stock GS caliper vs Supra TT caliper...
10-08-02, 03:23 AM
#1
stock GS caliper vs Supra TT caliper...
I just finished installing the Supra TT brake upgrade kit that Steve Ganz and his men were responsible for putting together. Nothing like a DIY project! And once again, thanks goes to Mr. Steve Ganz for the great deal.
So for all of those that want to know, I had taken the liberty to weigh the parts out of curiosity and for reference purposes.
(Please give and take 1lb more or less for each of the weights because even though I put a 20lbs and 10lbs dumbbells to check if the scale was set properly, a bathroom scale can still be inaccurate).
Supra Front Rotors: 12.7in. diameter - 20lbs
Stock GS Front Rotors: ~11.5in. diameter - 18lbs
Stock GS Rear Rotors: 12in. diameter - 12lbs.
Supra Front Calipers: 4piston - 15lbs.
Stock GS Front Calipers: 2piston - 15lbs.
>>the weight was taken with brakepads installed.
Conclusion>> Despite the "appearance" of the SupraTT Calipers as being heavier, they weigh exactly as much as the stock GS 2piston caliper. The only weight my car gained was from the extra 4lbs due to the larger and slightly heavier 12.7in. front rotors.
So for all of those that want to know, I had taken the liberty to weigh the parts out of curiosity and for reference purposes.
(Please give and take 1lb more or less for each of the weights because even though I put a 20lbs and 10lbs dumbbells to check if the scale was set properly, a bathroom scale can still be inaccurate).
Supra Front Rotors: 12.7in. diameter - 20lbs
Stock GS Front Rotors: ~11.5in. diameter - 18lbs
Stock GS Rear Rotors: 12in. diameter - 12lbs.
Supra Front Calipers: 4piston - 15lbs.
Stock GS Front Calipers: 2piston - 15lbs.
>>the weight was taken with brakepads installed.
Conclusion>> Despite the "appearance" of the SupraTT Calipers as being heavier, they weigh exactly as much as the stock GS 2piston caliper. The only weight my car gained was from the extra 4lbs due to the larger and slightly heavier 12.7in. front rotors.
10-08-02, 05:41 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
That's some great information there! Thanks for taking the time to post that information! Glad to know that the Supra TT setup isn't much heavier...
So how is the brake upgrade in terms of performance? Have you noticed better stopping power? Did you get steel braided lines?
So how is the brake upgrade in terms of performance? Have you noticed better stopping power? Did you get steel braided lines?
10-08-02, 09:50 AM
#4
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Originally posted by Manaray
So how is the brake upgrade in terms of performance? Have you noticed better stopping power? Did you get steel braided lines?
So how is the brake upgrade in terms of performance? Have you noticed better stopping power? Did you get steel braided lines?
Manaray, I'll chip in on your question in addition to what Zenki might. I've got the Supra TT brakes, EBC pads and cad plated/cross drilled rotors. Stock brakes rear, ebc pads and cad plated/cross drilled rotors. I had SS lines before the brake upgrade (and kept them).
With the upgrade I've noticed a significant improvement in pedal stiffness and general braking feel. Wishy washy stopping is GONE.
I did some very hard braking tests and was amazed by the stopping power - but I can't say that if I pushed the stock brakes down they wouldn't have stopped me nearly as hard. I've noticed NO brake fade in hard driving with the new brakes (every now and then I think I would detect some in the older brakes).
10-09-02, 03:05 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
mcg...you need LOTS more room/aka high disk...supra tt calipers are BIG compare to stock..
i compared high and normal disk in great detail as i also considered tt calipers long ago. same wheel 19x8.5 or 19x9 high disk usually lose at least 1-1.25" lip compare to same rim, normal disk...such translates ROOM for the calipers.
i compared high and normal disk in great detail as i also considered tt calipers long ago. same wheel 19x8.5 or 19x9 high disk usually lose at least 1-1.25" lip compare to same rim, normal disk...such translates ROOM for the calipers.
10-09-02, 03:55 AM
#7
manaray: nope, I didn't manage to get the steel braided brake lines yet... ran out of funds. Do'h! But I will get them as soon as I can. Hopefully soon.
Ok, as for testing the brakes, I haven't broken them in yet (the 100miles or so). But, so far so good in terms of how the brakes feel without the SSlines.
As for other key notes I noticed after install (I don't know if this is common when changing rotors and pads at the same time), there was noticeable squeaking coming from the rear rotors. Fortunately, the noise began to fade once the brakes started to settle in. I've got 70miles already put in, and the noise has gone down significantly.
Also, for those that have wheel vibration especially at freeway speeds. When I upgraded my rims to 18's a couple of weeks ago, the car vibrated at around 63-65mph on the freeway, which never happened with the stock 16's.
But for some reason, after the Supra TT brake install, the vibration disappeared! I swear I'm not lying! I realized this today during my commute to school. At first I thought that maybe the vibration would occur at higher or maybe lower speeds, BUT NOPE! ALL GONE!
I hope this info helps some of you.
Ok, as for testing the brakes, I haven't broken them in yet (the 100miles or so). But, so far so good in terms of how the brakes feel without the SSlines.
As for other key notes I noticed after install (I don't know if this is common when changing rotors and pads at the same time), there was noticeable squeaking coming from the rear rotors. Fortunately, the noise began to fade once the brakes started to settle in. I've got 70miles already put in, and the noise has gone down significantly.
Also, for those that have wheel vibration especially at freeway speeds. When I upgraded my rims to 18's a couple of weeks ago, the car vibrated at around 63-65mph on the freeway, which never happened with the stock 16's.
But for some reason, after the Supra TT brake install, the vibration disappeared! I swear I'm not lying! I realized this today during my commute to school. At first I thought that maybe the vibration would occur at higher or maybe lower speeds, BUT NOPE! ALL GONE!
I hope this info helps some of you.
Trending Topics
10-09-02, 04:14 AM
#8
damn I type slow...
I was typing the last message, and when I finally posted it up, there was like 2 more messages, do'h... I guess I need to work on my typing.
In regards to rims, I honestly have no idea what high disk is, but I'm currently running some Model 5's 18x8, and 18x9, respectively with +30 and +35 offset.
Clearing the Supra Calipers was no problem, matter of fact, I've still got about 10mm of space between the outer most part of the supra caliper from the inner most part of the rim. Sure, they're not the widest rims you can put on a GS, nor do they have the most lip (none at all), but they sure get the job done.
By the way, my rims were flush with the sides prior to the brake installation, and still are after installation, so to answer MCGONG's question... NO, the supra brake setup WILL NOT push your rims further out like what some people have mentioned. When they said the kit was a bolt on, it really is a "bolt on." It will not push out your rims any more than your stock ones do already.
In regards to rims, I honestly have no idea what high disk is, but I'm currently running some Model 5's 18x8, and 18x9, respectively with +30 and +35 offset.
Clearing the Supra Calipers was no problem, matter of fact, I've still got about 10mm of space between the outer most part of the supra caliper from the inner most part of the rim. Sure, they're not the widest rims you can put on a GS, nor do they have the most lip (none at all), but they sure get the job done.
By the way, my rims were flush with the sides prior to the brake installation, and still are after installation, so to answer MCGONG's question... NO, the supra brake setup WILL NOT push your rims further out like what some people have mentioned. When they said the kit was a bolt on, it really is a "bolt on." It will not push out your rims any more than your stock ones do already.
10-09-02, 06:53 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Thanks for the info guys...this will be some good reference material for other members interested in this upgrade...I might go this route with my SC...
Zenki, you have the Advan Model 5's? Hehehe...those have PLENTY of brake clearance...in addition to what Will said, the design of the wheel will also determine clearance
Zenki, you have the Advan Model 5's? Hehehe...those have PLENTY of brake clearance...in addition to what Will said, the design of the wheel will also determine clearance
10-09-02, 04:44 PM
#11
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ca
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just did this exact upgrade to my dad's SC430. I was suprised as well that it is a direct replacement. The caliper needs no bracket or any adapter to work, just bolts right on using existing hardware.
There were a few other things i noticed that were quite impressive. Not only are the supra rotors larger in diameter, but they are directionally veined as well, meaning that they cool much faster than a straight veined rotor. Also, the brake pad of the supra has a larger contact patch area which also helps.
What bothered me was the fact the fact the supra has not been made for quite some time now, and the SC 430 is brand new, why would Toyota use an inferior set up on their flagship when they already have something much better in their parts bin. It all came down to money. The stock SC brakes work great. Most people would not even test the limits of the stock system. Even though the Sumitomo (Supra TT) calipers are better, they didnt see it needed in their application. The SC stock calipers are cast, which is also why there so heavy. This drops the price of each piece dramatically when compared to the Supra calipers.
Overall, the comparison is completely one sided. The Supra calipers offer much better pedal modulation and pad wear over the stock system. 4 pistons as oppossed to 2 pistons creates more balance braking. Besides all that, it is far more aesthetically pleasing as well.
If someone could help me post pictures, i would be glad to show you guys what my set up looks like.
BTW, i also have plenty of space behind my rim still left.
There were a few other things i noticed that were quite impressive. Not only are the supra rotors larger in diameter, but they are directionally veined as well, meaning that they cool much faster than a straight veined rotor. Also, the brake pad of the supra has a larger contact patch area which also helps.
What bothered me was the fact the fact the supra has not been made for quite some time now, and the SC 430 is brand new, why would Toyota use an inferior set up on their flagship when they already have something much better in their parts bin. It all came down to money. The stock SC brakes work great. Most people would not even test the limits of the stock system. Even though the Sumitomo (Supra TT) calipers are better, they didnt see it needed in their application. The SC stock calipers are cast, which is also why there so heavy. This drops the price of each piece dramatically when compared to the Supra calipers.
Overall, the comparison is completely one sided. The Supra calipers offer much better pedal modulation and pad wear over the stock system. 4 pistons as oppossed to 2 pistons creates more balance braking. Besides all that, it is far more aesthetically pleasing as well.
If someone could help me post pictures, i would be glad to show you guys what my set up looks like.
BTW, i also have plenty of space behind my rim still left.
10-09-02, 06:42 PM
#13
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Originally posted by DocofMind
Even though the Sumitomo (Supra TT) calipers are better, they didnt see it needed in their application.
Even though the Sumitomo (Supra TT) calipers are better, they didnt see it needed in their application.
Couple of thoughts I had as I read your post:
1) I assume GS and SC430 have the same 2 piston brakes. One of the points we should make for folks reading this is that the braking capabilities of the GS4xx (not sure of the SC430) is one of the absolute best out there, even with the stock brakes. In tests I've seen, our car out brakes almost all other high performance sports cars.
What they're NOT so good at is overall brake & pedal 'feel'. They often feel mushy - although they'll stop the snot out of you if you stomp them hard. When I first got my car I found myself almost drifting into the back of other stopped cars because I expected my car to stop sooner.
Larger 4 piston brakes will do a better and more even job of distributing the stopping say if you're doing a road course or doing a lot of mountain driving. Reduces fading under prolonged hard use. IMO this is really the justification for most brake upgrades.
2) For folks thinking about a Supra TT brake upgrade, please do NOT understimate the amount of space these big brakes need. I bought high disk 18" aftermarket wheels, and the TT brakes still did not clear without a small 1/8 spacer. Wheel design is very important in this - don't make any assumptions that they'll fit. You can search CL for modifications some folks have done to TT brakes (shaving the caliper, etc) to make them sit lower and fit behind more wheels.
I don't have a good pic of my brake upgrade with me, but here's a so-so pic of them from the gallery. My brakes still needs a better set of paint - I had some issues when I was painting them.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 10-09-02 at 06:45 PM.
10-09-02, 08:15 PM
#14
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ca
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, i agree with you completely which is why i said that most people will never test the limits of the stock system, let alone the upgrade.
In regards to wheels and fitment, i believe the problem that most people have is the actual choice of wheel. Even though wheel design is important, offset is what is key. Most people who buy wheels simply look through a magazine and just pick blindly without taking into consideration many factors.
The main point i would like to make is the fact that these cars are RWD. Most people put front wheel drive wheels on these cars that have too high a offset which offers no caliper clearance whatsoever. Staggered is optimal.
In regards to wheels and fitment, i believe the problem that most people have is the actual choice of wheel. Even though wheel design is important, offset is what is key. Most people who buy wheels simply look through a magazine and just pick blindly without taking into consideration many factors.
The main point i would like to make is the fact that these cars are RWD. Most people put front wheel drive wheels on these cars that have too high a offset which offers no caliper clearance whatsoever. Staggered is optimal.
10-10-02, 12:43 AM
#15
DaveGS4, I know where your coming from as far as expecting the car to stop sooner than it does. I have only had my GS for about 2k miles now, and I came out of a Supra TT. I cant tell you how many times I have found myself stomping on the pedal as I was ready to be in someones backseat. I would break as I was used to breaking, but the car would not respond as quickly as I expected. I knew the front breaks were fairly new when I bought the car, but it was so bad that I found myself pulling off the front wheels last weekend to see if they were gone already. After I checked them out, the pads are amost new still. I was thinking about going up to the Supra TT set up as well. I geuss the first thing to do is find out if they will fit my 20" HRE's. The problem is I bought them used and I have no idea whether they are high disk, or the offsets of them.
Whats the average cost of the Supra TT uprgrade?
Whats the average cost of the Supra TT uprgrade?
