A little info for supra stock front sway bar here.
09-15-14, 08:39 PM
#1
Hi guys, a week ago I bought a mkiv stock sway bar for dirt cheap from sf. I didn't think anything of it, and couldn't find definite answer if they were same as sc or different. By looking at it, it look the same, untill I took my stock one off and put them side by side for comparison, but they were very different!!! Thanks to cl member Boergy, I ended up keeping it after consulting with him. I also did some observation between both bars. Sc bar weighed about 10.4lb based on my bathroom scales and supra bar weighed about 8.2 lb., you can feel the weight difference just by holding them in your hand. Both bars look the same, but are very different and they perform different too. They are curved a little different too. Here are some pics I took while comparing. From the performance stand point, I drove the car for last few days and let me tell you this. The front handles like the stock supra or better!!! ( I reused my energy suspension hard bushings) I love the way it corners now even more, and can't wait to get the rear now( it's still stock sb ) My next move is going to be trd bars, I highly recommend this if you're on the budget and if you like taking corners!!
Install time is 1 hour or so cost time $70 to my door from NJ.
Supra bar has the bushings on it (white line) Sc no bushings blue line
Install time is 1 hour or so cost time $70 to my door from NJ.
Supra bar has the bushings on it (white line) Sc no bushings blue line
Last edited by LEXXIUM; 09-15-14 at 08:46 PM.
09-15-14, 10:11 PM
#2
Interesting! Thanks for making this comparison, LEXXIUM!
This is the one Supra TT suspension part I didn't get because the prevailing consensus was that the front sway bars were just about identical. This shows they clearly are not. I think the TT front bar is also made to clear SMIC piping. At least with the SC front sway bar I found that the lower Soarer SMIC piping does clear but the MKIV SMIC piping is almost perfectly round and of a large diameter.
Can you talk a little more about handling impressions? Have you noticed less understeer and more neutral feel?
The TT rear sway bar swap (and subframe mounts) makes a big difference. You want the 1993.5-1996 TT rear bar which is 22mm diameter. 97-98 TT's got 20mm rear bars. Be aware that you may want to try using stock TT Supra alignment settings or settings close to it once you change the rear. You'll have a greater tendency to oversteer easily if you stay with the factory SC alignment settings.
Your post is giving me food for thought about picking up one of these front TT bars.
This is the one Supra TT suspension part I didn't get because the prevailing consensus was that the front sway bars were just about identical. This shows they clearly are not. I think the TT front bar is also made to clear SMIC piping. At least with the SC front sway bar I found that the lower Soarer SMIC piping does clear but the MKIV SMIC piping is almost perfectly round and of a large diameter.
Can you talk a little more about handling impressions? Have you noticed less understeer and more neutral feel?
The TT rear sway bar swap (and subframe mounts) makes a big difference. You want the 1993.5-1996 TT rear bar which is 22mm diameter. 97-98 TT's got 20mm rear bars. Be aware that you may want to try using stock TT Supra alignment settings or settings close to it once you change the rear. You'll have a greater tendency to oversteer easily if you stay with the factory SC alignment settings.
Your post is giving me food for thought about picking up one of these front TT bars.
09-16-14, 06:34 AM
#3
Kahn,
The rear still has tendency to roll due to luxury ride, so it sways a little more than I want, basically it's not following the front as it's too soft, if I snap the wheel the the right or left, it will oversteer with control right now. My suspension is still on the softer side, but with this bar it firmed the front up a little, and also when I brake hard the cars front doesn't dive as it used to ( but rear does come up a little, because of a stock sb)and also sometimes when I used to take a corner, there was a little bounce and clumsy car feel, which is now reduced.
The big questions I have about the rear bar which is most likely on my next susp. mod, whether I should go aftermarket supra or lexus whiteline with 2 different settings?
I want supra stuff though because it seems to be more track worthy and race ready
Everything is a little more precise in the front, but it could be even better with aftermarket upgrades like trd or whiteline
The rear still has tendency to roll due to luxury ride, so it sways a little more than I want, basically it's not following the front as it's too soft, if I snap the wheel the the right or left, it will oversteer with control right now. My suspension is still on the softer side, but with this bar it firmed the front up a little, and also when I brake hard the cars front doesn't dive as it used to ( but rear does come up a little, because of a stock sb)and also sometimes when I used to take a corner, there was a little bounce and clumsy car feel, which is now reduced.
The big questions I have about the rear bar which is most likely on my next susp. mod, whether I should go aftermarket supra or lexus whiteline with 2 different settings?
I want supra stuff though because it seems to be more track worthy and race ready
Everything is a little more precise in the front, but it could be even better with aftermarket upgrades like trd or whiteline
09-18-14, 11:43 PM
#4
LEXXIUM,
My impression of how these cars can be firmed up is that you have real track suspension options if you stick with MKIV parts. TRD sway bars are liked by the MKIV TT folks and from what I've read the general consensus is you don't need to go farther than that with bars. The OEM TT sway bars and end links are already set up very well from the factory on Supras and to go too aggressive reaches a point of diminishing return at the expense of control. This is why Racelogic, AEM and ProEFI traction control is a popular thing on high horsepower MKIV's. I like Whiteline's products too but I haven't tried an SC specific rear bar for comparison.
I think a significant difference in driving feel comes from the anchor point of the rear TT sway bar on the subframe mounts versus the trunk floor with the SC rear sway bar or an aftermarket SC rear bar. Your wide rear tires are a help as well-- are you running 255-275's?
Initially I found my squirrelly rear end fun but once I put an LSD in it was more of a liability, so I had my alignment settings modified to keep the car more stable unless I really, REALLY tried hard to break the rear loose on NA horsepower (2JZ). The result is very predictable point and squirt handling at speed and less low speed tail-happy fun like an FR-S (having driven two of them I love those cars on their own terms). I've yet to take it to a racetrack but I'm pretty confident about the handling and tire choice as-is to give it a try and find a ceiling and try TRD bars. Just need more power now, lol.
I'd recommend converting the rear of your car to use an OEM TT rear bar or switch to TRD TT bars if you can still find them but really all you need to start with is a 93.5-96 TT rear bar and some mounts. I believe I had to retain the MKIV TT rear end links for installation. Try tuning the alignment once you've gone that far before spending more on more track oriented sways. Are you running Bilstein AK shocks with your S-Tech's?
My impression of how these cars can be firmed up is that you have real track suspension options if you stick with MKIV parts. TRD sway bars are liked by the MKIV TT folks and from what I've read the general consensus is you don't need to go farther than that with bars. The OEM TT sway bars and end links are already set up very well from the factory on Supras and to go too aggressive reaches a point of diminishing return at the expense of control. This is why Racelogic, AEM and ProEFI traction control is a popular thing on high horsepower MKIV's. I like Whiteline's products too but I haven't tried an SC specific rear bar for comparison.
I think a significant difference in driving feel comes from the anchor point of the rear TT sway bar on the subframe mounts versus the trunk floor with the SC rear sway bar or an aftermarket SC rear bar. Your wide rear tires are a help as well-- are you running 255-275's?
Initially I found my squirrelly rear end fun but once I put an LSD in it was more of a liability, so I had my alignment settings modified to keep the car more stable unless I really, REALLY tried hard to break the rear loose on NA horsepower (2JZ). The result is very predictable point and squirt handling at speed and less low speed tail-happy fun like an FR-S (having driven two of them I love those cars on their own terms). I've yet to take it to a racetrack but I'm pretty confident about the handling and tire choice as-is to give it a try and find a ceiling and try TRD bars. Just need more power now, lol.
I'd recommend converting the rear of your car to use an OEM TT rear bar or switch to TRD TT bars if you can still find them but really all you need to start with is a 93.5-96 TT rear bar and some mounts. I believe I had to retain the MKIV TT rear end links for installation. Try tuning the alignment once you've gone that far before spending more on more track oriented sways. Are you running Bilstein AK shocks with your S-Tech's?
Last edited by KahnBB6; 09-19-14 at 11:51 PM.
09-19-14, 10:05 AM
#5
Thanks for the great info man!!!!
Yes,I'm am on ak bilsteins and teins stechs right now, but just got some hypercoil 650lb springs to go for the front with the sleeves... Can't wait.
I don't mind a closer to track setup, because it's more fun and I don't drive her daily.
The supra rear sway it is then, just because I want to squeeze as much performance out my suspension as I can without spending too much cash, and have more fun
Yes,I'm am on ak bilsteins and teins stechs right now, but just got some hypercoil 650lb springs to go for the front with the sleeves... Can't wait.
I don't mind a closer to track setup, because it's more fun and I don't drive her daily.
The supra rear sway it is then, just because I want to squeeze as much performance out my suspension as I can without spending too much cash, and have more fun
Last edited by LEXXIUM; 09-19-14 at 11:23 AM.
09-20-14, 12:15 AM
#6
And just the same, I think you've piqued my interest in getting a stock TT front sway bar for mine 
I think you'll like the rear setup. Getting a good set of TT rear subframe mounts may be the toughest thing unless you want to buy them new from Toyota. New rubber bushings for the bar to attach to those mounts plus a new set of the metal U-brackets are cheap. Hopefully the swaybar you get will have good MKIV end links that come with it because you will need those too. Definitely look into using an alignment shop that will do something close to an MKIV TT alignment or modified Lance MKIV TT alignment (because of differences in the SC rear you can't match the specs precisely but you can get close).
I'm on the same Bilstein AK's and Hypercoil 600lb front and 325lb rear springs and mine is a daily. I have considered swapping them out for 500lb/250lb Hypercoils to take the edge off but handling is very flat, predictable and 95% of the time it's never an issue. A badly maintained road is a bad no matter what you drive over it. Technical mountain roads are a joy. Much of the time I still feel like I'm driving a Lexus, just with a suspension that feels like something they should have offered on the order sheet.
I think you'll like the rear setup. Getting a good set of TT rear subframe mounts may be the toughest thing unless you want to buy them new from Toyota. New rubber bushings for the bar to attach to those mounts plus a new set of the metal U-brackets are cheap. Hopefully the swaybar you get will have good MKIV end links that come with it because you will need those too. Definitely look into using an alignment shop that will do something close to an MKIV TT alignment or modified Lance MKIV TT alignment (because of differences in the SC rear you can't match the specs precisely but you can get close).
I'm on the same Bilstein AK's and Hypercoil 600lb front and 325lb rear springs and mine is a daily. I have considered swapping them out for 500lb/250lb Hypercoils to take the edge off but handling is very flat, predictable and 95% of the time it's never an issue. A badly maintained road is a bad no matter what you drive over it. Technical mountain roads are a joy. Much of the time I still feel like I'm driving a Lexus, just with a suspension that feels like something they should have offered on the order sheet.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 09-20-14 at 12:22 AM.
10-01-14, 09:22 PM
#7
I thought I'd post this thread. Check FLZ_Boy's responses. He's a very informed guy who does a lot with his NA MKIV on the track.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ar-differences
The takeaway is that, comparing an NA MKIV to a TT MKIV the front sway bars are no different. The 93.5-96 rears are, however (20mm NA vs 22mm TT). From 97-98 even the rear sway bars are the same for NA and TT cars.
Compare an SC front swaybar to any MKIV front sway bar, however, and we see the differences above.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ar-differences
The takeaway is that, comparing an NA MKIV to a TT MKIV the front sway bars are no different. The 93.5-96 rears are, however (20mm NA vs 22mm TT). From 97-98 even the rear sway bars are the same for NA and TT cars.
Compare an SC front swaybar to any MKIV front sway bar, however, and we see the differences above.
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