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Old 07-17-14, 07:07 PM   #31
DaveGS4
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Teal Sc400, exit this thread please <political posts removed>
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Old 07-17-14, 08:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I have to admit, though...those picture-comparisons of Putin's jet and the Malaysian Airlines colors are interesting. That could possibly fool a careless or inexperienced missile-team if they were firing visually.
I thought the same thing. They do look alike from the ground.
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Old 07-17-14, 08:40 PM   #33
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What a tragedy and I cannot imagine how this airlines management is coping this year.
Harkens back to the days in 1954 when two of the first jet commercial airliners in service, the British De Havilland Comets, were lost due to mid-air explosions in the space of just a couple of months. Those explosions were eventually traced to metal fatigue in a cabin bulkhead from pressurization (of which little was known at the time)...not a possible hijacking or an enemy missile like what happened this year.
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Old 07-17-14, 09:21 PM   #34
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Tragic- to all the families and loved ones involved, in any tragic event such as this, our prayers are with you.
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Old 07-18-14, 02:32 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by BrettJacks View Post
Funny, your beloved separatists have blocked Ukranian rescuers and police from accessing the site and have sent the black box to Moscow.
No one blocked anyone. The plane fell on their territory, that's all.
Plus, who were they going to rescue there anyway?

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Old 07-18-14, 04:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarshall
I have to admit, though...those picture-comparisons of Putin's jet and the Malaysian Airlines colors are interesting. That could possibly fool a careless or inexperienced missile-team if they were firing visually.

The idea of the paint scheme vs visual shoot is out the window. No one can tell colors of something moving at +400mph, 5 miles above. I would even venture to say that it would be very hard with a scope.

They are now saying a Buk was used, same as I said in the beginning, Both Russian and Ukraine have Buk systems. They can track and hit aircraft in a 15 mile dome. Ukrainians would have older versions for sure.
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Old 07-18-14, 05:16 AM   #37
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About 100 of the passengers on the Malaysia Airlines flight that was shot down over the Ukraine on Thursday were reportedly AIDS scientists and researchers heading to Australia for a conference
(Courtesy of CBS San Francisco)

What are the odds they all kept duplicate notes? Losing 100 researchers on the same flight for the same cause, will probably set back a possible cure for AIDS for decades. Also I thought they weren't allowed all flying together or that is executives only?
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Old 07-18-14, 07:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
I have to admit, though...those picture-comparisons of Putin's jet and the Malaysian Airlines colors are interesting. That could possibly fool a careless or inexperienced missile-team if they were firing visually.
I doubt seriously that there was any visual from the ground since it is my understanding that the aircraft was obscured by an overcast sky. The missile team merely saw a raw target.
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Old 07-18-14, 08:51 AM   #39
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A couple of interesting questions began to appear yesterday:
  1. The Malaysian Airlines pilot could have nixed the route given him - according to several commercial pilots and safety experts experienced in international flights, ALL pilots have the authority to turn down proposed routes. The route given the Malaysian pilot would clearly take him over contested territory where a shooting war was going on . . . why on earth would he decide to overfly the region? US airlines are under orders NOT to fly over contested areas, but not all countries are so careful. It's going to be interesting to see how the Dutch (who operated Malaysia's Amsterdam operations) will explain this one.

    I know it happens all the time. I was on board a KLM flight out of Bahrain bound for Amsterdam several years ago when Israel was conducting airstrikes in Lebanon in an attempt to rout the Syrian army from the country. From nearly 40,000 feet you could see strike aircraft flying into Sidon and Beirut at rooftop level, and their bombs exploding in the cities.

    All this was going on far below, and our captain was obviously in communication with Israeli commanders to assure our safety. The battle was taking place over 30,000 feet below and we were just spectators. Of course the captain wasn't talking with Syrian commanders who were probably busy ducking the incoming, but had one AA missile gone astray, we couldn't have avoided it.

    Whatever the agreements on the ground, it's never a good idea to haul a slow, defenseless aluminum tube filled with civilians anywhere near a shooting situation. "Gentlemen's agreements" aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on.

  2. It's beginning to appear that our worst fears are justified. Some amateur, in a fit of misidentification decided that the Malaysian Boeing aircraft was a Russian transport and decided it would not transit "our sky" - so he ordered it shot down. It happens.

    October 4, 2001, Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 enroute from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk was shot down over the Black Sea - by Putin's Ukranian puppets . . . with the loss of 66 Israeli passengers flying home to meet relatives they hadn't seen in years. No satisfactory explanation has been given by Russia, but Ukrainian officials later admitted that during a Naval exercise, a missile had been fired that overshot its target by some 150 km. Like most such incidents, this was either the result of stupidity or total ignorance. Pick 'em.

    On September 1, 1983, KAL 007, a Boeing 747 was shot down by Soviet fighters near the Kamchatka Peninsula after it strayed into Soviet airspace after the pilot entered the wrong data into the navigation computer and failed to monitor their position as the aircraft flew toward Seoul on a flight from New York. The error cost the lives of all 269 passengers and crew. The rigid command structure of the FSU was to blame for this one. Russian (and Soviet) pilots are under the direct authority and control of ground commanders and have NO input into the tactical situation - one of the huge downfalls of their system. The fighter pilot in trail of the airliner was well aware it was a civilian aircraft, but carried out his orders to shoot.

    We're no innocents here. On July 3, 1988, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner carrying 290 passengers and crew on their way to Dubai as they crossed the hotly contested Strait of Hormuz. The official Navy account claims that the airliner was squawking its IFF code on an improper frequency, but that has been disproved after lengthy investigation. Vincennes was listening on an improper frequency for civilian aircraft - under the totally wrong assumption the aircraft was an inbound military fighter that would squawk on another frequency.

    It would seem that incompetent and/or trigger-happy human beings at the controls of deadly weapons, combined with profoundly stupid management or intelligence result in massive tragedy. How are we supposed to respond to that?

Last edited by Lil4X; 07-18-14 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 07-18-14, 08:52 AM   #40
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from all i've seen/read, looks to me like the Russian special forces, wait, i mean 'separatists', thought they were going to hit another Ukranian transport plane, and went for it, probably figuring there's no way commercial traffic would be that stupid. oops.

in theory this should cause all kinds of grief for putin, but i fully expect the strongest amount of NOTHING but some hot air and condemnation from the rest of the world.
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Old 07-18-14, 08:59 AM   #41
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100 on board were AIDS scientists going to a conference in australia

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...ims-australia/
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Old 07-18-14, 09:04 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by BrettJacks View Post
http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/ma...h-295-on-board


Not a good year for Malaysia Airlines passengers

Prayers going out for the murder victims and their families. Whichever side did this needs a serious dose of carpet bombing.

It's really not a good year for Malaysian Airlines. Really sad news, my heart goes to the families of the passengers.
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Old 07-18-14, 09:12 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
from all i've seen/read, looks to me like the Russian special forces, wait, i mean 'separatists', thought they were going to hit another Ukranian transport plane, and went for it, probably figuring there's no way commercial traffic would be that stupid. oops.

in theory this should cause all kinds of grief for putin, but i fully expect the strongest amount of NOTHING but some hot air and condemnation from the rest of the world.
Yup, whether it was separatists or the Russian military, Putin owns this problem.
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Old 07-18-14, 01:52 PM   #44
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Folks let's not make this a debate thread.

This is NOT an opportunity for a bash-Obama thread, let's keep the discussion on this event.
In case folks missed it.
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Old 07-18-14, 02:46 PM   #45
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Lets not jump so quick to conclusions in blaming which side is at fault. Lets wait untill a unbiased investigation with facts and reason is fully conducted.
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