NGG

15951
Sorry if the intent of my post was misinterpreted. It was not to suggest reducing braking performance, but to keep it at the current level, with increased brake life expectancy and reduction of excessive dust.

Here is how it can be done. The current rotors and pads require harder pads to create the high amount of friction for "performance" stopping power. The answer is larger rotors and pads with more swept area, thus more friction, thus more stopping power. Current equipment which has a smaller swept area creates more wear and dust because of the increased force of harder pads on a smaller area. Yes the larger equipment will produce unwanted heat..this can be mitigated with drilled/grooved rotors...initially more expensive but less than repetitive premature replacement costs.

The point is not to reduce braking performance, but to design the equipment in such a way as to enhance brake life and not build in more frequent service costs to the benefit of Lexus and dealers. In summary, superior braking performance can coexist with longer brake life. All it takes to make it happen is the will of Lexus.
NGG

Seattle350

Hey Vik - I'm going to contact the Lexus 1800xxxxx tomorrow - I had a string of performance cars and I have never experienced pads and rotors at 14.6k miles.
The TPM issue has been resolved....

Seattle350

NGG - you could not have explained this better....

15951

Thanks for the clarification, but our front rotors are already pretty darn big - go take a look at those suckers, and compare them to most other cars on the road. Larger rotors would require even bigger calipers, and the brake system would get even more expensive. Then you'd need rims that can clear those monsters.

Using drilled or slotted rotors means you can't machine them, so you're replacing every time. You're also looking at pads getting chewed up quicker by the holes/slots, which will create brake dust.

I'm sure you can tell by now that I think cross drilled and similar rotors are mostly for looks...modern pads don't outgas as much past break-in, so the benefits of cross-drilled rotors are negligible unless you're really kicking the crap out of your brakes on a track. Cross drilled rotors can even increase stopping distance and cause premature pad wear...you're essentially decreasing the surface area of the rotor by taking material out of it, and creating uneven surfaces for pad material to cut and collect.

I think the solution is to buy a different type of pad that doesn't dust as much, and try it out. Our rotor size definitely isn't the culprit, though.

gshb

well the idea for drilled/slotted brake rotors is to increase heat flux out of the rotor during heavy use. this reduces brake fade. actually, the brakes on the 350 are ventilated, a nice gesture by Lexus since indeed this car is geared toward performance.

al503

The limiting factor in braking performance on the vast majority of cars on the road today are the tires, not the brake components. The major benefit to larger rotors are heat capacity and looks. The IS will stop just as quickly with 12" or even 11" rotors and even smaller. The smaller brake components will be more susceptible to brake fade though.

At 13.2", there aren't many production cars with bigger brakes on the road. The brakes on the 350 are probably putting less fewer psi of pressure than 90-95% of all cars.

The larger the components, the larger the heat capacity. Therefore, the components will stay cooler and extend the life of the components as heat generally hurts longevity.

NovaIS350

Are they telling you you have to replace your rotors? or just the brake pads...if youre complaing about brake pads at 15,000 miles. stop. If they're saying the rotors need to be replaced at 15,000 miles. then I can understand your griping. It sounds like they're trying to make a quick buck off of you. Unless your rotors are warped or you can see the other side of the rotors...i think you just need new pads. Get a second opinion.

al503

Agree. I would ask them for the minimum serviceable specs of both the pads and rotors and have them mic them in front of you.

Seattle350

Yup - they say the rotors need replacing as well - that is my main gripe - how the heck do the rotors get warped at 14.6k? I did get hold of Lexus cust. care - same load of cr@p about it being a softer compound for performance braking, but they say they will research it further - my argunent is same as DGG - why should longer lasting pads and performance braking be mutually exclusive? btw - the pads and rotors are $700 fitted - so, I average 15k miles a year, do I budget on new pads and rotors annually?

hofman_dzn

I took my 350 in a couple of weeks ago for service at 13k miles. The front pads had 10% left so they went ahead and changed them. They also refinished the rotors. After I picked it up, the car shuddered everytime I braked (rotors were refinished with too much end float) so I took it back. They replaced the rotors free of charge. I found out later that the IS350's brakes can't be refinished, they have to be replaced. As long as the thickness on your rotors is to spec, there's no reason for them to replace them when you replace the pads. Unless of course the rotors are scored and have deep scratches.

ahohnstein

Looks like we're going to need a DIY thread on replacing brake pads and rotors. Can't imagine that would be too hard would it? What portion of that $700 is labor?

MrLexIS350

I could understand spending $700 for a brake job on a higher end car, but wow, that's a lot of money to be spending every 15k miles just on brakes on a $40,000 car.

I just clocked a little over 20k in less than a year of driving (80% of those are freeway miles), and you got me a little worried. I have yet to hear any brake noise, but to be sure I'm going to have to take it in soon.

CWS

Heck, I'm thinking of selling mine. With $700 brakes, and all those other expensive parts on it, it should be worth about 75k, right?

Evitzee

Looks like tires and brakes are going to be one of the most expensive parts of operating this vehicle. Let's see, pads/rotors = $700, 4 tires = say $1,000. If these last only 15,000 mi that means 11 cents per mile.

If Gasoline averages $3/gal like it did in the summer, and at an average mileage of 25 mpg, fuel cost is 12 cents per mile.

So fuel, tires and brakes cost 23 cents per mile. That's not cheap by any means.

MrLexIS350

According to the maintenance schedule, how often does it say the brake pads/rotors need to be changed?

I know it's off the topic, but a friend of mine had the same problem with her Mercedes ML350. It was a brand new car with a little more than 5k miles at the time, and she had the same problems with her brake system. She took the car in and they had to replace all 4 rotors along with new brake pads. The worst thing about her experience was that she had to pay for everything. MB refused to cover it under warranty. She had to pay something like $1200 for it.