hawk

Howdy...I'll go ahead and thank anyone who reads all of this, and a super thank you to those who reply...

Hunker down guys, this is a long one…

So what I’ve done now is analyze my driving style, my personal preference for mods, and the road conditions on which I most expect to find myself scooting along. I ask that anyone with experience with these products give me a little feedback on my planning. Thank y’all mucho.

I’ve had the car (2000 GS4, white, non nav, regular stereo) for nine months now, and I’d now like to start considering the mods I’ll do (CL modding bug=1; me=0). On that note, a big THANK YOU to everyone around for all the great info I’ve found to date. The suspension is most important for me to start with. And I don’t see myself getting a body kit or new wheels any time soon or possibly at all for that matter. Performance tires, though, are a definite possibility.

Where I’m coming from/My Goals:
1. Maintain smooth ride quality while IMPROVING handling.
2. Make the car a sleeper. (best example of a sleeper = a MBZ E55 w/o AMG wheels/skirts/lips/badges and with an “E350 Turbo Diesel” badge). It’s just a personal preference for me to have a car with no obvious mods. Heck, I’m thinking about taking off the 400 badge and putting on the 300 badge. The only external mod I might consider for now are the 01+ rear lamps.
3. I’m choosing coilovers over a shocks/springs setup because I really need to have adjustability from soft/cushy to a stiff ride setting. My decision reflects my driving style as well as the unpredictability of quality of the roads in Texas and Ohio on which I drive.



MODS TO DO:
Steering ECU
- L-tuned (obviously). For effectiveness, I know this is a debatable mod. But some do report noticeable differences, and I think I’ll go for it especially considering the cost (minimal compared to coilovers).

Sway bars:
- Daizen Sways with Daizen Polyurethane bushings
- I chose Daizen over TRD. From what I can tell, TRD is probably minimally to moderate higher quality for “better handling,” but Daizen does a far better job of maintaining good ride quality.

Strut Tower Bracket:
- TRD vs. Rod Millen vs. Tom’s??? (help, I can’t decide. Remember, my main goal is to preserve ride quality as much as possible while increasing handling performance. And while I’ve seen some info, I’ve never really been able to judge that info in combination with my other choices here)

Rear Upper Suspension Tower Brace:
- I won’t do this mod yet because I want to take it easy at first with modding. Plus, when I go for the rear LCB (which I will be doing), I believe that will likely be a TRD product, which to my knowledge will be stiff enough that I may not want anything to add on to that (at least for the time being as soon as I get it). Additionally, I’d like to preserve my trunk space as much as possible, seeing as how I move a lot, split every year between Texas and Ohio.

Lower Chassis Brace:
- Front = I’m going to wait b/c there already is a front LCB down there. An aftermarket would be preferable, but I will already be spending enough for now, so I’ll hold on this.
- Rear = TRD is the only available option to the best of my knowledge. Anyone know of another company and how they’d compare?

COILOVERS:
I’m not going to be racing a lot at all (ok, maybe just a little); and this will definitely not be a car that finds itself on the track every weekend. I enjoy doing the twisties, but I also enjoy a super-comfy highway ride but with reallllly good handling for changing lanes and high speed curves. The problem is that when I do want to push the car, I really want something with better handling than the stock set up. Tein is my only option because EDFC is a must for me. I would definitely need to have the adjustability (personal preference and recurrent back problems), and I drive on roads of all sorts of conditions and quality (on occasion even a few unpaved farm roads at 5 mph). Here are some observations based on what I’ve read.
- Tein makes aluminum stuff...better for snowy weather.
- Tein Flex can be softer than L-tuned springs/shocks and also, when set, stiffer than Bilsteins
- Tein Flex can be set soft, but you’ll still feel road imperfections as a result of the Tein strut setup
- Flex—you can shorten the actual strut to lower it... not lessen the preload of the spring. This isn’t important to me because I’m quite sure I won’t be lowering the car ever. I had once a lowered SL500; I hated dealing with a lowered car in Houston.
- Tein CS—softer, smoother, quieter than other Tein products. Has EDFC compatability.
- Tentative FINAL DECISION = Tein CS—Nearly all of my driving is highway cruising with occasional fun, canyon driving, twistie time. Are there other things that I’m not taking into consideration that I should and that might sway me towards Flex instead? Basically, I guess I’m asking if Flex can be set to as smooth as CS, and how big is the difference, and will CS be adequate for someone who will likely go to the track 4-5 times in my life, if ever for that matter?

Questions to ask:
- Cost per each install at dealership?
o Coilovers
o Shocks and Springs
o Daizen front and rear sway bars
o Strut tower bracket


What to install first:
- Well, I’ve decided that I’m going to start small and then see how satisfied I am, then I’ll move onto Stage 2 if need be.
o Stage 1:
Steering ECU
Daizen Sway bars
Strut Tower Bracket
Rear LCB
o Stage 2:
Tein CS coilovers.

So what do y’all think? I’m really curious to know y’all’s opinions about my tentative decision regarding CS over Flex coilovers. That’s my biggest ‘uneasy area’.

And regarding coilovers, what’s their longevity? How does their longevity compare to stock shocks and springs? A big think to me is reliability and longevity.


Thank y'all so much.





(PS My other future mods will be a LSD, then a TC, and somewhere along the way 01+ rear lamps and the next gen aftermarket navi systems once they come out this summer--which they should. Other possibilities include front LCB, front and rear LSB’s, rear upper tower bar in the trunk, Daizen polyurethane control arm bushings and Camber Kit (even w/ factory 17’s, I suspect some stock camber problems inherent on all 98+ GS). Additionally, I'll be taking a peek at some new brakes. I’m also thinking about modifying the factory alarm system to include a louder siren instead of using stock horn for audible notification, and I’d also like to attach some sort of “incline sensor” that would trigger the alarm should the car change its incline while the engine is not running (anti-tow truck theft). I’m thinking that it certainly must have been possible for the Lex engineers to do this, especially on this car since it has the sensors for the height-adjustable xenon bulbs. Longer down the road I might also consider such possibilities as retrofitting a stock steering wheel audio controls from a GS430 to my GS400 and also putting in a stock 01+ navigation system if it’s possible. But these last two things are just ideas and do not reflect any research yet. Then a rear-view camera will find itself on the car. Additionally, I'm considering some type of secondary ingition protection beyond just the key--such as a keypad, something bluetooth and/or thumbprint scanner (depending on mobile PC install), or maybe keycard reader. I'm also big on radio stuff, such as a ham (the icom one with its own LCD control screen with extra inputs), cb, scanner, etc.)

Edit:
PPS. A big thanks to Todd at TME for a post he did in one of the Sticky's and also to Neo and rominl, whose many posts I have found to be exceptionally valuable.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like you've got this pretty well thought out and nice selections.

Couple of comments on the two above:

Front STB = If you're going to use the EFDC, I'd recommend using the RMM. I'm not sure if the other two will clear the EDFC install (folks with them will certainly chip in and clarify, but I *think* I recall some issues with TRD / Tom's clearing for some folks). You won't go wrong with any one of the three from a quality or handling perspective (not much difference between them).

Front LCB = I'd recommend you do not wait... the stock one is light and this makes a noticible difference in handling IMO, good bang for buck.

Rear LCB = Tom's also makes one of these (I have one) in two flavors. If you don't have Tom's or (I think) Apexi exhaust you'll want the 'open' type, not the closed one.

Neo

iTrader: (3)

Ok, let's go down the list.

Steering ECU
- L-tuned
Subtle but noticeable at high speed. Not as apparent at low city speed driving. Still worth it.

Sway bars:
Daizen for sure for the reasons you cited.

Strut Tower Bracket:
Like Dave said, RMM is your only choice if you plan to install EDFC. The three you listed all work about the same anyway.

Rear Upper Suspension Tower Brace:
Ultimately you want a complete box. If upper towers are tied together, the rear should too. Still, I understand your reasons for not wanting to do this yet. Whether or not you do it though, you'll have to choose from UGO, Cusco, Tom's, and maybe a few others. I have not heard of a TRD one.

Lower Chassis Brace:
- Front. Yes, there is one there but it is pretty small. Plan on doing this when you get a chance later on. Your choices are TRD and Tom's.

- Rear = Actually, TRD does not make a rear LCB. Tom's is what you are looking for.

COILOVERS:
- Tentative FINAL DECISION = Tein CS
Good choice. In general, the Flex will drive circles around the CS (Well, maybe not that bad. ) but, the Flex cannot be tuned to be as smooth as the CS. I tried before waving the white flag and moving on to the CS.


Questions to ask:
- Cost per each install at dealership?
Well, you are going to have to first find a dealer willing to install aftermarket parts.

o Coilovers
o Shocks and Springs
S/S are a little more work than the Tein coilovers since the coilovers (in this case the CS) come preassembled. The dealer will probably charge you the same anyway. I would venture $400 - $600. Independent shops will do this for $150 - $250. The tricky part about coilovers is the height adjustment. You will need multiple iterations to get it just right whereas the S/S are one height.

o Daizen front and rear sway bars
Not sure but it is a pretty straightforward job. Make sure they use all the grease. PU bushings will squeak if not properly lubed.

o Strut tower bracket
Save yourself some money and do this yourself.


What to install first:
- Well, I’ve decided that I’m going to start small and then see how satisfied I am, then I’ll move onto Stage 2 if need be.
o Stage 1:
Steering ECU
Daizen Sway bars
Strut Tower Bracket
Rear LCB
o Stage 2:
Tein CS coilovers.

So what do y’all think? I’m really curious to know y’all’s opinions about my tentative decision regarding CS over Flex coilovers. That’s my biggest ‘uneasy area’.
I actually think you should wait on the STB and the RLCB and go ahead and to the coilovers. I know hte cost is different but the ECU/coilover/sways will give you the biggest bang. The sways will help tremendously on body lean but you will need some performance shocks and springs (in s/s or coilover format) to complete the handling package.

And regarding coilovers, what’s their longevity? How does their longevity compare to stock shocks and springs? A big think to me is reliability and longevity.
I don't think many on here have had their car modded long enough for the longevity test but I can't see why they would not last 40-50k miles. Tein can also overhaul the coilovers for about $100 a corner if you want a refreshed unit. The only probelem would be taking them off and sending it to them. What will you dirve on in the mean time not to mention the install/uninstall cost.




(PS My other future mods (some comments from me )
- LSD(nice),
- TC(nice),
- 01+ rear lamps (no performance here but will transform your car)
- next gen aftermarket navi systems once they come out this summer--which they should(I'm waiting too ).
- front LCB(yes),
- front and rear LSB’s(no front LSB that I can think of, rear would be the Tom's 6-link),
- rear upper tower bar in the trunk(will complete the package),
- new brakes(Are you thinking big brakes? You are severely limited if you stick with your 17s).

Hope this helps.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

damn that's a lot of questions, neo seems to have answered most of them already. couple of things. there is NO such thing as the trd rear lower brace, they only have the front lcb. the rear lcb tom's is the only company who makes them.

install price, it really depends a lot on where you are located and the dealership. they most of the time rip you off big time anyway so it's hard to imagine what mood they are in. but here around LA, install coilvers it would be around 200 bucks? sways maybe 100.

for the front stb, if you want edfc then rmm is the ONLY choice you can get, so that's not even an option. but some diffference is that both trd and tom's they ae ONE piece setup, whereas the rmm is 3 piece. hoenstly, i don't know if it makes any difference, but if you go to simple physics, the rmm would seem to flex a bit more than the trd/tom's coz' of the extra joints

installing daizen sways is straight forward but not DIRECT swap. some of the end links you have to install them opposite, so read the instructives carefully.

and actually, after driving with the cs for a while, personally, even if you push your car quite hard on the road (not track), the flex doesn't really outhandle the cs that much at all imho.

and if i were really to take my car to track, with daily drive in mind, personally i would do the flex, and probably put on ALL the possible braces and bars. the bars and braces will make the car pretty darn stiff so when you are at the track you can run hard. but if you have flex or cs then it will help on the daily driving

hawk

hey guys,

Thank y'all very much for the responses there, and esp w/ regards to RMM STB fitment with the EDFC.....and yeah, i don't know why i was mixing up the tom's and trd RLCB stuff..sorry--must've been more tired than i thought when i wrote everything

Obviously I'm pretty new to some of this stuff, but looking forward to even trying to install the STB and maybe the sways myself, just to get started on trying to do my own work as much as possible....never have done this type of modding to a car, so i'm pretty excited....

if anyone else out there has any pointers or advice for me as i start this, please chime in....

thanks again y'all

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you welcome man, there are TONS of stuff for our cars out there, so it takes a lot of time just to learn everything. frankly for a new guy onboard i think you already know a lot!

FutureGS400

Hawk, you are definitely going about this the right way-reading and doing LOTS of research before taking the plunge!
I did the same and I am sure avoided some mistakes (thanks to CL of course) and ended up very satisfied with my choices.
Not much to add here-others have covered your questions very well. I can just add my support for the Tein CS/Daizen sways combo since that's what I have had on my car for about 4 months and 6-7k miles so far.
Check out my gallery to see another white GS that is set up kind of like you are talking about (note the mods in my sig and my "de-badged" pic since you mentioned that)
Have fun with it...

hawk

Hey guys,

My car's bone stock, and I was just wondering if y'all could give me some input as to which parts you think I could go for to install myself and which parts I should definitely leave to the dealer/qualified shop? Obviously, the Tein CS and the EDFC I'd have installed at dealer/shop.

I know I can install the steering ECU and STB myself. I'm mildly confident I could install the front and rear Daizen Sways myself based on what i've read here. But what do y'all think about the front and rear LSB, esp. w/ consideration to the quality of instructions given with the products and the complexity of the job for a new guy? One minor side concern is whether or not there are certain tightness settings on the bolts ("torque settings???") that only a shop could do because it requires a specialized torque adjustable tool (i certainly don't have that type of tool at all).

On another note, a Lex dealer nearby quoted me $950 for the Tein CS install. I know that's high, but I also know that their mechanics are the best of the best--I know one of the team leader techs (who'd do the job) personally and he's excellent.

But when I called a Tein dealer (private shop which doesn't advertise that they do Lexus on their website), they said they could do it for $280. The Lex dealer said they'd do the alignment and use some of their Laser mumbo-jumbo equipment to make the settings perfect. But I don't know about the private shop and how professionally they'd do it.

Another thing is that, if i had a problem, i actually trust this particular Lex dealer more make sure I'm VERY happy than I would a shop I've never been to and not sure if the private shop has ever done a Lex install. What do y'all think? (should i put up a thread asking other guys if they've used that particular private shop? this private shop wasn't listed on teh bbb.org website so i couldn't see if there were any complaints against them...not that even 5% of complaints ever make it to the bbb anyway)

Thanks again guys; I couldn't be more appreciative of y'all and this site altogether for what I'm hopeful to do.

-Steve

ps....sorry for always putting up long, long posts. i'm very detail-oriented and mr. micro-manager

rominl

iTrader: (4)

950 bucks for installation is completely retarded. it's just a normal springs/shocks replacement, it's not engine swap. while it's not something everyone can do in 1 hour, it's not rocket science neither. even 280 bucks that's a lot already. it will take AT MOST 2 hours for install and maybe another hour for adjustment. with 950 bucks and say 80 bucks a hour for labor, what, that's 12 hours of install? you gotta be kidding me

Neo

iTrader: (3)

The STB and ECU are definitely DIY. The braces (sways, LCB, LSB) are also bolt on. If you are comfortable working under the car, you can probably DIY too. Don't count on the instructions too much though. Except for the Daizen sways, the other instructions are in Japanese. If you can read Japanese, then you'd good to go. That said, there have been members here who have done installs and posted pics. These pics will probably get you farther than the installs.

As for torque specs, some places use them some do not so you are hit and miss there too. If you have the manuals, you can get the numbers for some of these bolts. Some have actually been posted here on CL. Torque wrenches are under $100. If you can do these installs, just factor in the cost of a torque wrench. It will still cost you less and you will get a wrench for your troubles. It comes in handy.

Still, if you just want to not deal with it, pay someone to do it if that is what you are more comfortable with.

$950 is pretty high for a coilover installation even though it includes an alignment. Although the dealers usually have really good alignment machines, so do some of the alignment shops. $280 is more than we pay here in CA but it is more inline with expectations. Do either of these include height adjustments and potentially a followup adjustment when the springs settle a bit. A knowledgeable shop will probably get it good enough that things are at the right levels after settling. But, what if they did not? Will they let you come back for a free followup height adjustment?

You can probably get a really good alignment for $150-$200. I know you may be able to do it for less, but for a specialty alignment shop with top of the line Hunter machines, you may have to pay a little more. Even at $280 + $200, you are still coming out cheaper than the dealer.

hawk

i just called another shop listed on tein's website list of dealers.....regarding installation of the Tein CS, he said, "$175 for the install is the best I can do because Lexus has extra sensors in the back that we gotta be real careful with and require extra attention." and this is the best install price i've found thus far...

what's he talking about with sensors and stuff? VSC maybe?

thanks

rominl

iTrader: (4)

sensor?! i don't know of any sensor in the back that they have to adjust or change. if anything, the hid level sensor (for hid equipped GS) is the one that they might have to play around, but that's something very easy to adjust (basically if it's something i can adjust, i call that relatively easy).

the two top stb are definitely diy, the ecu is super easy. the front lcb is easy, the rear i don't know how hard, i have heard that there are more stuff involved. the rear 6 links they are pretty hard to install from what i heard, could be wrong. sways are a lot easier if you can lift your car high enough.

and 175 is a very good price imho for installation of the coilover