Longish Pedal Travel Before Brakes Engage.
06-17-13, 11:08 AM
#1
Longish Pedal Travel Before Brakes Engage.
Hi,
I drove my mother in laws newish Audi yesterday (just after my Sc) and almost launched myself through the front window on the first stop because I was used to my brakes.
My brakes don't engage until an inch or two of pedal travel and I had not driven another car in some time. The Audi starts stopping the car noticeably better right away. My mechanic said that my pads were good and we just put in Goodridge SS lines. We bled the lines manually.
What could be wrong with them and how can I get them to brake firmly immediately? Is there an adjustment? Can it be air still in the lines? They have felt this way since I got the car I believe.
I drove my mother in laws newish Audi yesterday (just after my Sc) and almost launched myself through the front window on the first stop because I was used to my brakes.
My brakes don't engage until an inch or two of pedal travel and I had not driven another car in some time. The Audi starts stopping the car noticeably better right away. My mechanic said that my pads were good and we just put in Goodridge SS lines. We bled the lines manually.
What could be wrong with them and how can I get them to brake firmly immediately? Is there an adjustment? Can it be air still in the lines? They have felt this way since I got the car I believe.
06-17-13, 03:21 PM
#3
I've noticed that a lot of newer cars have crazy sensitive brake pedals that just take a bit of getting used to.. Unless your brake pedal in the SC feels squishy or has to be pressed all the way to the floor to stop, that it's normal for a car of that age.
06-17-13, 03:55 PM
#4
No, not all the way to the floor but it feels noticeably low, lower than older cars I have had i think. The strange thing is that you feel NO braking at all for the first inch or two. Now even a mild reduction in speed.
06-17-13, 05:26 PM
#5
Bleed them again with a power bleeder.
I know the theory is that a power bleeder may aerate the fluid but in practice, I have never gotten my brakes bled well without one.
For me, it was worth buying one since both the track Z and the Cobra actually use the same brake reservoir cap and they get bled annually for race reason. Turns it into a one man job and cuts it down to less than 5 minutes total once the wheels are off the car.
I know the theory is that a power bleeder may aerate the fluid but in practice, I have never gotten my brakes bled well without one.
For me, it was worth buying one since both the track Z and the Cobra actually use the same brake reservoir cap and they get bled annually for race reason. Turns it into a one man job and cuts it down to less than 5 minutes total once the wheels are off the car.
06-18-13, 04:02 AM
#7
Bleed them again with a power bleeder.
I know the theory is that a power bleeder may aerate the fluid but in practice, I have never gotten my brakes bled well without one.
For me, it was worth buying one since both the track Z and the Cobra actually use the same brake reservoir cap and they get bled annually for race reason. Turns it into a one man job and cuts it down to less than 5 minutes total once the wheels are off the car.
I know the theory is that a power bleeder may aerate the fluid but in practice, I have never gotten my brakes bled well without one.
For me, it was worth buying one since both the track Z and the Cobra actually use the same brake reservoir cap and they get bled annually for race reason. Turns it into a one man job and cuts it down to less than 5 minutes total once the wheels are off the car.
A4 I believe. I don't expect it to feel the same way, It just reminded me of how LOW my brake point is. It just does not feel quite right.
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06-18-13, 05:23 AM
#8
Different cars have different engagement points. Same goes with clutches. Same goes with modern DBW throttles. Brake pad selection will have the largest impact on the brake feel once engaged. Low-dust-low-noise pads will always have gradual slowing with a very easy to modulate initial feel and never really feel 'grabby'. An aggressive dust-storm high-torque rotor-munching race pad will break your face the second the pads graze the rotor. Somewhere in between is the pad you want for a car like ours that's not quite a minivan and not quite Formula 1.
German sedans generally have more aggressive OEM pads than their japanese and american counterparts as OEM. If bleeding doesn't fix the feel, go with an aggressive street pad like EBC yellows. It may make the brakes feel grabby enough for ya
edit:
As a quick test, go to your car. Keep it off. Push on the brake a dozen times or so. It should become noticeably firm. If it feels like your foot travels downward and then eventually steps on a rock, you're lines are air free. If the travel ends with the feeling of stepping on a semi-firm spring, you have air. This is usually a pretty decent approximation if you have stainless brake lines.
Last edited by INTIMAZY; 06-18-13 at 05:26 AM.
06-18-13, 08:00 AM
#9
I feel your issue is most likely air in the lines since I wouldn't describe my stock brakes to have long travel at all, especially compared to Mustangs and Corvettes. Even with the Supra TT brakes the travel is still not excessively long.
Different cars have different engagement points. Same goes with clutches. Same goes with modern DBW throttles. Brake pad selection will have the largest impact on the brake feel once engaged. Low-dust-low-noise pads will always have gradual slowing with a very easy to modulate initial feel and never really feel 'grabby'. An aggressive dust-storm high-torque rotor-munching race pad will break your face the second the pads graze the rotor. Somewhere in between is the pad you want for a car like ours that's not quite a minivan and not quite Formula 1.
German sedans generally have more aggressive OEM pads than their japanese and american counterparts as OEM. If bleeding doesn't fix the feel, go with an aggressive street pad like EBC yellows. It may make the brakes feel grabby enough for ya
edit:
As a quick test, go to your car. Keep it off. Push on the brake a dozen times or so. It should become noticeably firm. If it feels like your foot travels downward and then eventually steps on a rock, you're lines are air free. If the travel ends with the feeling of stepping on a semi-firm spring, you have air. This is usually a pretty decent approximation if you have stainless brake lines.
Different cars have different engagement points. Same goes with clutches. Same goes with modern DBW throttles. Brake pad selection will have the largest impact on the brake feel once engaged. Low-dust-low-noise pads will always have gradual slowing with a very easy to modulate initial feel and never really feel 'grabby'. An aggressive dust-storm high-torque rotor-munching race pad will break your face the second the pads graze the rotor. Somewhere in between is the pad you want for a car like ours that's not quite a minivan and not quite Formula 1.
German sedans generally have more aggressive OEM pads than their japanese and american counterparts as OEM. If bleeding doesn't fix the feel, go with an aggressive street pad like EBC yellows. It may make the brakes feel grabby enough for ya
edit:
As a quick test, go to your car. Keep it off. Push on the brake a dozen times or so. It should become noticeably firm. If it feels like your foot travels downward and then eventually steps on a rock, you're lines are air free. If the travel ends with the feeling of stepping on a semi-firm spring, you have air. This is usually a pretty decent approximation if you have stainless brake lines.
Great, useful, info!
I will test that when I get to the car. I will try a power bleeder at a shop today too.
Thank You!
06-21-13, 11:08 AM
#11
I just did put new Hawk HPS+ Pads along with SS Brake lines, and ATE Super blue in my GF's new Si. Once I put them on, I had the same issue and it didn't start grabbing till the pedal was almost to the floor. Come to find out I had air in the master cylinder, once I bled the master cylinder the pedal feel returned to normal. So I would suggest bleeding the master cylinder then the brakes right after. Also don't forget to properly bed (and no that's not a typo) the brakes.
06-21-13, 12:47 PM
#12
I just did put new Hawk HPS+ Pads along with SS Brake lines, and ATE Super blue in my GF's new Si. Once I put them on, I had the same issue and it didn't start grabbing till the pedal was almost to the floor. Come to find out I had air in the master cylinder, once I bled the master cylinder the pedal feel returned to normal. So I would suggest bleeding the master cylinder then the brakes right after. Also don't forget to properly bed (and no that's not a typo) the brakes.
I'm on that!
Thank you!
06-21-13, 01:03 PM
#13
Be careful when bleeding the master cylinder. It's a little different then bleeding brakes. There are two lines coming from the BMC. They work diagonally, one line operates left front and right rear, and then vice versa for the other line. Doesn't matter what order you do them.
You'll want a partner to help.
1. Have partner pump the brakes 5 times, on the 5th pump have them hold it.
2. Loosen both nuts holding the lines on while the pedal is pushed, then the pedal should allow another 1/4 inch of travel and have your partner push harder.
3. Tighten both nuts back down. Never under any circumstance have your partner let off the brakes while those two nuts are loose, that will get air into the BMC again and you'll have to repeat the process.
4. Repeat steps 1-3, five times, then bleed the brakes, and start with the caliper furthest from the BMC.
Lemme know if you need any help.
You'll want a partner to help.
1. Have partner pump the brakes 5 times, on the 5th pump have them hold it.
2. Loosen both nuts holding the lines on while the pedal is pushed, then the pedal should allow another 1/4 inch of travel and have your partner push harder.
3. Tighten both nuts back down. Never under any circumstance have your partner let off the brakes while those two nuts are loose, that will get air into the BMC again and you'll have to repeat the process.
4. Repeat steps 1-3, five times, then bleed the brakes, and start with the caliper furthest from the BMC.
Lemme know if you need any help.
Last edited by Toyboxx; 06-21-13 at 01:06 PM.
06-21-13, 01:19 PM
#14
Be careful when bleeding the master cylinder. It's a little different then bleeding brakes. There are two lines coming from the BMC. They work diagonally, one line operates left front and right rear, and then vice versa for the other line. Doesn't matter what order you do them.
You'll want a partner to help.
1. Have partner pump the brakes 5 times, on the 5th pump have them hold it.
2. Loosen both nuts holding the lines on while the pedal is pushed, then the pedal should allow another 1/4 inch of travel and have your partner push harder.
3. Tighten both nuts back down. Never under any circumstance have your partner let off the brakes while those two nuts are loose, that will get air into the BMC again and you'll have to repeat the process.
4. Repeat steps 1-3, five times, then bleed the brakes, and start with the caliper furthest from the BMC.
Lemme know if you need any help.
You'll want a partner to help.
1. Have partner pump the brakes 5 times, on the 5th pump have them hold it.
2. Loosen both nuts holding the lines on while the pedal is pushed, then the pedal should allow another 1/4 inch of travel and have your partner push harder.
3. Tighten both nuts back down. Never under any circumstance have your partner let off the brakes while those two nuts are loose, that will get air into the BMC again and you'll have to repeat the process.
4. Repeat steps 1-3, five times, then bleed the brakes, and start with the caliper furthest from the BMC.
Lemme know if you need any help.
Toyboxx,
I have saved that in my notes for the next time. I am going to chicken out on this one and take it to a shop. I will take these notes with me to the shop as well. I put on the SS lines and it was my first time touching my brakes. As this was the outcome (not perfect), i want a pro to touch them next. I often fear general mechanics won't know idiosyncrasies of the Sc so I am happy to have notes to show them.
If you come up with anything else to add to the list for them, please add it.
Thank you,
SG
I'd like to go to a place with a bleeder machine.
Last edited by Studiogeek; 06-21-13 at 01:35 PM.
