2001 GS430 Front Suspension Refresh
08-21-12, 03:27 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
2001 GS430 Front Suspension Refresh
Hi folks, I've spent the last few hours reading all the front suspension stickies at the top of the page and think I have a pretty good idea of what is out there any how to proceed.
The background to all this... I recently brought my 2001 GS430 into the Pleasanton, CA Lexus service center to get the wheels rebalanced. During that time, they have me a 2012 IS250 as a temporary loaner. The first thing I noticed about the loaner car is how tight the steering felt putting me in touch with the road. Once I got my own car back, I really started to nit-pick the little suspension annoyances here and there. Just to be clear, there is no major glaring issue but rather little subtle things I notice here and there on occassion. For example, when going over big bumps at low speed I can sometimes hear a faint clunk. Or when transitioning between drive and reverse or vice-versa, there sometimes is a "clink" in the suspension. Or when applying the brakes aggressively during a sharp turn in a parking lot for example, I can hear a minor growl. It's all minor stuff and other members of my family don't even notice any of this, but I'm more hypervigilent I guess and it bothers me.
I'm going after the suspension, but at the same time I'm acknowledging that there is a possibility that this stuff may be related to the brakes and not the suspension. I read a while ago that there may be a small screw that holds the rotor in position on the hub. And if this screw is missing, the rotor is free to rotate back and forth a degree or two allowing it to hit the studs back and forth as the car alternates between drive and reverse or reverse and drive? Is there such a screw and if so can anyone identify it by part number or within Sewell's diagrams? Also, I've been reading that if your brake pads are missing the required clips, it can sound like a suspension bushing problem when it's not. Now onto the parts list:
1.) Balljoints - This is a no brainer since it's arguably the most frequently replaced suspension component in the 2GS world. I can go on and on about how dissappointed I am with Lexus for not over engineering these balljoints for additional durability but I will refrain. They are $65 per side from Sewell with the CL discount.
Right Part#: 4333039535
Left Part#: 4334039415
2.) Outer Tie Rods - It's typically a good idea to replace these at the same time as the balljoints. They are $99 from Sewell:
Part#: 454605901502
I'm debating whether to replace the inners at the same time? Typically if that ball/socket joint has play on the inners, it will be obvious right away. If you've ever seen a bad inner tie rod, it's completely obvious whether it's bad or not since you can push the ball in and out of the socket and there's almost always a clicking. I'll probably take the chance here and avoid buying the inners in advance. When I'm in there I'll check for play and make an emergency over-night order if necessary.
3.) Caster Arm Bushings and Lower Control Arm #2 - I originally planned on replacing the whole caster arm and control arm, but the cost is pretty high with the caster arms costing $240 for the pair and the lower control arm costing just under $400 for the pair. Although pressing bushings will have to be done by a machine shop, I'm considering buying the bushings from ROCA and having them pressed into my current arms. I notice that you can find distributors on ebay that are selling the pair for about $50 per side (for both caster and control arm):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roca-Lexus-G...a17789&vxp=mtr
Can anyone comment on ROCA quality? Does this brand have a good reputation?
I've read mixed opinions on the poly caster bushings and would rather stay with rubber on this one.
4.) Steering Rack Bushings - This is a no brainer. There's no moving parts to worry about, no squeaking concerns, so it will be stiff poly Daizen from Sewell on this one for $31.
Part# 207
5.) Sway Bar Bushings - I've done poly on sway bar bushings in the past and quickly regretted it. The poly lube does a great job for a few weeks/months, but that annoying squeaking starts to emerge soon after that first rain. Since I don't like to do things twice and hate to relube bushings, this one is going to stay rubber at $14.25 x 2 from Sewell:
Part# 4881530540
6.) Sway Bar End Links - Sewell has these for $93 a piece. Am I missing something? They don't look gold plated from the pics I've seen so I am puzzled as to why they are so expensive! I do notice that both MOOG and ROCA make these for about 1/2 the price of Lexus. I typically like to stick with Lexus brand when I can, but I think I'll give the ROCA or MOOG's a shot on this one:
ROCA: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCA-GS300-J...ccca76&vxp=mtr
MOOG: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-Sway-Ba...e5dfca&vxp=mtr
I hope to add onto this thread as I get around to it.
BayAreaLex
The background to all this... I recently brought my 2001 GS430 into the Pleasanton, CA Lexus service center to get the wheels rebalanced. During that time, they have me a 2012 IS250 as a temporary loaner. The first thing I noticed about the loaner car is how tight the steering felt putting me in touch with the road. Once I got my own car back, I really started to nit-pick the little suspension annoyances here and there. Just to be clear, there is no major glaring issue but rather little subtle things I notice here and there on occassion. For example, when going over big bumps at low speed I can sometimes hear a faint clunk. Or when transitioning between drive and reverse or vice-versa, there sometimes is a "clink" in the suspension. Or when applying the brakes aggressively during a sharp turn in a parking lot for example, I can hear a minor growl. It's all minor stuff and other members of my family don't even notice any of this, but I'm more hypervigilent I guess and it bothers me.
I'm going after the suspension, but at the same time I'm acknowledging that there is a possibility that this stuff may be related to the brakes and not the suspension. I read a while ago that there may be a small screw that holds the rotor in position on the hub. And if this screw is missing, the rotor is free to rotate back and forth a degree or two allowing it to hit the studs back and forth as the car alternates between drive and reverse or reverse and drive? Is there such a screw and if so can anyone identify it by part number or within Sewell's diagrams? Also, I've been reading that if your brake pads are missing the required clips, it can sound like a suspension bushing problem when it's not. Now onto the parts list:
1.) Balljoints - This is a no brainer since it's arguably the most frequently replaced suspension component in the 2GS world. I can go on and on about how dissappointed I am with Lexus for not over engineering these balljoints for additional durability but I will refrain. They are $65 per side from Sewell with the CL discount.
Right Part#: 4333039535
Left Part#: 4334039415
2.) Outer Tie Rods - It's typically a good idea to replace these at the same time as the balljoints. They are $99 from Sewell:
Part#: 454605901502
I'm debating whether to replace the inners at the same time? Typically if that ball/socket joint has play on the inners, it will be obvious right away. If you've ever seen a bad inner tie rod, it's completely obvious whether it's bad or not since you can push the ball in and out of the socket and there's almost always a clicking. I'll probably take the chance here and avoid buying the inners in advance. When I'm in there I'll check for play and make an emergency over-night order if necessary.
3.) Caster Arm Bushings and Lower Control Arm #2 - I originally planned on replacing the whole caster arm and control arm, but the cost is pretty high with the caster arms costing $240 for the pair and the lower control arm costing just under $400 for the pair. Although pressing bushings will have to be done by a machine shop, I'm considering buying the bushings from ROCA and having them pressed into my current arms. I notice that you can find distributors on ebay that are selling the pair for about $50 per side (for both caster and control arm):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roca-Lexus-G...a17789&vxp=mtr
Can anyone comment on ROCA quality? Does this brand have a good reputation?
I've read mixed opinions on the poly caster bushings and would rather stay with rubber on this one.
4.) Steering Rack Bushings - This is a no brainer. There's no moving parts to worry about, no squeaking concerns, so it will be stiff poly Daizen from Sewell on this one for $31.
Part# 207
5.) Sway Bar Bushings - I've done poly on sway bar bushings in the past and quickly regretted it. The poly lube does a great job for a few weeks/months, but that annoying squeaking starts to emerge soon after that first rain. Since I don't like to do things twice and hate to relube bushings, this one is going to stay rubber at $14.25 x 2 from Sewell:
Part# 4881530540
6.) Sway Bar End Links - Sewell has these for $93 a piece. Am I missing something? They don't look gold plated from the pics I've seen so I am puzzled as to why they are so expensive! I do notice that both MOOG and ROCA make these for about 1/2 the price of Lexus. I typically like to stick with Lexus brand when I can, but I think I'll give the ROCA or MOOG's a shot on this one:
ROCA: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCA-GS300-J...ccca76&vxp=mtr
MOOG: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-Sway-Ba...e5dfca&vxp=mtr
I hope to add onto this thread as I get around to it.
BayAreaLex
Last edited by BayAreaLex; 11-05-12 at 05:05 PM.
08-21-12, 09:21 PM
#3
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Why are you even bother asking these question? Just do it
I have heard folks having a lot of luck with ROCA and Moogs. I think your listing is very well covered the front Suspensions. I would definitely like to hear the result of the completely overhaul.
You may want to add to your things to change list, the steering bushings as well(3 pieces to be exactly). It may help improve/regain the road feel. There also some rear related bushing suspension components purchased from Japan. Other members have gathered here and there. Anyway, I replaced Lower Ball Joints and Caster Arm "LCA #2" both OEM. I can feel difference with just those two components on my GS300. I am in the market for a V8 right now. Once I found the car. These things you metioned will be on my MOD list. Keep us posted.
don't forget the strut mount.
You may want to add to your things to change list, the steering bushings as well(3 pieces to be exactly). It may help improve/regain the road feel. There also some rear related bushing suspension components purchased from Japan. Other members have gathered here and there. Anyway, I replaced Lower Ball Joints and Caster Arm "LCA #2" both OEM. I can feel difference with just those two components on my GS300. I am in the market for a V8 right now. Once I found the car. These things you metioned will be on my MOD list. Keep us posted.
don't forget the strut mount.
Last edited by GS714; 08-21-12 at 09:27 PM.
08-27-12, 05:31 PM
#5
I purchased ROCA bushings off amazon for both upper and lower control arms. Had to send them back....they had cracks in them. I ended up just purchasing new upper and lower control arms. Might as well get everything new.
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11-05-12, 04:20 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
Update 11/5/12
Hi folks, just wanted to pop in and update this post.
As some of you may have read, my 2001 Lexus GS430 had a couple subtle annoying problems that I was determined to address:
1.) Light steering wheel shimmy at 55-65mph on the highway
2.) Very faint "clink" at low speeds when going over road imperfections.
I started off with the usual wheel balancing and hubcentric rings on my redrilled BMW wheels. This combination helped, but definitely did not cure the problem. I took the car to the local Lexus dealer who reported that they didn't see anything wrong and weren't willing to chase it. I also took the car to a local mechanic who informed me that there was nothing glarring, but that the caster arm bushings did have some cracking. I guess that was expected after 95K miles.
I then progressed to replacing the caster arm bushings and while I was in there I also did the steering rack bushings... Both Sewell polyurethane. Those parts improved the road feel considerably and minimized the steering shimmy I had been experiencing. Not completely gone, but an improvement.
I was sitting on Tanabe NF210 springs which offered a great ride but I wanted to go lower. So I installed a set of Megan LP coilovers (12kg/mm and 8kg/mm rate).
After the caster arm bushings and coilovers, I thought it would be a good idea to get an alignment. I wasn't going to do this with the stock tie rod ends and balljoints however. I got on rockauto.com and ordered MOOG balljoints for $35 each and MOOG tie rod ends for $17 each. After installing these parts and the alignment, the steering wheel shimmy is 100% history.
OH LAWD I'm Happy!
Now to be fair I am still chasing that faint "clink" over bumps and have a hunch that it is the sway bar end/links and/or sway bar bushings which I've ordered from rockauto.com and are on the way. I'm hopeful that cures it and I'm set...
There's a lot of folks on this forum that claim that our cars are proned to shimmy and it's normal. It's true that while our cars are more proned to shimmy than many other cars, it's not normal and don't accept it! If your steering wheel is going nuts on the highway, there is a reason and it's curable.
Will report back soon about the sway bar...
As some of you may have read, my 2001 Lexus GS430 had a couple subtle annoying problems that I was determined to address:
1.) Light steering wheel shimmy at 55-65mph on the highway
2.) Very faint "clink" at low speeds when going over road imperfections.
I started off with the usual wheel balancing and hubcentric rings on my redrilled BMW wheels. This combination helped, but definitely did not cure the problem. I took the car to the local Lexus dealer who reported that they didn't see anything wrong and weren't willing to chase it. I also took the car to a local mechanic who informed me that there was nothing glarring, but that the caster arm bushings did have some cracking. I guess that was expected after 95K miles.
I then progressed to replacing the caster arm bushings and while I was in there I also did the steering rack bushings... Both Sewell polyurethane. Those parts improved the road feel considerably and minimized the steering shimmy I had been experiencing. Not completely gone, but an improvement.
I was sitting on Tanabe NF210 springs which offered a great ride but I wanted to go lower. So I installed a set of Megan LP coilovers (12kg/mm and 8kg/mm rate).
After the caster arm bushings and coilovers, I thought it would be a good idea to get an alignment. I wasn't going to do this with the stock tie rod ends and balljoints however. I got on rockauto.com and ordered MOOG balljoints for $35 each and MOOG tie rod ends for $17 each. After installing these parts and the alignment, the steering wheel shimmy is 100% history.
OH LAWD I'm Happy!
Now to be fair I am still chasing that faint "clink" over bumps and have a hunch that it is the sway bar end/links and/or sway bar bushings which I've ordered from rockauto.com and are on the way. I'm hopeful that cures it and I'm set...
There's a lot of folks on this forum that claim that our cars are proned to shimmy and it's normal. It's true that while our cars are more proned to shimmy than many other cars, it's not normal and don't accept it! If your steering wheel is going nuts on the highway, there is a reason and it's curable.
Will report back soon about the sway bar...
Last edited by BayAreaLex; 11-05-12 at 04:23 PM.
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ClarkGS430 (05-19-19)
12-13-12, 03:48 PM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
Just thought I'd update this post since I haven't in a while.
I've come a long way with this car but still haven't been able to narrow the clunk/clink/thud in the front end when going over big bumps at low speed. I never seem to hear it when going over the same bumps at high speed. Anyway, just as a recap, the following has been replaced:
- Balljoints
- Caster Arm Bushings
- Steering Rack Bushings
- Outer Tie Rod Ends
- Shocks/Strut Mounts Replaced with Megan LP Coilovers
- Sway Bar End-Links
The Lexus dealer and my independent mechanic don't see anything obvious and claim that the upper control arms and lower control arms look fine (those are stock).
I inspected the sway bar bushings and they look fine, but I am thinking this could be related to the sway bar bushings (someone told me that it could be the sway bar mounting brackets that could be loose from the frame). I got the car in the air to install the sway bar bushings, but they looked fine. I think I will go ahead and install them anyway to be sure.
I can't imagine that it would be a wheel bearing since it's silky smooth on the highway after replacing the parts above.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
BayAreaLex
I've come a long way with this car but still haven't been able to narrow the clunk/clink/thud in the front end when going over big bumps at low speed. I never seem to hear it when going over the same bumps at high speed. Anyway, just as a recap, the following has been replaced:
- Balljoints
- Caster Arm Bushings
- Steering Rack Bushings
- Outer Tie Rod Ends
- Shocks/Strut Mounts Replaced with Megan LP Coilovers
- Sway Bar End-Links
The Lexus dealer and my independent mechanic don't see anything obvious and claim that the upper control arms and lower control arms look fine (those are stock).
I inspected the sway bar bushings and they look fine, but I am thinking this could be related to the sway bar bushings (someone told me that it could be the sway bar mounting brackets that could be loose from the frame). I got the car in the air to install the sway bar bushings, but they looked fine. I think I will go ahead and install them anyway to be sure.
I can't imagine that it would be a wheel bearing since it's silky smooth on the highway after replacing the parts above.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
BayAreaLex
12-22-12, 12:18 PM
#14
Ive got an 05 GS430, (mine has 35k miles) and i've got the same issue over large bumps, and when braking hard, and going from reverse to drive. Just some phantom clunks that don't sound to menacing. I've had this car in the air and inspected the suspension myself, the guys at the dealership have inspected it, and just like you, they said nothing is standing out, and they didn't want to chase the problem. The main stress point on the suspension when switching from drive to reverse has got to be those lower control arm bushings I'm thinking. I am really leaning towards sucking it up and buying those poly's to replace the rubber stockers. I'm not gonna spend all that money on new LCA's that are just going to have the same crappy rubber units it's got now, ESPECIALLY if my rubber's are getting some play after only 35k miles. Keep in mind that was 32k easy female driven miles by a rich doctor's wife with all service up to date, and 3k pretty hard hard miles driven by me.
12-23-12, 05:22 PM
#15
Are you guys sure the clunk is not when you apply the brakes? Did you grease the brakes? Also if someone did a brake job and put the spring in the wrong end (the metal springs that keep the pads from vibrating, you will hear a clunk sometimes when your brakes are applied. The spring that has the extra finger goes in such a way that it pushes the pad in the same direction that the tire rotates when it goes forward (counterclockwise)