and the state's dismal financial condition." -CNN

Clinton's Chairman Of Council Of Economic Advisors, Joseph Stiglitz, Said Recession Started During Clinton's Tenure. "It would be nice for us veterans of the Clinton Administration if we could simply blame mismanagement by President George W. Bush's economic team for this seemingly sudden turnaround in the economy, which coincided so closely with its taking charge. But ... the economy was slipping into recession even before Bush took office, and the corporate scandals that are rocking America began much earlier." (Joseph Stiglitz, "The Roaring Nineties," The Atlantic Monthly, 10/02)

Read these

Stiglitz Discredited Democrats' Claim That Bush Administration Is Responsible For Recession. Stiglitz noted that during the Clinton Administration "the groundwork for some of the problems we are now experiencing was being laid. Accounting standards slipped; deregulation was taken further than it should have been; and corporate greed was pandered to ...." (Joseph Stiglitz, "The Roaring Nineties," The Atlantic Monthly, 10/02)

Clinton Administration Grossly Overestimated Strength Of The Economy. "Hidden in the morass of statistics, there is proof that the Clinton administration grossly overestimated the strength of the economy leading up to the 2000 election. Did the federal government join Enron and WorldCom in cooking the books? ... Most startling, the Commerce Department in 2000 showed the economy on an upswing through most of the election year, while in fact it was declining." (Robert Novak, Op-Ed, "Sunny Clinton Forecast Leaves Cloud Over Bush," Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/02)

Drop In Investments In First Half Of 2000 Contributed To Recession. "A plunge in investment that began in the last half of 2000, along with the declines in equity markets, was an important force in the recession." (Council Of Economic Advisers, "Strengthening America's Economy: The President's Jobs And Growth Proposals," 1/7/03)

[J.P.]

SCLexus3.0 - It kills me to this day, that people blame the recession on Bush. I am not saying he is perfect, but for those who had MONEY in the damn market around 2000 will tell you point blank it started when Clinton in term.

[bitkahuna]

SCLexus3.0 - thanks for carrying the flame bud, but you're gonna be in for a lot of typing if you keep taking on the tag team of lex400sc and BAWLEX94. lex400sc is a cynic, who rarely says anything positive about anything, and BAWLEX94 is a die hard Liberal. More power to 'em.

[BAWLEX94]

In my last post, the only real message i wanted to convey was that you can love the country yet disagree with the leaders at the same time. You don't have to be conservative to say you want to continue living in America. Myself, lex400sc(whom i don't think claims to be liberal or conservative) and any other liberal won't deny that America is probably the best place in the world to live. But disagreeing with how the country is run is not an admission of treason or anything else. I realize that i post on a predominantly conservative minded board. I'm not trying to cause any arguments when i post, but i for one believe that it is more than healthy for people to hear a dissenting view every now and then. Me being more to the left than ya'll doesn't mean i hate you, and doesn't mean you have to hate me. Just try and consider all view points ,including mine, in a controversial political discussion, and i'll try to do the same for ya'll.

[2Lexus430s]

I don't not like you because of your view points.. It makes for good discussion and a great topic. Its tests our skills and might expand out minds even.

I definitely respect you because you prove you’re an educated person that isn't a liberal because "it’s the cool thing to be".

I always tell me people the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans know why they are Republicans, democrats do it because it gives them for freedom to do whatever they want and blame all the worlds problems on Republicans.

You have proven that wrong (in your case at least).

The final point I would like to make however is:
The country is not run by President Bush. The Country is run by the Government which is made up of Democrats, Republicans, Independent, Liberal, and conservatives. The president can make choices, but when it comes down to it EVERYONE in congress, the Senate, and the other branches of our government choose what happen. To blame all the problems on one person is not right and not morally right. He is trying to do the right thing but at the same time he is completely human and has (and will) make mistakes.. Nobodies perfect, but I do love this President because he has a deep faith and follows it well.
BAWLEX94 I do respect your opinion, but choose to have my own... That’s one freedom this country can enjoy that many others don't.

[lexguynj]

Speaking of this poor economy and a side note on how it relates to Lexus, my Lexus sales rep said they have had great sales figures even through out this poor economic times. I believe BMW is also doing very well too in terms of vehicle sales and profits.

Why are luxury car sales still strong in this poor economy? The rich still have the money to spend and can weather a poor economy (of course there are other factors involved, especially with the lower interest rates also offerred by Lexus financial). Are the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer? This is most likely the case and I just hope the economy improves soon (you can already see small signs of improvement, however all I hear everyday on the news is how bad things are, which is true and puts a damper on things, including the outlook on the economy.