Help with lance alignment on a 300
11-22-15, 05:38 AM
#16
^^ Welcome! Just hope the info is useful to others. Yes, it's not possible to be dead-on with stock TT or standard Lance settings on an SC.
You've certainly gone the distance with a rear subframe swap. When winter ends and you drive your SC again I'd be interested to hear what your observed wear is like. It would be an interesting comparison : )
You've certainly gone the distance with a rear subframe swap. When winter ends and you drive your SC again I'd be interested to hear what your observed wear is like. It would be an interesting comparison : )
08-22-17, 01:13 AM
#17
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Sorry for bumping the necro-thread, but I am Lance of the lance alignment. I never imagined the impact of what I posted on MkIV.com so many years ago.
Compliance with the numbers isn't nearly as important as understanding what the numbers signify. Toe is the primary component of tire wear, so for a street driven car, toe is critical. That said, I run toe out on everything I drive these days because I'll suffer a little inner edge wear for a more crisp turn in. If you are track driving your car, you want more toe out than what many would call reasonable (1/8" to 3/16"), and if you autocross, maybe more depending on a lot of other factors- tire choice, temperature, track conditions, etc.
Keep in mind, these specs were intended to make the car wear tires evenly - NOT to provide best mechanical grip! So they are nothing more than a starting point for the informed student. If you have questions, please feel free to PM me. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability.
lance
Compliance with the numbers isn't nearly as important as understanding what the numbers signify. Toe is the primary component of tire wear, so for a street driven car, toe is critical. That said, I run toe out on everything I drive these days because I'll suffer a little inner edge wear for a more crisp turn in. If you are track driving your car, you want more toe out than what many would call reasonable (1/8" to 3/16"), and if you autocross, maybe more depending on a lot of other factors- tire choice, temperature, track conditions, etc.
Keep in mind, these specs were intended to make the car wear tires evenly - NOT to provide best mechanical grip! So they are nothing more than a starting point for the informed student. If you have questions, please feel free to PM me. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability.
lance
08-22-17, 12:02 PM
#18
Sorry for bumping the necro-thread, but I am Lance of the lance alignment. I never imagined the impact of what I posted on MkIV.com so many years ago.
Compliance with the numbers isn't nearly as important as understanding what the numbers signify. Toe is the primary component of tire wear, so for a street driven car, toe is critical. That said, I run toe out on everything I drive these days because I'll suffer a little inner edge wear for a more crisp turn in. If you are track driving your car, you want more toe out than what many would call reasonable (1/8" to 3/16"), and if you autocross, maybe more depending on a lot of other factors- tire choice, temperature, track conditions, etc.
Keep in mind, these specs were intended to make the car wear tires evenly - NOT to provide best mechanical grip! So they are nothing more than a starting point for the informed student. If you have questions, please feel free to PM me. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability.
lance
Compliance with the numbers isn't nearly as important as understanding what the numbers signify. Toe is the primary component of tire wear, so for a street driven car, toe is critical. That said, I run toe out on everything I drive these days because I'll suffer a little inner edge wear for a more crisp turn in. If you are track driving your car, you want more toe out than what many would call reasonable (1/8" to 3/16"), and if you autocross, maybe more depending on a lot of other factors- tire choice, temperature, track conditions, etc.
Keep in mind, these specs were intended to make the car wear tires evenly - NOT to provide best mechanical grip! So they are nothing more than a starting point for the informed student. If you have questions, please feel free to PM me. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability.
lance
Front (L, R)
Camber -3.6, -3.6 degrees
Caster 3.1, 3.0 Cross caster 0.1 degrees
SAI 12.5, 10.8 degrees Cross SAI 1.7
Toe -.03", -.09", total toe -.12" (negative being toe out)
Rear
Camber -2.9, -2.8 degrees cross camber -.01
Toe .13", .16" total toe .3"
Thrust angle -.03 degrees
So, we said since the wear was more on the outside, we would dial in some more camber and see if that flattened out the tire wear. We realigned to:
Front:
Camber -4.2,-4.2 degrees
Caster 2.6, 2.8 degrees
SAI 12.8, 13.2 degrees
Toe -.08, -.05 inches total toe -.12"
Rear:
Camber -3.4, -3.3
Toe .16", .16" total toe .32"
Tire wear was better across the tire on all but the front right tire. This tire had bad wear on the inside edge, when I say bad I mean bad worn through to the steel belts and almost gone. You would think toe, but the left side didn't wear the edge like that, just the right. The course we ran is like most in the US it is predominantly a right hand turn track so your worst wear is on the front left tire. Other than the edge wear, the front right looked fairly even. Can't figure that out. One theory is with all of the negative camber in this side the caster is such that when turning long right this tire gets drug across the track on this edge. The RE71 is very soft and wore out quickly on all sides, but as I said the problem was the inside of this one tire. Interesting thing is the next day we ran all day with no set up change on Falken Azenis and did not experience this wear to the extreme that we saw on the RE71. Very odd. Just curious on your thoughts on this.
Last edited by RXRodger; 08-22-17 at 12:05 PM.
08-31-17, 10:03 PM
#19
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
From a PM reply:
Every tire has unique camber requirements. Did you get temperatures across the tread? I try to set alignment to get as close to even temperature as possible even if it means asymmetric settings. Caster can add to the effects of camber wear at the numbers you are running too, but the clear answer is the RE-71s like different numbers than the Azenis. Were your lap times comparable between the different tires, or were the RE-71s a second or two faster?
Every tire has unique camber requirements. Did you get temperatures across the tread? I try to set alignment to get as close to even temperature as possible even if it means asymmetric settings. Caster can add to the effects of camber wear at the numbers you are running too, but the clear answer is the RE-71s like different numbers than the Azenis. Were your lap times comparable between the different tires, or were the RE-71s a second or two faster?
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