Aristor

I have the Blue TRD sways right now, I was wondering how big a difference would it make if I change to the White ones, how much would it improve my handling and how is the Road feel on the white ones?

RON430

Ride is much closer to the stock bar with the Sportivo's. Cornering is not as flat as with the blue but still markedly improved over the stock bar. From that stanpoint, the handling limit is not as high as with the blues, which shows up in lap times if you put the car in a controlled environment. I think the difference is the confidence that the bars inspire. The whites are capable of very good cornering but they don't "feel" like it. It takes a bit of getting used to after the blues but they produce a much more balanced feel (obviously personal opinion). The blues give you a very large amount of confidence in the cornering capability of the car. The blues shift the cornering capability to other areas, primarily how much and what kind of rubber you have. As I am sure you know, roll in the corners is just about totally gone with the blues.

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

Just how bad are the TRD blues as far as ride comfort? I'm trying to decide Blues vs. Daizens, and I'm seeing that the most everyone likes the Daizens better, but are the TRD Blues really THAT bad?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

No, not at all, in my opinion. But I also have Tein Flex and some people found that too stiff and went to the cushy Tein CS instead.

Your best bet is to get a ride in someone's car who has 'em. Shouldn't be a problem in Joisey.

lexlyf

In your opinion, Bit, what would you recommend for frequent auto crossing?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

No brainer, get TRD blue sways. Yes I've read all the threads about the Daizen sways being supposedly more comfortable and more capable but I don't buy it. I've been in a GS with Daizen sways and they're VERY comfortable and definitely much more capable than stock, but I still give the edge in handling to the blue TRD sways.

I also think that if you really want to do frequent auto crossing, you'll need coilovers because they further eliminate body roll. Eliminating body roll is CRITICAL in tight auto cross courses because the flatter you can keep the car the better the steering works and the better the steering works, the better you can get around without 'scrubbing out' the tires (very easy to doin auto cross - trust me, I've embarassed myself before).

I got the Tein Flex with EDFC to increase my handling capabilities over the L-Tuned I had before but also have the control module (EDFC) to let me set the dampers to more cushy for highway driving, and I couldn't be happier with the 'Flex'ibility.

RON430

Think I'd go with a Corvette, the new hot mustang when it gets here, or a lotus elise.

lexlyf

Not really. I think that any vehicle with carefully selected suspension modifications & such could easily out perform a Vette. I don't know enough about the Lotus Elise to comment on, but I'm
sure it has a distinct power/rate ratio vs. a "stock" Lexus GS.

I guess in my mind & experience, I always speak of Lexus cars from a heavily modified perspective & never stock.

BIT: I have the Tein Flex & EDFC already installed & I agree w/ you. I love the way this "bus" feels in the corners. I have able to manuever pass numerous crotch rockets through corners . Outside of the TRD Blue Sways & Tein Flex/EDFC, what else would your autocrossing GS have installed?

Thanks again.

RON430

Clubs that put on autocrosses, with the exception of the SCCA timed solo events on racetracks, are laying them out with cones in parking lots. Don't think I have ever raced in one put on by the Lincoln Town Car club. Sports car clubs tend to not lay out events for large sedans. While handling is important in autocross, the ability to put power down quickly,brake quickly, and low mass are as, if not more, important. Haven't looked at any autocross times lately but I would guess a manual Miata would easily come in with a lower time than a GS, regardless of suspension. Of course, you also have to watch the rules for the class you are running. Most stock classes will let you change shocks, sway bars, and maybe springs. Using rims that are not stock dimension and offset will usually bump you to a modified or race class. Some organizers may also bump you if you lower very much. Once again, I haven't seriously autocrossed for a while but the last thing you want is for you GS4 to go up against a five speed 540 or, god forbid, an M5 or CTS-V. If you want to have fun autocrossing, get something better suited. Modifying a vette or mustang is a lot cheaper than a GS and a miata or elise would be a hoot and a class winner. It also hurts less if you blow the engine or tranny. Biggest advantage a GS would have is low turnout in the big sedan classes. Enjoy the GS for what it is.

RON430

Made a call to an old friend. Obviously he hasn't seen a GS autocrossed but he looked at some recent national results to see if we could find something similar. Found a supercharged Impala SS that was running 61.60s. A stock Z06 was running 54.90s. After a little searching we found an M5 running at a National event in San Diego that ran 52.1 best time. The winning 89 Corvette in that same class won with a time of 47.288 in A stock. The winning A stock ladies Corvette ran a 50.3. At the same event, a stock S2000 won its class with a 48.5, a Miata came in second with a 48.6, 93 MR2 a 49.5, and an 04 Mustang was running 48.5.

Going to cost a lot of money to find out the difference between a race car (even a fast autocross car) and a street sedan. Then again, you might be able to get a GS faster than a ladies corvette. But you have to wonder why you would want to.

lexlyf

Well, I appreciate the info. As we all know knowledge is power.

You may want to find out what my background is regarding Lexus performance in general & then you will completely understand as to "Why I would want to." LOL Isn't that right Ritchie??!!!

Here's a hint. Someone @ CL gave me an implied nudge to change my previous signature to something more generic. My previous sig said it all, but one could never gather my background reading my sig in its current state.

Please feel welcome to forward more autocross info, as I'm really starting to develop an interest in it. I would like to start competing in events on the East Coast before mid summer.

Later.

RON430

You're right, I don't know your previous sig. But I did win Midwest region F stock autocross a lot of years ago in a Camaro and campaigned other camaros and corvettes and moved on from there to several forms of wheel to wheel racing. To me, racing was about winning in a competitive class. A big V8 running open pipes was part of it which is why I didn't run Healey's or the like. L88 vette was great for a testosterone rush but being beat for lap times by a lotus Elite wasn't. Eventually wound up towing the car to the autocrosses and at that point, wheel to wheel racing seemed more interesting and eventually I could get paid for it. Competitive autocross cars can be driven to the event but man they wind up not being all that pleasant on the street the rest of the time.

There always were guys that were interested in seeing what could be done with a certain marque regardless of its suitability. Have a good time, if you can leave it at that you are very lucky. Winning costs a lot of money. Who knows, maybe you will pull it off. After having my GS on Laguna Seca, it was obvious how hard it is for a GS to put power down. Don't know the current rules but it used to be that doing something like putting LSD in a car that didn't have it, moved you to prepared class all by itself. I understand that SCCA has something like a prepared class that is trying to incorporate something similar to tuner cars but from the little I found out while reminiscing with my friend, big sedans haven't shown themselves to be competitive regardless of mods. If you are going to be serious, get the rule book for the sanctioning body you are going to run in. It will let you know what class you will be in and what's allowed (and what the competition will have). Joining SCCA is a start but there are certainly other autocrosses than the Solo series. Fortunately, I would hope with a GS you won't be going up against the vettes or miatas.

But if you get a GS faster than a vette in an autocross, it will probably be one sick vette. Sorry I don't know the current accepted definition for "sick". In this instance, I mean a vette running on less than four cylinders from the late 70s.

RON430

lexlyf - I have to think the IS would be a better choice if you are serious. If you want to see what is involved, get the April issue of GrassRoots Motorsports Magazine. There is an article that gives a view into what was involved in turning an IS into a ProSolo champ. He used an adjustable l tuned rear stabilizer bar and a custom made front adjustable bar for those of you who believe you never set your car up to your tastes. With 950 lb/in front springs and 750 lb/in rear springs I can only imagine what you would have to put on a GS and what it would ride like on the street.

Good luck.

lexlyf

I agree that the IS is a more suitable platform for autocrossing in comparison to the GS, but I am only working w/ what I have.

I have been reading Grassroots for some time now, taking pertinent pieces of info as I go along. The fact that you mention the same publication, while absorbing your driving history, ensures me that I am on the right track.

I understand that the GS platform may not be best suited for highly competitive autocrossing, but the goal for me, at this juncture, is to learn to become a more technically advanced driver all the while having fun.

RON430

Even with the IS I was amazed in that article that the guy bought an insurance recovery and put a manual transmission in it. I have seen guys replace automatics with sticks and even with models where they were offered that way, it is a whole lot of work. I doubt that IS is street driven as well. Autocross is actually a lot more violent than pure road racing and response (chassis, engine, transmission, brakes) is vital. Let me see if I can get some pictures up, I still have a hangar queen that started out in life as an autocross car and wound up running TA events. Just can't get rid of it. May vintage race it some day.

Then again, Irwindale raceway is starting a new series for stock american sedans. Forget the time period (something mainly around 80s I think) but it is with minimal safety mods, you have to leave the car pretty stock. They figure even buying a prepared car is around $2500 if I remember the story right. That's not much bucks to go wheel to wheel racing. And if you wad it up into a ball, it doesn't hurt near as much as when you don't know how you are going to get to work or school on monday.

Had a lot of fun running a corvair on dirt tracks in the Midwest. Minimal investment and the vair handling was better than anything else in class. Took turns with some other guys running it until an accident turned the race into a demo derby and a friend t boned a stopped buick. Fun while it lasted.