Daizen GS front control arm bushings - review thread (final)
08-24-05, 11:42 PM
#1
Daizen GS front control arm bushings - review thread (final)
this is not meant to be a teaser post, but i don't want to say much until i have driven the car more to make sure everything is good. everyone has been waiting the longest possible time for daizen bushings for the front suspensions right? the wait is finally be over! I just got their first batch production bushings.
history
=====
my car has 70k miles already, and at about 55k to 60k miles, i brought my car in for alignment coz' i felt that the steering wheel starts to get lose and kinda go left and right on freeway. the alignment shop is a very good one, probably the best around. they looked it up and basically told me to get new bushings before doing alignment. they showed me my caster arm bushings and they are both cracked already, and they said that's what causing the problem.
and especially since my car is lowered quite a bit, the stress on those bushings are even more than usual
after more driving, at 70k miles, the steering is just horrible. it's really going left and right, very loose, i got vibration at normal to freeway speed, and at times, for some resaon when i brake i get shaking on my steering wheels. i actually thought i got warpped rotors.
and even worse, coz' of the unpredicatable steering, turning actually became much harder than before, coz' sometimes it's understeering and sometimes its oversteering. i thought it must be problems with the rear of my car being too loose or something.
daizen has hinted about a new bushing kits for the gs, with poly urethene compound which is a lot more durable than the stock rubber. that's an excellent idea since bushings are cheaper than getting the whole arm (toyota don't sell just the bushings), and it lasts longer.
fact
===
of a lot of people i talk to, in fact a lot of us have cracked and torn bushings after miles and miles of driving. typically i think cars with over 50k to 60k miles start to experience these problems:
- loose steering
- slight vibration and various speed
- less responsive steering
- easily knocked out alignment
unfotunately it took daizen too long to come out with the bushings, and a lot of us went with new control arms already, mainly just to replace the bushings within.
i was actually at the blink of getting new arms already as well since my car just handles very bad, and the whole steering is just frustrating. so i called up tm engineering about the issues and see what should be done.
and it just so happened that they got the first production units coming in, and i was given the options to try these instead of getting new arms. without a second thought i chose the bushings of course coz' they are cheaper and last longer. so i brought my car in for installation, and now i am driving and testing the units myself.
feedback
=======
it's been about 4 days now with over 500 miles driving, and seriously i can't be happier with what just these two new bushings in the caster arm has done to the car. it's amazing
1) the steering is tightened up a lot already. even at local speed you could totally feel it. and at freeway speed the steering just stay very tight and precise, and not loose where you can jiggle it left and right
2) the steering response is greatly improved now. in the past, i really hard to "yell" turn for the car to turn, but now, as soon as i start turning the car responds to me already. this makes cornering very precise now. i always thought it's the problem with the rear end, but now i know it's actually the steering
3) vibration is down to non. at freeway speed i don't have any vibration like i had anymore. it's very smooth, which is good since i don't have to hold down to the steering wheel as tight anymore
4) warpped rotors? no! dont' ask me why, but after having the new bushings, now with i brake i don't have the shaking anymore.... i am thinking maybe in the past, since the caster arms bushings are so torn already, there are too many plays and the arm is too loose to hold the suspension in place. so when i brake, due to the surface road or so, i get the vibration at times.
the ride did NOT get any rougher than before. the bushings just stay in place, and if anything, only makes the car ride better imho.
the alignment is off right now, the car is pulling to the right a bit. but this is expected with the new bushings and suspensions touched.
i ONLY put on the caster bushings as far as i know, not the control arm ones yet as well as some others. the ball joint and tie rods they are still the original ones. we want to see what's casuing the problems and what people need. maybe we will put on the control arm bushings next and see the effect, etc...
bottom line is, of course, if you change everything to new, it's going to be nice and tight. but we want to see what the major cause is, and what's "just enough" to bring everything back to normal. at least for now, changing the caster arm bushings alone has great feedback on my side already.
i will be driving more these days and try to get to different roads, etc... and see how everything feels like. so hopefully more to come! but as of now, i think these bushings are the answer! i am kinda happy that i waited out so long, it actually saves me some money with the bushings and now everything is back so tight.
and for those who are still suffering the torn bushings like what i had before? i know i said it before, but i will say it again --- they are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
history
=====
my car has 70k miles already, and at about 55k to 60k miles, i brought my car in for alignment coz' i felt that the steering wheel starts to get lose and kinda go left and right on freeway. the alignment shop is a very good one, probably the best around. they looked it up and basically told me to get new bushings before doing alignment. they showed me my caster arm bushings and they are both cracked already, and they said that's what causing the problem.
and especially since my car is lowered quite a bit, the stress on those bushings are even more than usual
after more driving, at 70k miles, the steering is just horrible. it's really going left and right, very loose, i got vibration at normal to freeway speed, and at times, for some resaon when i brake i get shaking on my steering wheels. i actually thought i got warpped rotors.
and even worse, coz' of the unpredicatable steering, turning actually became much harder than before, coz' sometimes it's understeering and sometimes its oversteering. i thought it must be problems with the rear of my car being too loose or something.
daizen has hinted about a new bushing kits for the gs, with poly urethene compound which is a lot more durable than the stock rubber. that's an excellent idea since bushings are cheaper than getting the whole arm (toyota don't sell just the bushings), and it lasts longer.
fact
===
of a lot of people i talk to, in fact a lot of us have cracked and torn bushings after miles and miles of driving. typically i think cars with over 50k to 60k miles start to experience these problems:
- loose steering
- slight vibration and various speed
- less responsive steering
- easily knocked out alignment
unfotunately it took daizen too long to come out with the bushings, and a lot of us went with new control arms already, mainly just to replace the bushings within.
i was actually at the blink of getting new arms already as well since my car just handles very bad, and the whole steering is just frustrating. so i called up tm engineering about the issues and see what should be done.
and it just so happened that they got the first production units coming in, and i was given the options to try these instead of getting new arms. without a second thought i chose the bushings of course coz' they are cheaper and last longer. so i brought my car in for installation, and now i am driving and testing the units myself.
feedback
=======
it's been about 4 days now with over 500 miles driving, and seriously i can't be happier with what just these two new bushings in the caster arm has done to the car. it's amazing
1) the steering is tightened up a lot already. even at local speed you could totally feel it. and at freeway speed the steering just stay very tight and precise, and not loose where you can jiggle it left and right
2) the steering response is greatly improved now. in the past, i really hard to "yell" turn for the car to turn, but now, as soon as i start turning the car responds to me already. this makes cornering very precise now. i always thought it's the problem with the rear end, but now i know it's actually the steering
3) vibration is down to non. at freeway speed i don't have any vibration like i had anymore. it's very smooth, which is good since i don't have to hold down to the steering wheel as tight anymore
4) warpped rotors? no! dont' ask me why, but after having the new bushings, now with i brake i don't have the shaking anymore.... i am thinking maybe in the past, since the caster arms bushings are so torn already, there are too many plays and the arm is too loose to hold the suspension in place. so when i brake, due to the surface road or so, i get the vibration at times.
the ride did NOT get any rougher than before. the bushings just stay in place, and if anything, only makes the car ride better imho.
the alignment is off right now, the car is pulling to the right a bit. but this is expected with the new bushings and suspensions touched.
i ONLY put on the caster bushings as far as i know, not the control arm ones yet as well as some others. the ball joint and tie rods they are still the original ones. we want to see what's casuing the problems and what people need. maybe we will put on the control arm bushings next and see the effect, etc...
bottom line is, of course, if you change everything to new, it's going to be nice and tight. but we want to see what the major cause is, and what's "just enough" to bring everything back to normal. at least for now, changing the caster arm bushings alone has great feedback on my side already.
i will be driving more these days and try to get to different roads, etc... and see how everything feels like. so hopefully more to come! but as of now, i think these bushings are the answer! i am kinda happy that i waited out so long, it actually saves me some money with the bushings and now everything is back so tight.
and for those who are still suffering the torn bushings like what i had before? i know i said it before, but i will say it again --- they are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by rominl; 08-25-05 at 12:16 PM.
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bullhog (01-01-17)
08-25-05, 12:23 AM
#2
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damn it!!! damn it!!!
I couldnt wait and I allready changed my tie rods, control arms, ball joints.
I have NOT changed my castor arms so hopefully this will be great news to me.
Rom: Please keep us posted on the release of the castor bushings or other bushings.
This is EXCELLENT news to all GS owners!!!!
I couldnt wait and I allready changed my tie rods, control arms, ball joints.
I have NOT changed my castor arms so hopefully this will be great news to me.
Rom: Please keep us posted on the release of the castor bushings or other bushings.
This is EXCELLENT news to all GS owners!!!!
08-25-05, 03:27 AM
#5
Thanks rominl for that great write up 
.... I'm wondering if the bushing can be replaced with hand tools in the garage 
Instead of buying the whole caster arm? and maybe for the set it would be like 100.00 bucks which is a heck of alot cheaper than buying the whole arm... My car has almost 56k on it.. So within the next 5-10k i need to do this.. It seems like the install would be pretty straight forward.... Whats your opinion Rom? Thanks
Tony
.... I'm wondering if the bushing can be replaced with hand tools in the garage Instead of buying the whole caster arm? and maybe for the set it would be like 100.00 bucks which is a heck of alot cheaper than buying the whole arm... My car has almost 56k on it.. So within the next 5-10k i need to do this.. It seems like the install would be pretty straight forward.... Whats your opinion Rom? Thanks Tony
08-25-05, 04:25 AM
#6
henry this is great news
question though ,, are we sure its the castor arm bushings for i never heard of daizen making the castor arm bushings , i thought it was always the lower control arm bushings and upper a arm bushings.
if its castor arms this would be great for their is alot of movement within that bushing but let me be fair to those considering this .. i had ordered from steve a set of trd race bushings for the castor arm. i had a friend of mine from the lexus dealer (their top tech) attempt to remove the bushing only , i will say this , i would have done it myself but my homw compressor just did not have enough power. lexus never intended for these to be removed so hence the removal process was a pita.. pressing it out did not work for there was no real edge or lip on the metal sleeve around the rubber so nothing could have been used to press it out so we proceeded to use a airtool to sortof jack hammer it to death . it eventually came out . my trd bushings were the wrong size though , they were for the v300 aristo arms which are larger and beefier
i am writing this so we could get any insight as to a easier way to remove a bushing that was not made to be removed
i will say this what ever Daizen puts out is well thought out and designed. everything had purpose and function written all over it so buy with complete confidence from tm for todd knows his stuff better then toyota themselves
also henry again please confirm it was castor arm bushing and if so please have daizen update web site to reflect correct info
question though ,, are we sure its the castor arm bushings for i never heard of daizen making the castor arm bushings , i thought it was always the lower control arm bushings and upper a arm bushings.
if its castor arms this would be great for their is alot of movement within that bushing but let me be fair to those considering this .. i had ordered from steve a set of trd race bushings for the castor arm. i had a friend of mine from the lexus dealer (their top tech) attempt to remove the bushing only , i will say this , i would have done it myself but my homw compressor just did not have enough power. lexus never intended for these to be removed so hence the removal process was a pita.. pressing it out did not work for there was no real edge or lip on the metal sleeve around the rubber so nothing could have been used to press it out so we proceeded to use a airtool to sortof jack hammer it to death . it eventually came out . my trd bushings were the wrong size though , they were for the v300 aristo arms which are larger and beefier
i am writing this so we could get any insight as to a easier way to remove a bushing that was not made to be removed
i will say this what ever Daizen puts out is well thought out and designed. everything had purpose and function written all over it so buy with complete confidence from tm for todd knows his stuff better then toyota themselves
also henry again please confirm it was castor arm bushing and if so please have daizen update web site to reflect correct info
Last edited by lexforlife; 08-25-05 at 04:48 AM.
08-25-05, 05:34 AM
#7
Ed, can you tell me where you ordered the caster arms again. I think you told me but i forgot. Also, can use hand tools to remove the stock caster arms? Please let me know... IF this fixes the above mentioned stuff that you mentioned and romil mentioned than this is what I'm doing first.... Thanks ed
Tony
Tony
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08-25-05, 06:30 AM
#8
nice write up henry. any word on the camber kit from daizen? i know, one thing at a time...
when i was at tm earlier this year, todd told me daizen was working on the caster arm bushings and showed me some prototypes. todd did mention that they were super hard to put in. he also said the bushing were the cheap part, the labor cost will kill (what ed was talking about).
bottom line, when daizen comes out with these new bushings, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for the swop out.
ed, how much were oem caster arms?
when i was at tm earlier this year, todd told me daizen was working on the caster arm bushings and showed me some prototypes. todd did mention that they were super hard to put in. he also said the bushing were the cheap part, the labor cost will kill (what ed was talking about).
bottom line, when daizen comes out with these new bushings, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for the swop out.
ed, how much were oem caster arms?
08-25-05, 08:51 AM
#9
Originally Posted by tmf2004
Thanks rominl for that great write up .... I'm wondering if the bushing can be replaced with hand tools in the garage Instead of buying the whole caster arm? and maybe for the set it would be like 100.00 bucks which is a heck of alot cheaper than buying the whole arm... My car has almost 56k on it.. So within the next 5-10k i need to do this.. It seems like the install would be pretty straight forward.... Whats your opinion Rom? Thanks
Tony
.... I'm wondering if the bushing can be replaced with hand tools in the garage Instead of buying the whole caster arm? and maybe for the set it would be like 100.00 bucks which is a heck of alot cheaper than buying the whole arm... My car has almost 56k on it.. So within the next 5-10k i need to do this.. It seems like the install would be pretty straight forward.... Whats your opinion Rom? Thanks Tony
and yes, price wise it's definitely a lot cheaper than getting all the arms and such, coz' the metal part won't really wear out anyway. but keep in mind, installation might be a tad more than just replacing the arms of course. but i look at the overall picture and teh fact that they are being more durable and will last a lot longer? that's enough for me to make the call
08-25-05, 08:55 AM
#10
Originally Posted by lexforlife
henry this is great news
question though ,, are we sure its the castor arm bushings for i never heard of daizen making the castor arm bushings , i thought it was always the lower control arm bushings and upper a arm bushings.
if its castor arms this would be great for their is alot of movement within that bushing but let me be fair to those considering this .. i had ordered from steve a set of trd race bushings for the castor arm. i had a friend of mine from the lexus dealer (their top tech) attempt to remove the bushing only , i will say this , i would have done it myself but my homw compressor just did not have enough power. lexus never intended for these to be removed so hence the removal process was a pita.. pressing it out did not work for there was no real edge or lip on the metal sleeve around the rubber so nothing could have been used to press it out so we proceeded to use a airtool to sortof jack hammer it to death . it eventually came out . my trd bushings were the wrong size though , they were for the v300 aristo arms which are larger and beefier
i am writing this so we could get any insight as to a easier way to remove a bushing that was not made to be removed
i will say this what ever Daizen puts out is well thought out and designed. everything had purpose and function written all over it so buy with complete confidence from tm for todd knows his stuff better then toyota themselves
also henry again please confirm it was castor arm bushing and if so please have daizen update web site to reflect correct info
question though ,, are we sure its the castor arm bushings for i never heard of daizen making the castor arm bushings , i thought it was always the lower control arm bushings and upper a arm bushings.
if its castor arms this would be great for their is alot of movement within that bushing but let me be fair to those considering this .. i had ordered from steve a set of trd race bushings for the castor arm. i had a friend of mine from the lexus dealer (their top tech) attempt to remove the bushing only , i will say this , i would have done it myself but my homw compressor just did not have enough power. lexus never intended for these to be removed so hence the removal process was a pita.. pressing it out did not work for there was no real edge or lip on the metal sleeve around the rubber so nothing could have been used to press it out so we proceeded to use a airtool to sortof jack hammer it to death . it eventually came out . my trd bushings were the wrong size though , they were for the v300 aristo arms which are larger and beefier
i am writing this so we could get any insight as to a easier way to remove a bushing that was not made to be removed
i will say this what ever Daizen puts out is well thought out and designed. everything had purpose and function written all over it so buy with complete confidence from tm for todd knows his stuff better then toyota themselves
also henry again please confirm it was castor arm bushing and if so please have daizen update web site to reflect correct info
in fact, i admit that with all the talk on the ball joints, arms, this and that, i was all confused about what's what. and since i have never known it for sure, i was at tm engineering and i asked todd if he could show me all the arms, their positions, how they affect the suspension, what's their movement, etc....
he was nice enough to dig around his shop and brought together pretty much a full gs suspension setup and showed me the control arm, the caster arm, the ball joint, tie rod, etc.... and he proceeded to explain to me which bushings should take the most beating and what he's going to change.
now unless i mix something up again (hope not!), the bushing he changed is the caster arm bushing. if you look at the car from the driver side front wheel, it's the bushing of the arm that goes to the area "kinda" under the steering wheel area. it's a bar that goes in an angle, and you can see the bushing from outside.
and you are right on the install, todd told me the bushing he changed was very hard, but nonetheless he did it. too bad i couldn't stay here to see what he did.
08-25-05, 08:57 AM
#12
Originally Posted by corkycal
nice write up henry. any word on the camber kit from daizen? i know, one thing at a time...
when i was at tm earlier this year, todd told me daizen was working on the caster arm bushings and showed me some prototypes. todd did mention that they were super hard to put in. he also said the bushing were the cheap part, the labor cost will kill (what ed was talking about).
bottom line, when daizen comes out with these new bushings, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for the swop out.
ed, how much were oem caster arms?
when i was at tm earlier this year, todd told me daizen was working on the caster arm bushings and showed me some prototypes. todd did mention that they were super hard to put in. he also said the bushing were the cheap part, the labor cost will kill (what ed was talking about).
bottom line, when daizen comes out with these new bushings, you'll need someone who knows what they're doing for the swop out.
ed, how much were oem caster arms?
plus, my tires somehow aren't really wearing all these time, so i kinda forgot about the camber 
and you are right on with the installer. i don't think this is something any speed shop out there installing coilovers can do. you need a good mechanic who knows about our cars and these tricks to get it done right
08-25-05, 09:00 AM
#13
also, everyone, i was talking to todd this morning and i gave me more feedback about the setup, and i found out more information that i missed.
the bushings on my car is indeed the production units already, it's the done deal and the units to come are the exact same ones and my car is actually the 4th or 5th unit to have the bushings on for testing already. there have been test cars in both east and west coast for testing, and two of the cars already have over 40k miles for reliability and long-term testing.
the whole r&d, and then the prototype, testing, etc.... were carried out more than one year ago. but when it comes to suspensions, they want to make sure it's done right, since it's highly safety related. now come to think about it, with over 40k miles of testing, that's a lot of driving!
i will keep you guys posted if i know something new
the bushings on my car is indeed the production units already, it's the done deal and the units to come are the exact same ones
and my car is actually the 4th or 5th unit to have the bushings on for testing already. there have been test cars in both east and west coast for testing, and two of the cars already have over 40k miles for reliability and long-term testing.the whole r&d, and then the prototype, testing, etc.... were carried out more than one year ago. but when it comes to suspensions, they want to make sure it's done right, since it's highly safety related. now come to think about it, with over 40k miles of testing, that's a lot of driving!
i will keep you guys posted if i know something new
08-25-05, 09:31 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by rominl
also, everyone, i was talking to todd this morning and i gave me more feedback about the setup, and i found out more information that i missed.
the bushings on my car is indeed the production units already, it's the done deal and the units to come are the exact same ones and my car is actually the 4th or 5th unit to have the bushings on for testing already. there have been test cars in both east and west coast for testing, and two of the cars already have over 40k miles for reliability and long-term testing.
the whole r&d, and then the prototype, testing, etc.... were carried out more than one year ago. but when it comes to suspensions, they want to make sure it's done right, since it's highly safety related. now come to think about it, with over 40k miles of testing, that's a lot of driving!
i will keep you guys posted if i know something new
the bushings on my car is indeed the production units already, it's the done deal and the units to come are the exact same ones
and my car is actually the 4th or 5th unit to have the bushings on for testing already. there have been test cars in both east and west coast for testing, and two of the cars already have over 40k miles for reliability and long-term testing.the whole r&d, and then the prototype, testing, etc.... were carried out more than one year ago. but when it comes to suspensions, they want to make sure it's done right, since it's highly safety related. now come to think about it, with over 40k miles of testing, that's a lot of driving!
i will keep you guys posted if i know something new
i'll be more than happy to field test them in NYC. Rominl could tell you about the nyc roads he witness this past summer.
If you could make it here, you'll make it anywhere.
08-25-05, 11:15 AM
#15
Henry this is great news, I have been using polyurethane bushings for years to replace musclecar suspensions, you guys have no idea how firm your front end will feel once are installed, much better than any new oem rubber bushing, poly bushings don't deflect under load like rubber does and will last much longer as they are not affected by heat, cold, fluids etc. If you are on the fence about replacing your front end parts this will be well worth the wait, tell those guys to hurry.