Wilwood 6-Piston Full Brake Setup
10-24-02, 05:10 AM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Wilwood 6-Piston Full Brake Setup
Ok folks...a week back, I dropped some info about developing a brake kit system using Brembo calipers.
Well after some research, a better idea came up. Instead of using a set of Brembos (with very, very limited availablity at the price I was trying to offer it at) we decided to use the Wilwood 6-piston setup.
This caliper is AMAZING. It's a CNC machined BILLET aluminum caliper and only weighs 5.2 pounds or so. You have to see this caliper in person to understand how awesome it is. Large yet streamline.
The piston sizes are 41.1 x 28.4 x 28.4....for comparison, the AP Racing setup in my GS430 is 38 x 32 x 27.
The rotor choice is being worked on. It will be at LEAST 13" (x32mm wide). The reason why I say at LEAST is because we are gong to try to fit a larger rotor...basically, the largest rotor we can fit inside the stock 17" GS wheel. These will NOT work in a 16" wheel. So at any rate, we might be able to fit in a 13.25" or something...we'll see.
The rotors will most like come cross-drilled (with chamfered holes) and slotting. CD or Slotted only MIGHT be offered but for right now, I think the CD/Slotted combo is the best choice. There is no reason NOT to have both.
We are also going to sell this setup with the EBC Green Stuff pads. These are nice street pads that have minimal dusting. Anyone with race compound pads can tell you about how badly they dust. Luckily, there is a good section of pads for this. EBC Reds are available as well as 4 compounds from Wilwood. From street to heavy track. We will put out a list of all the pads available if there are any more (like Pagid, Raybestos, etc.) I think most people will be happy with the EBC Green and Reds though.
To answer a question from the other post, the reason why the rotor doesn't look so "large" is because there is no center section (the "hat"). Once that's on there, it will look better in the photos. In real life, it is nice and large. I was VERY VERY impressed with the rotor. Nice finish on it too (I think it's Zinc plated). Also, this rotor in the photos is only a ~26mm wide rotor...we are going to use a ~32mm wide rotor...you want to talk about beefy! I will have better details tommorow or the day after...
Anyways, onto the pictures...I will post information about pricing after you see the pictures...
Here is the caliper and rotor together
Here is the outside of the caliper...the side you will see.
[b]Here is the top of the rotor...nice monoblock design.[b]
Here is are the pistons.
And finally, there is a side picture of the rotor. As you can see, it's directionally vented...and like I said before, this is only a ~26mm wide rotor, we are going to use a ~32mm rotor!
Well after some research, a better idea came up. Instead of using a set of Brembos (with very, very limited availablity at the price I was trying to offer it at) we decided to use the Wilwood 6-piston setup.
This caliper is AMAZING. It's a CNC machined BILLET aluminum caliper and only weighs 5.2 pounds or so. You have to see this caliper in person to understand how awesome it is. Large yet streamline.
The piston sizes are 41.1 x 28.4 x 28.4....for comparison, the AP Racing setup in my GS430 is 38 x 32 x 27.
The rotor choice is being worked on. It will be at LEAST 13" (x32mm wide). The reason why I say at LEAST is because we are gong to try to fit a larger rotor...basically, the largest rotor we can fit inside the stock 17" GS wheel. These will NOT work in a 16" wheel. So at any rate, we might be able to fit in a 13.25" or something...we'll see.
The rotors will most like come cross-drilled (with chamfered holes) and slotting. CD or Slotted only MIGHT be offered but for right now, I think the CD/Slotted combo is the best choice. There is no reason NOT to have both.
We are also going to sell this setup with the EBC Green Stuff pads. These are nice street pads that have minimal dusting. Anyone with race compound pads can tell you about how badly they dust. Luckily, there is a good section of pads for this. EBC Reds are available as well as 4 compounds from Wilwood. From street to heavy track. We will put out a list of all the pads available if there are any more (like Pagid, Raybestos, etc.) I think most people will be happy with the EBC Green and Reds though.
To answer a question from the other post, the reason why the rotor doesn't look so "large" is because there is no center section (the "hat"). Once that's on there, it will look better in the photos. In real life, it is nice and large. I was VERY VERY impressed with the rotor. Nice finish on it too (I think it's Zinc plated). Also, this rotor in the photos is only a ~26mm wide rotor...we are going to use a ~32mm wide rotor...you want to talk about beefy! I will have better details tommorow or the day after...
Anyways, onto the pictures...I will post information about pricing after you see the pictures...
Here is the caliper and rotor together
Here is the outside of the caliper...the side you will see.
[b]Here is the top of the rotor...nice monoblock design.[b]
Here is are the pistons.
And finally, there is a side picture of the rotor. As you can see, it's directionally vented...and like I said before, this is only a ~26mm wide rotor, we are going to use a ~32mm rotor!
Last edited by Manaray; 10-24-02 at 10:41 AM.
10-24-02, 05:20 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Also, with the use of an aluminum hat...the entire weight of the system (rotor, hat, caliper, etc.) is estimated at about 10 pounds LIGHTER than stock. So you'll have 10 pounds LESS PER SIDE of unsprung weight.
Pricing...
Ok, I am going to do a PRE-SELL group of TEN (10) units. These lucky 10 will get the kit for $1795. After that, the price will go to $1995 and that will be the set price from there out. Even at $1995, you can see it's a killer deal. The 4-piston 13" Brembo setup is $2995. The AP Racing 13.5" setup is $3199 and the last group buy sold at $2899. The StopTech 4-piston 13" kit is $2295 (or so) and they said they are looking into lowering to $1895 (for the IS300 though...but the GS kit should be the about the same price).
Anyways...the slots are filling up VERY fast. I already have a ton of email to wade through from Cerberus's post (thanks for posting that Chris!)
Pricing...
Ok, I am going to do a PRE-SELL group of TEN (10) units. These lucky 10 will get the kit for $1795. After that, the price will go to $1995 and that will be the set price from there out. Even at $1995, you can see it's a killer deal. The 4-piston 13" Brembo setup is $2995. The AP Racing 13.5" setup is $3199 and the last group buy sold at $2899. The StopTech 4-piston 13" kit is $2295 (or so) and they said they are looking into lowering to $1895 (for the IS300 though...but the GS kit should be the about the same price).
Anyways...the slots are filling up VERY fast. I already have a ton of email to wade through from Cerberus's post (thanks for posting that Chris!)
10-24-02, 05:28 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Oh yeah, like most big brake kits, these are for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. They are NEVER TO BE USED ON PUBLIC ROADS.
Anyways, I'm going to be installing this setup on my SC400 (and putting on stock 17" GS wheels) and tracking my car like I did last time. Outside of the brakes and the wheels/tires (with some Federal tires...never heard of them but they seem to look ok) and my exhaust system, my car is the same as it was the last time I tracked it. We'll see how much better I can do with my track times now that I will be able to brake SUBSTANTIALLY later than with my stockers...
This should test out all the components in the system under real racing conditions. Last time I went, the stock brakes got SO hot that I couldn't even take off the valve cap (to take out some air out of my tires) because I couldn't get close enough to it...yes, they get that hot...the track is torturous on the brake system.
I will also be switching out my 6-Piston AP Racing system on my GS...more details once it's done.
We will also offer a matching rear rotor setup with pads and steel lines...basically, the same setup as the Group Buy that happened a while back.
If you want to get in on the Pre-Sell, email me NOW at GS430@mac.com....
Oh, only because someone mentioned it in email...this kit is NOT in competition with Pearlpower's 4-piston Wilwood caliper setup. Competely different setup for a completely different customer!
Anyways, I'm going to be installing this setup on my SC400 (and putting on stock 17" GS wheels) and tracking my car like I did last time. Outside of the brakes and the wheels/tires (with some Federal tires...never heard of them but they seem to look ok) and my exhaust system, my car is the same as it was the last time I tracked it. We'll see how much better I can do with my track times now that I will be able to brake SUBSTANTIALLY later than with my stockers...
This should test out all the components in the system under real racing conditions. Last time I went, the stock brakes got SO hot that I couldn't even take off the valve cap (to take out some air out of my tires) because I couldn't get close enough to it...yes, they get that hot...the track is torturous on the brake system.
I will also be switching out my 6-Piston AP Racing system on my GS...more details once it's done.
We will also offer a matching rear rotor setup with pads and steel lines...basically, the same setup as the Group Buy that happened a while back.
If you want to get in on the Pre-Sell, email me NOW at GS430@mac.com....
Oh, only because someone mentioned it in email...this kit is NOT in competition with Pearlpower's 4-piston Wilwood caliper setup. Competely different setup for a completely different customer!
Last edited by Manaray; 10-24-02 at 09:23 AM.
10-24-02, 11:49 AM
#5
Pole Position
Originally posted by Manaray
Oh yeah, like most big brake kits, these are for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. They are NEVER TO BE USED ON PUBLIC ROADS.
[snip]
Oh yeah, like most big brake kits, these are for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. They are NEVER TO BE USED ON PUBLIC ROADS.
[snip]
10-24-02, 01:33 PM
#6
Mr. Johnson,
The "Offroad Use Only" statement was posted by Manaray as a request from the company building this kit. MOST aftermarket parts such as intakes, exhaust, and brakes all state this as well. I have seen this on high performance parts for the last 10 years from back in my Mustang days.
The "Offroad Use Only" statement was posted by Manaray as a request from the company building this kit. MOST aftermarket parts such as intakes, exhaust, and brakes all state this as well. I have seen this on high performance parts for the last 10 years from back in my Mustang days.
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10-24-02, 04:38 PM
#8
Pole Position
Originally posted by Cerberus
Mr. Johnson,
The "Offroad Use Only" statement was posted by Manaray as a request from the company building this kit. MOST aftermarket parts such as intakes, exhaust, and brakes all state this as well. I have seen this on high performance parts for the last 10 years from back in my Mustang days.
Mr. Johnson,
The "Offroad Use Only" statement was posted by Manaray as a request from the company building this kit. MOST aftermarket parts such as intakes, exhaust, and brakes all state this as well. I have seen this on high performance parts for the last 10 years from back in my Mustang days.
BTW: Not doubting but interested, can you point me at such disclaimers?
10-24-02, 08:51 PM
#9
Here is a small part of a disclaimer list from Brembo's website:
"In addition, Brembo parts are NOT to be used with rims or wheels other than the standard OEM types as supplied by OEM."
All manufacturers have these sort of disclaimers somewhere in the "fine print". Manaray just wanted to be up front about it so there will be no surprises.
You are more than welcome to search through the other manufacturer's sites for their "fine print".
"In addition, Brembo parts are NOT to be used with rims or wheels other than the standard OEM types as supplied by OEM."
All manufacturers have these sort of disclaimers somewhere in the "fine print". Manaray just wanted to be up front about it so there will be no surprises.
You are more than welcome to search through the other manufacturer's sites for their "fine print".
10-24-02, 09:17 PM
#10
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Originally posted by Manaray
Also, with the use of an aluminum hat...the entire weight of the system (rotor, hat, caliper, etc.) is estimated at about 10 pounds LIGHTER than stock. So you'll have 10 pounds LESS PER SIDE of unsprung weight.
Pricing...
Ok, I am going to do a PRE-SELL group of TEN (10) units. These lucky 10 will get the kit for $1795. After that, the price will go to $1995 and that will be the set price from there out. Even at $1995, you can see it's a killer deal. The 4-piston 13" Brembo setup is $2995. The AP Racing 13.5" setup is $3199 and the last group buy sold at $2899. The StopTech 4-piston 13" kit is $2295 (or so) and they said they are looking into lowering to $1895 (for the IS300 though...but the GS kit should be the about the same price).
Anyways...the slots are filling up VERY fast. I already have a ton of email to wade through from Cerberus's post (thanks for posting that Chris!)
Also, with the use of an aluminum hat...the entire weight of the system (rotor, hat, caliper, etc.) is estimated at about 10 pounds LIGHTER than stock. So you'll have 10 pounds LESS PER SIDE of unsprung weight.
Pricing...
Ok, I am going to do a PRE-SELL group of TEN (10) units. These lucky 10 will get the kit for $1795. After that, the price will go to $1995 and that will be the set price from there out. Even at $1995, you can see it's a killer deal. The 4-piston 13" Brembo setup is $2995. The AP Racing 13.5" setup is $3199 and the last group buy sold at $2899. The StopTech 4-piston 13" kit is $2295 (or so) and they said they are looking into lowering to $1895 (for the IS300 though...but the GS kit should be the about the same price).
Anyways...the slots are filling up VERY fast. I already have a ton of email to wade through from Cerberus's post (thanks for posting that Chris!)
Keep in mind, even "tha man" Steve Ganze sells the SupraTT set-up for a hair over $1000 with shipping included in that price.... This is NOT alot more than that... I would almost go as far as to say that if this set-up(at Manarays price) would have been available when I did my brakes, I would have spent the extra $$$$ and gone with the Wilwoods.....
IMHO, this is the BEST "bang for the buck" in a six piston application for the GS ....
10-24-02, 09:28 PM
#11
Original CL Sponsor since 1999
OK Manaray.........you had to let it out of the bag, just couldn't wait, could you.......... 
Guys, this is something I was working on with the same company and handed it over to Manaray, he's been involved pretty much from the 1st day since time on my part is not there.............I will have this on my Supra shortly, so yes, I endorse this particular kit if it matters............
This is an incredible price for the 6-piston set-up, we did this all because of ClubLexus, you guys inspired us and care about what goes on your vehicle.
I understand what Mr.Johnson is reffering to, but after putting on my Single Turbo and many other Performance parts" Off-Road use only" was a common label I saw on all my parts, to me this is a standard disclaimer. (I think if they add another $1000.00 on it he can get it removed
Most companies realize performance parts take a higher amount of abuse, some people don't operate there car under normal driving conditions............hmmmm....now who could this be.
All in all, a great brake system, using stock OEM wheels as you requested, stopping power like you wouldn't believe......... I like !!
Guys, this is something I was working on with the same company and handed it over to Manaray, he's been involved pretty much from the 1st day since time on my part is not there.............I will have this on my Supra shortly, so yes, I endorse this particular kit if it matters............
This is an incredible price for the 6-piston set-up, we did this all because of ClubLexus, you guys inspired us and care about what goes on your vehicle.
I understand what Mr.Johnson is reffering to, but after putting on my Single Turbo and many other Performance parts" Off-Road use only" was a common label I saw on all my parts, to me this is a standard disclaimer. (I think if they add another $1000.00 on it he can get it removed
Most companies realize performance parts take a higher amount of abuse, some people don't operate there car under normal driving conditions............hmmmm....now who could this be.All in all, a great brake system, using stock OEM wheels as you requested, stopping power like you wouldn't believe......... I like !!
10-24-02, 09:43 PM
#12
Pole Position
Originally posted by SUPRATRD
[snip]
I think if they add another $1000.00 on it he can get it removed
[snip]
I think if they add another $1000.00 on it he can get it removed
Making sure it fit the stock wheels was an inspiration!
Hopefully you'll get the folks to pony up for this GB.
10-25-02, 01:47 AM
#13
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Re: Wilwood 6-Piston Full Brake Setup
Originally posted by Manaray
Ok folks...a week back, I dropped some info about developing a brake kit system using Brembo calipers.
Well after some research, a better idea came up. Instead of using a set of Brembos (with very, very limited availablity at the price I was trying to offer it at) we decided to use the Wilwood 6-piston setup.
This caliper is AMAZING. It's a CNC machined BILLET aluminum caliper and only weighs 5.2 pounds or so. You have to see this caliper in person to understand how awesome it is. Large yet streamline.
The piston sizes are 41.1 x 28.4 x 28.4....for comparison, the AP Racing setup in my GS430 is 38 x 32 x 27.
Ok folks...a week back, I dropped some info about developing a brake kit system using Brembo calipers.
Well after some research, a better idea came up. Instead of using a set of Brembos (with very, very limited availablity at the price I was trying to offer it at) we decided to use the Wilwood 6-piston setup.
This caliper is AMAZING. It's a CNC machined BILLET aluminum caliper and only weighs 5.2 pounds or so. You have to see this caliper in person to understand how awesome it is. Large yet streamline.
The piston sizes are 41.1 x 28.4 x 28.4....for comparison, the AP Racing setup in my GS430 is 38 x 32 x 27.
edit: Hey TX, I just edited out the rest of my post since it was so long!
Last edited by Manaray; 10-25-02 at 09:09 AM.
10-25-02, 06:50 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Tiny - You know you need this...
GENERAL INFO - Well I spoke to the vendor today and it looks like a 13" rotor is the max size that can safely fit into a stock 17" GS wheel. Now I know a few of you are going to moan about how it won't look "large" behind your 24" wheels and all ...but here is the benefit. If you ever get a flat on your front tire, you can actually use your 17" spare (since it should have a full 17" wheel...if not, get one). That's a huge advantage!
Mariusz - Currently, there are no plans to offer a 14" setup...but if we did, the price would most likely go up to a point where very few people would want to buy it. And as you know, the fewer the people, the more the cost. We'd have to manufacture new hats and brackets and since it would be in such low numbers, the price would go up.
Also, I'm not entirely sure that this caliper can be used with a 14" rotor. Most calipers I believe have a range of rotor sizes that they are recommended to be used with...also, a 14" setup will most likely require a 19" wheel. That means even fewer potential customers.
And a 13.5" setup wouldn't be worth doing because it's neither big enough nor small enough to have the benefits we're looking for.
Honestly, I don't think ANYONE is going to be dissapointed with the size of these once they get it into their car...I'll be running the 13" setup in my SC with 19" wheels...I think I can live with it.
I have received MANY emails on this setup (and a few PM's..PLEASE DO NOT PM ME...EMAIL ME...GS430@MAC.COM) and it looks like the first 10 spots are pretty much filled. I'm only waiting for a couple of confirmations at this point. There is also a waiting list of a few people who will get the spot in case someone in the first 10 drop out.
The response has been so great on this that if I can fill another 10 spots, then we might be able to offer the 2nd group a price of $1895. Otherwise, I'm going to have to cut it at exactly 10 and then the price goes to it's normal price of $1995. Hey, you can't win 'em all.
All I can say is that if this setup was offered when I was looking for brakes for my GS, at a $1200 savings, I would have picked up the Wilwoods over my existing setup in a heartbeat.
Oh a few people have asked for custom colors (like Maruisz). Here is the deal, the calipers come from Wilwood ONLY in anodized black with their logo etched out (so it's like a machined aluminum color...actually, that's exactly what it is!).
Another member has emailed with a place out in Utah that does some special type of coating process...the price ranges from $55 to $90 per caliper.
We have a local powder coating placed that could do it but I'm not sure of the price. I would figure around $100/caliper.
On the "other end" of the spectrum, which isn't necessarily horrible, you can just buy some brake caliper paint and do it yourself (at your own risk..if you mess up, it's all on you.) A few members have done this with their stock calipers and with the Supra TT calipers and have had good results.
So those are the options that we have. If you guys are interested in having us powder coat it for you, let me know.
Again, if you have ANY questions, please post it here or for a faster response, just email me at GS430@mac.com
Thanks for all the interest guys! I hope we can deliver these real soon! I'm very excited to try them out to compare the results to my existing GS430 setup...I'll be running similar compound pads (basically, full bore race pads) on my setup so that a fair comparison can be made...but I will also do it with the standard EBC greens...ah, it'll be nice not to have to clean my wheels every day...
Oh, speaking of pads...I am working on getting a list of pads available for this caliper. Supposidly, there is a lot of them. EBC makes both the Green and Reds for this caliper. Wilwood/PolyMatrix makes EIGHT (8) pads for this caliper. From better than stock to the full bore race pads (dust-o-rama)
Here is a link to all of PolyMatrix's pads...it's quite a crazy list of pads...they have detailed descriptions and charts and graphs and illustration and pictures of the pads and all kinds of data about each pad compound. It should be enough to keep you tech-spec-heads busy for a little while...
http://www.wilwood.org/PolyMatrix%20Catalog.pdf
The caliper we are using uses the following pads according to the catalog...
Compound A - 15A-5938K
Compound B - 15B-5939K
Compound C - 15B-6853K
Compound D - 15D-5935K
Compound E - 15E-6084K
Compound J - 15J-6443K
Compound Q - 15Q-6829K
Compound T - 15T-5916L
It's pad #7420 in the catalog.
GENERAL INFO - Well I spoke to the vendor today and it looks like a 13" rotor is the max size that can safely fit into a stock 17" GS wheel. Now I know a few of you are going to moan about how it won't look "large" behind your 24" wheels and all
...but here is the benefit. If you ever get a flat on your front tire, you can actually use your 17" spare (since it should have a full 17" wheel...if not, get one). That's a huge advantage!Mariusz - Currently, there are no plans to offer a 14" setup...but if we did, the price would most likely go up to a point where very few people would want to buy it. And as you know, the fewer the people, the more the cost. We'd have to manufacture new hats and brackets and since it would be in such low numbers, the price would go up.
Also, I'm not entirely sure that this caliper can be used with a 14" rotor. Most calipers I believe have a range of rotor sizes that they are recommended to be used with...also, a 14" setup will most likely require a 19" wheel. That means even fewer potential customers.
And a 13.5" setup wouldn't be worth doing because it's neither big enough nor small enough to have the benefits we're looking for.
Honestly, I don't think ANYONE is going to be dissapointed with the size of these once they get it into their car...I'll be running the 13" setup in my SC with 19" wheels...I think I can live with it.
I have received MANY emails on this setup (and a few PM's..PLEASE DO NOT PM ME...EMAIL ME...GS430@MAC.COM) and it looks like the first 10 spots are pretty much filled. I'm only waiting for a couple of confirmations at this point. There is also a waiting list of a few people who will get the spot in case someone in the first 10 drop out.
The response has been so great on this that if I can fill another 10 spots, then we might be able to offer the 2nd group a price of $1895. Otherwise, I'm going to have to cut it at exactly 10 and then the price goes to it's normal price of $1995. Hey, you can't win 'em all.
All I can say is that if this setup was offered when I was looking for brakes for my GS, at a $1200 savings, I would have picked up the Wilwoods over my existing setup in a heartbeat.
Oh a few people have asked for custom colors (like Maruisz). Here is the deal, the calipers come from Wilwood ONLY in anodized black with their logo etched out (so it's like a machined aluminum color...actually, that's exactly what it is!).
Another member has emailed with a place out in Utah that does some special type of coating process...the price ranges from $55 to $90 per caliper.
We have a local powder coating placed that could do it but I'm not sure of the price. I would figure around $100/caliper.
On the "other end" of the spectrum, which isn't necessarily horrible, you can just buy some brake caliper paint and do it yourself (at your own risk..if you mess up, it's all on you.) A few members have done this with their stock calipers and with the Supra TT calipers and have had good results.
So those are the options that we have. If you guys are interested in having us powder coat it for you, let me know.
Again, if you have ANY questions, please post it here or for a faster response, just email me at GS430@mac.com
Thanks for all the interest guys! I hope we can deliver these real soon! I'm very excited to try them out to compare the results to my existing GS430 setup...I'll be running similar compound pads (basically, full bore race pads) on my setup so that a fair comparison can be made...but I will also do it with the standard EBC greens...ah, it'll be nice not to have to clean my wheels every day...
Oh, speaking of pads...I am working on getting a list of pads available for this caliper. Supposidly, there is a lot of them. EBC makes both the Green and Reds for this caliper. Wilwood/PolyMatrix makes EIGHT (8) pads for this caliper. From better than stock to the full bore race pads (dust-o-rama)
Here is a link to all of PolyMatrix's pads...it's quite a crazy list of pads...they have detailed descriptions and charts and graphs and illustration and pictures of the pads and all kinds of data about each pad compound. It should be enough to keep you tech-spec-heads busy for a little while...
http://www.wilwood.org/PolyMatrix%20Catalog.pdf
The caliper we are using uses the following pads according to the catalog...
Compound A - 15A-5938K
Compound B - 15B-5939K
Compound C - 15B-6853K
Compound D - 15D-5935K
Compound E - 15E-6084K
Compound J - 15J-6443K
Compound Q - 15Q-6829K
Compound T - 15T-5916L
It's pad #7420 in the catalog.
Last edited by Manaray; 10-25-02 at 10:49 AM.
