truenoboy

Long story short, I'm having horrible front inner tire wear. I posted last week about it already. Anyway, I've read a little bit about RCAs but don't know if this will resolve my issue or if I can even use them. From what I've read, RCA can only be used with cars using coilovers as the RCAs will lower the car. I'm having a hard time understanding this as I would think it's the other way around. RCA is just a wedged peice of metal block that goes under the ball joint, so if anything, I would would think it would raise the car hight.

Anyway, I'm in need of a solution to my problem and would like to know what I can get to fix it based on my setup. I have new set of 245/35/20 on the way and would like fix my problem so I don't destroy them.

Setup:
DF210 springs
KYB G2R shocks
235/30/20 up front

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

From your other post on the same subject I suggested you get an alignment. Did you ever do that and if so lets' see your final specs.

Your car is not that low and I don't see much camber either. At that ride height you should not be experiencing excessive camber wear.


To get that amount of wear I would suspect excessive toe out.

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

Here are the replies from your other thread.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...tire-wear.html

did you get an alignment?




mods, close one of the threads please.

truenoboy

Guys, I'm waiting to receive my 2 front tires via UPS 1st before getting an alignment this week, so no. However after getting an alignment, I'm sure I'm still going to have inner tire wear based on the replies to my post as well as PMs and other posts that I've read. Inner tire wear is apparently a known issue for any lowered GS from what I've gathered so far. I put the tires on only 8 or 9 months ago and have had the car aligned 2 or 3 times by the best alignment guy in town since putting those tires on. I don't remember exactly what the alignment specs were the last time it was aligned, however I know the guy said he got it the best he could each time he aligned it. Yes, I'm pretty sure the car is probably misaligned by now, but the tire wear I'm showing is apparently not due to recent misalignment. That said, I'm looking for a solution other then just an alignment that will mitigate inner tire wear as I'm confident that misalignment is not the only issue I'm having.

The main purpose of this post is to get more information on items such as RCAs, camber kits, etc. (more so RCAs at this point) that may probably help with preventative inner tire wear. I've searched and there just simply isn't enough information on RCAs, camber kits, or anything at that on this board for the GS that will help with premature tire wear. Most of the information is about how to put the kits on, trouble putting them on, etc. Nothing really about it proving the myth of it helping solve premature inner tire wear issue, if people with springs can get away with using them, why RCA lower the car, etc. That's more or less what I'm looking for here.

Coco-bun - Your RCA post is 1 of the post I came across earlier today, but unfortunately it didn't provide as much info as I was looking for. I'm curious if you could provide feedback on if there was a difference in ride feel, how much they adjusted your ride height (up or down), and if it's helping you get better life out of your tires.

Sash1mi

iTrader: (18)

your car isnt even that low... I got inner camber wear being slammed and I need something else more than RCA's to fix my inner wear issues.

Dara

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

If you really read through the threads regarding RCA and still don't know how/why it works, I can't explain it to you better. I've posted links and translations from Japanese sites in hope to shed some light. Beyond that, I don't know how to explain it to you.

I installed RCA solely to correct my suspension geometry. Gaining back camber was a side effect that worked in my favor. I don't have a full tap coilover so I wanted to gain back as much suspension travel back as possible and reduce bump steer which is why I got the RCA. The RCA did change the driving feel a bit, but only to the extent of the suspension travel I gained back, correct suspension geometry, reduction of bump steer, and going from -3.75 camber to -2.5 camber.

IF your alignment is not too bad, the only other factor I could think of is a worn bushing...but horribly worn. Also, is this one tire thats doing it? just fronts? all four? I would discuss with local members for a recommendation on alignment shops as well.

It seems like you are shooting blindly in hopes to throw some parts and fix the wear. If the wear is due to something like a worn #2 control arm bushing, RCA is not going to fix it.

Assess the issue first, find the root of the problem, then consider what parts you need.

GS300ToM

iTrader: (32)

your car is not even that low, i would say like 27-28" from fender to the floor?? anyways an alignment should fix it right away and POST YOUR FINALS SPECS.. im at 24.75/25" from my fender and my camber is sittin at -2.5 with toe in spec.. yours is pretty high compared to my.. so long story short, get them tires on and alignment done and i doubt you would need any camber kit or RCA .... anyone would tell you that from the looks of your ride height.. that just me tho

truenoboy

Alright, so I got the allignment this past saturday and here are the results.



My allignment guy said the back was pretty good, so he didn't really touch it, however the front needed adjustment but it's maxed out. The only thing he could adjust was the toe.

Coco-bun - Maybe you can explain to me how and why a camber kit lowers the car as I'm having a hard time understanding. My allignment guy is again the best allignement guy in town. He's been doing allignemtns for 25+ years and knows about camber kits. When I told him that people said the allignment kit lowers the car, he too did not understand why. He said that if anything, the car should raise if there's going to be adjustment in height (before re-allignemnt). That's the samething I figured logically. It only makes sense...if you add a piece of block to your suspension, the block should cause an increase in hieght, if anything, not a decrease. Again, I'm just going by logic here and what my allignment guy is telling me, so I'm hoping to get a better explaination.

SorrGwa

iTrader: (1)

haha, sigh, cant u just accept they work? there are a bunch of us on here that have them installed and yes, they did fix our camber issue!

i sit 25.5" fender to ground on the fronts and 26" fender to ground on the rears.

my front camber is in the -1.75 degree range, and my rear is at -1.25 degree range. the toes are within factory spec.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

It lowers the car because it pushed the shock mount down and the spindle up via the spacer. Since the shock length is the same, the spindle is effectively pushed upward (think artificial compression), thus lowering the ride position.

It looks like your issues were more related to toe, which is the cause of most inner tire wear. Camber affects tire wear only when you add toe scrub and very thinwall tires make it even worse.

The stock specs also do not really apply for lowered cars due to the increased toe in on compression (bump steer). I suggest a setting on the toe-out side in the rear for lowered suspensions. You should be more toe neutral on the rear with slight toe out and bump steer will pull it inward harder on compression.

The last thing I will say is that I am working on a non lowering camber correction for the rear. First unit shipped last week for testing. a front RCA with ball joint replacement is also in the works.

IMO, adding suspension travel should not be a justification for an RCA that impacts ride height. Whether or not the shock bottoms out does not change the fact that the upper control arm is still going into compression. And skewing the parallelagram between the upper and lower wishbones (even though the lower is somewhat virtual because it is two links) has other implications when it comes to suspension cycle. Not to mention the sway preload will also be off.

If you have less travel...the spring should be stiffer quite simply. It should match the range of travel it has to work in. A progressive spring rate is even better as it will tighten up near bump end conditions. It seems like most of the springs are too soft out there and more "stiffness" is added with damping. This is just a horrible idea as it overdamps the system and all of a sudden the smallest bumps can be felt...no high frequency stability on the road.

Follow my thread in this forum to get the details on the product I make. Its the best I could come up with for this problem, add control, and not provide an unwanted drop.

Fig

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

Now that the specs are FINALLY posted, I see it's what I suspected earlier in post #2, which is what I also posted 2 weeks ago on your other thread on the same topic which was :

"THE FIRST thing you should do is just get an alignment. Unless you are slammed down to zero gap or less, the other two above options are helpful but not critical.

Show us a before & after alignment reading. If you alignment is good or rather if your alignment was really bad, then no need to do anything else.

I highly suspect that you are running a Toe OUT condition.

Excessive toe out will wear out your tires as much or more than excessive camber.

Camber is also a key contributor, but toe out will accelerate the inner tire wear waaaaaaay faster. A worse case can kill the tires in well under 2-3k miles."




If you should experience excessive tire wear in the future, check your alignment AGAIN and post the spec BEFORE asking people to "guess" all the possible causes for inner tire wear.

It's senseless to try to shot gun this problem without first confirming if its just a simple case of your alignment being out of whack.



As for the RCA blocks, Fig has already explained it quite well. There are blocks that can lower a car and there are blocks that can raise a car. It just depends on it's intended application and how it's designed and mounted.

truenoboy

Fig: Thanks, I really appreciate the explaination. It was a big help in me understanding better why it lowers the GS. I also have an AE86 corolla, and I know if I put a camber kit on that, it's not going to make my car lower, so I couldn't quite understand why it would on a GS. Now I do.

RMMGS4: At no point was I in in disagreement that my allignment was off. In fact, I even said that I'm almost certain my allignemnt is off as well, however I knew that with a reallignment that I would have the same issue. Besides the toe, everything else is maxed out. I knew this prior to getting another allignement Saturday as my allignment guy told me the samething the last time he alligned it. In fact prior to going to him initially, I had 2 other allignment shops try to work on the car and too said that they can't get the adjust as far as they would like because things are maxed out. Now as for the toe, it is a contributing factor to my innter tire wear, but it's not just that causing it. My allignment guy even said the same thing and even has many other customers with lowered GS that have the same exact issue I'm having. In fact, he was curious and wanted me to find out more about the camber kit for the GS so he could tell the rest of his customers. According to my allignment guy, even with the toe adjusted, I'm still going to get the premature inner tire wear just like the rest of his GS customers, however I will get a little bit more life with the toe being fixed.

That said, my main point of interest of finding out info about what parts I could use to help and give more adjustment to the allignment. I'm on spring, not coilovers, so when I read that camber/RCA kits lower the car, I was concerned and wanted to figure out why as I'm concerned that with a kit, my tires will scrub. Fig has now better help me understand as I could not find such information on why kits lower the GS specifically on the board. My allignment didn't know why either, and he's being doing this for 25+ years, so I don't feel so bad.

SorrGwa

iTrader: (1)

thats why i call the front's camber spacers. unlike whats available for the AE's and even the hondas, which either use a smaller offset strut bolt, or an upper offset control arm bolt.

the rears, i run the SPC camber kit which is more of the traditional style of camber adjustments which doesnt lower the car anymore. however if u get the exact or sage ones, those will lower the car more as the lower control arm actually sits lower as well.

GS300ToM

iTrader: (32)

imo i think your specs are near perfect for a lowered car