RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys. Have any of you experienced problems with the camber in your IS?

My OEM tires (RE050s) were worn to the metal on the inner part of the tire after about 20K (the outer 2/3 of the tire still had plenty of tread). I thought that was ridiculous, but I got an alignment at NTB along with a new set of Michelin PS2s, and hoped that would fix the problem. No such luck. Here I am about another 20K miles later (at about 38.7K overall mileage), and I see a similar problem developing. The tread is fairly healthy on the outside, the but inside is wearing dangerously thin, and I probably need another pair of tires up front.

I did notice on the alignment spec/adjustment sheet that it didn't appear like NTB made any significant camber adjustments. The before/after camber didn't change, and it seemed too negative (-1.5 degrees vs a range of -1.4 to .2). Is it just not possible for them to make the camber adjustments I need to fix this problem? Should I take my car elsewhere?

One possibly worthwhile note I'm leaving out so far is that I've been running on an after market suspension kit (Tein CS) lowered about 1" in the front since about I had about 10K miles. I also have wheels that have a slightly higher offset (+48) up front than stock.

What do you guys suggest I do? Or is the tread wear I'm seeing normal for IS drivers (I have to doubt that.)

Thanks in advance for your help.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I run -1.5 degrees on all four corners of my Supra and never have wear issues.

Your toe is wrong and will continue to be wrong as long as you let monkeys align your wheels. You need to take the car to someone who knows how to set it up to run at the ride height you want without the wear issues. Your camber could be perfect and you'd still be killing your tires.

Anthony

iTrader: (4)

werd... its all about getting the toe close to spec.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

But doesn't bad toe settings cause tread wear problems evenly across the tire? Why would that effect only the inside of the tire?

... Or suppose it's a combination of the camber and the toe causing this, and that the camber wouldn't be an issue if not for the toe problem?

EDIT: I just looked at the adjustment spec sheet again, and I notice that the toe is .02", which seems to be within the specified range, but I guess that's for the stock ride height. I also noticed that my SAI was way off for both of the front wheels, and they didn't really touch that... I probably should have brought up all these questions while I was still at the shop.

Isn't there a certain type of machine that is supposed to be the gold standard for alignment work today?

Mv350

iTrader: (23)

when you have any neg camber, and then add toe, you're gunna kill the inside of your tires. my toe was set perfectly and i have -2.4* camber in the rear and have way better tread wear than stock. i also have -3.3* in the rear and dont really see any tire destruction.

B16da9

iTrader: (7)

Bad toe does not cause the tire to wear evenly it will cause it to wear just like your car is doing.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again for the help, guys.

I just took another look at the wear on my front tires, and it's kind of bizarre to me. It is indeed wearing out just on the inside of the tires, but it's just the very innermost side of the tire. I mean 90% of the tire has healthy-looking tread, but there's just a small sliver worn completely on the inside edge of the contact patch. Not only is it frustrating to waste so much of my tires' treadlife, but this kind of thing makes it very hard to spot the tire wear until it's already worn completely through the rubber on the tire. Guess I'll need to find a better shop to fix my alignment.

On a somewhat unrelated note, how can I tell whether my PS2s are mounted properly (they're asymmetric, but non-directional I think)? Google isn't helping me much, and I'm now doubting just about everything NTB did to my car, heh.



EDIT: So I just talked to what seems to be a pretty reputable mechanic in my area (Davenport Motor Co), and they told me something that I kind of suspected, but seems to contradict what I'm reading in this thread: They said I will not be able to make the camber/toe adjustments necessary to fix my tire wear issues without a camber kit. They suggested that I would be better off getting symmetric tires that I can remount left-to-right every 10K miles or so.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

NTB is going to adjust your car until they see green indications. It doesn't mean it's properly aligned, only that it meets factory specs. Factory specs on a modified car don't mean diddly, and Lexus aligns these cars from the factory with more toe out than they need for even tire wear.

I really don't care how "reputable" the guy is. He doesn't know how to do it right if he's telling you a camber adjustment is your only solution. You need more toe-in from where you are now. Too much toe out makes the inside edges wear. Too much toe in makes the outside edges wear. You need to find the right balance point for YOUR car at YOUR ride height and the unusual wear will stop.

I had similar problems with my Supra many years ago. People still call the base street setup the "Lance W alignment" and run it because it stops the inner edge wear problems on MkIV Supras, especially in the rear, but the same principles apply to the front.

B16da9

iTrader: (7)

You need to take the car to an aligment shop that know what they are doing. One way to know this is asking them if they can corner weight the car. If they have no idea what that term means then go somewhere else.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

So then both the toe and the camber ARE adjustable from the factory in our IS? The reason what he said made sense to me is that I thought I remembered reading on this very forum a long while back a bunch of posters saying that we can't adjust the camber on the front wheels of this car without an alignment kit. Alright, I guess I'll have to find someone else to do this for me...

B16da9

iTrader: (7)

Front camber is not adjustable from the factory for the 2IS. However toein/out will wear your tires out faster than negative camber will. This is the very reason why you need to take the car to a place that knows what they are doing not a place that will adjust the setting till where the computer shows the setting in the "green".

Also if you want to adjust your camber search the SPC camber kit for the 1IS. I did this mod to my car and it worked great.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

Ah, ok, got it.

And just so you and Lance know, I haven't been ignoring your comments about adjusting the toe, heh. I was just thinking that I needed a combination of toe and camber fixes since my camber still seems a little too negative.

EDIT: Also, when I'm looking at the results for the adjustments from a Hunter alignment machine, a negative toe angle is toe out, right? And positive is toe in?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Davenport is an independent Lexus mechanic shop. They deal with stock Lexus like the Lexus dealerships. I would hardly pay attention to what they have to say regarding modified cars. Monkey mechanics will always blame the wear on camber.

Im running -1.7 degrees all around my car and I have practically no irregular tire wear. Camber becomes an issue when you're approaching about -2.5 degrees. -1.5 is hardly anything.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Correct. If you're getting negative toe angle then the front of the wheels are pointing away from the centerline of the car.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

Well those guys (Davenport) install aftermarket performance suspension systems and camber kits on some of the cars they work, too. So I thought they'd know what they were talking about, but I guess not.