chrisgs

Hi,

i am doing a SUSPENSION and BRAKE set up for my 00 GS300 but i don't know which is the best to go with. Some thing not to stiff, i prefer something like stock. Which one of the following you guys prefer to have on? Please help. Thanks

1) TEIN FLEX $1482
2) TEIN CS, TEIN HA?
3) B+G Coil over $1183
4) Eibach Pro kit Springs+Bilstein shocks $638.38

BRAKE

1)Rotora big brake kit $1755
2)Brembo

rominl

iTrader: (4)

suspention:
1) flex is the best balance between ride and handling. not stiff as HA but stiffer than the CS. handles good, plenty of drop available.
2) don't get HA if you want ride quality. that thing is just stiff. that's the first coilover i got and it's stiff. changd it out after a while. i have the CS now and it's awesome. i think it's safe to say i love the CS the most. i don't lose too much handling over the flex but the ride is like stock even on my 20s
3) forget it, B&G.... some generic brand, won't trust it. friend got it on his is3 for a while and it's nothing but trouble.
4) if you can afford coilover, i don't see any reason to get springs/shocks. i will never put anything but coilovers on all my cars

brake:
1) rotora is ok i guess. i still lean towards getting something else, at least stoptech. that's just me.
2) brembo is one of the best. if you can justify the cost, get it. though by comparison i probably would get ap racing over brembo, coz' they price about the same and the ap racing is better is almost all categories (not trying to hard sell here. i did my hw when i got my ap racing)

btw, for the tein the prices could be a lot lower than that (a lot lower than 1482). email todd at tmengineering (todd@tmengineering.net) and tell him henry refers you. you get much better prices he can get brembo too (or stoptech)

LEXISM

iTrader: (2)

hey if you consider the eibach/ billstein combo you might want to check out the Ltuned combo. itsmade by the same companies and I believe its even beter. made especially for Lexus cars pm SUPRATRD I beleive their going for $400 something go to carson toyota

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

LEXISM, L-Tuned shocks are KYB not Bilstein. The L-Tuned springs are Eibachs but they're tuned by Lexus and not the same as the Eibach sport springs. I had L-Tuned springs/shocks for 2 years and it was a GREAT setup - no complaints.

I just upgraded to Tein Flex coilovers with EDFC to allow me to adjust ride height and damper soft/hardness. I really like this setup but of course I should it cost 3 times what the L-Tuned did.

chrisgs

Rominl, Thanks for your informative explanation about the coilover. Do you consider your coilover as a stock ride quality or the Tein Flex? what is the different between those two? How stiff is Tein Flex compare to Tein CS? Thanks again Rominl

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if you want to as close of a ride as to the stock, get the CS no doubt. it's just soft. it lowers the car, gives you much better handling than the stock, but it allows you to get back the stock ride quality if you run soft on the coilover.

on my gs4, i have 20s, so the ride is a bit harsher anyway. i had the flex and while it's very good, i still thought it's not "soft". but once i got the cs i was like wow, the whole feel becomes different, it's soft, and the overall feeling give me the word "stock" in my mind

i can't really say how much "stiffer" the flex is over the cs though, it's just stiffer. but i believe the cs at the stiffest is still softer than the flex at relatively soft settings. one problem with flex on softer settings is that the car will bounce more compared to running the flex in the middle setting. i guess there is always a "sweet spot" for each coilover

chrisgs

As you explained between two, i will go with the CS. thanks again

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you welcome

chicagoblknazn

I'm leaning more towards them as well. Jesus, this clube is going to make me spend all my money. I'm gonna go broke.

KVA

The shock/spring setup is great if you do not want to drop your car beyond a fixed spring height and can be 3+ times less the cost of coilovers, but coilovers do provide added features and advantages for the added cost.

Generally, the most common shock/spring setup is either of the following:

* The L-Tuned setup is roughly $482 for Springs ($279) and Shocks ($203) from Carson Toyota.
* The Bilstein/Eibach Pro Kit combo costs roughly $670 for Shocks ($450) and Springs ($220) from TM Engineering.

Coilovers come in many different flavors and options but roughly cost considerably more and definitely cost more to install (due to the amount of time needed to adjust each coilover, put the wheels back on, measure the drop, repeat process...).

Generally, shocks and springs are identical to coilovers in how they work (coilovers vs. springs/shocks thread ) ...some of the best explanations coming from DoubleWhoosh (TM Engineering)

"The term coilover refers to the physical placement of a spring around a shock absorber. Older cars for the most part didn't have what is referred to as a "strut". Most had some coil springs on a-arms and/or leaf springs or some combination thereof. The shock absorber was usually separate and connected some suspension arm or axle to the body or usually the frame somewhere.

Newer vehicles (in the effort to save time, money and weight), use what is usually referred to as a McPherson strut assembly, which contains the whole shock and spring in one assembly. Many times this is also an integral part of the suspension, rather than just a separate component that controls height or damping.

In the technical shock world, any shock with a spring on or around it is referred to as a coilover (simply by definition of the word itself).

Now, most aftermarket replacement springs use the existing shock or strut, or a replacement shock that is designed to be a direct replacement. This is fine, especially so if you can find a shock that is matched in damping to the spring that you are using. As mentioned above, there are so many variables with other suspension components, tires, plus user preferences and intended use, that it is pretty hard to cover them all.

This is the beauty of so much stuff on the market, that one can choose what is best for their application. Especially so nowdays with the resource of the internet, where you can exchange information and experiences to help guide you in the right direction.

Now, most race cars, both road and drag have what they refer to as a coilover setup, which has a spring around a shock, but with the added twist of a threaded or adjustable spring seat. This is used sometimes to adjust vehicle height, but also to change spring rate. On a race car, optimum suspension settings are very critical, and this allows the user to make fine adjustments for corner weight, shock absorption, plus usually damping adjustments as well. This is where the more common "coilover" term comes from.

Now some aftermarket companies developed shock and spring setups for street cars (or weekend race cars, or stock-type race cars), and tooled shocks with adjustable spring seats, and specific springs. These of course don't work with the stock parts, you simply remove the whole stock assembly and replace it with the new shock and spring setup. This of course is very expensive to tool and produce, as virtually everything has to be made from scratch. In the world of aftermarket parts, this is not too cost effective, as most people are not willing to spend the $1000 to $3000 that these cost. It takes a serious enthusiast to spend this money, but there are added benefits beyond normal springs and shocks...

The stock shocks are a given length, which is fine for stock use. When using lowered springs, of course the car is sitting lower, but that also causes a problem with losing some of the original suspension travel. Other than the body of the car hitting the ground, the tires hitting inside the wheelwells, or the control arms binding up, the only thing controlling how absolutely low a car will go is usually the shock body itself. Toyotas have a tendency to have longer shocks than some other manufacturers, so lowering them more than 1-1.5" is usually the most you can go. Of course this still causes a loss of suspension travel from static ride height until the suspension is bottomed out due to the length of the original shock. This is something you cannot escape no matter what. This is where the aftermarket coilover setups can be much superior...

These are designed with the shock and spring together, and are also intended for use in lowered applications. Why is this important to us? Because they will make the shock SHORTER than the stock shock. This allows the suspension to travel more before bottoming out. This also allows the shock to stay in an optimum portion of its stroke during normal use, which is something that the stock shock doesn't get to do.

There are very few manufacturers that are willing to make a direct replacement shock that is significantly different from the OE unit, probably due to compatibility issues or what not. This is where the coilover setups reign superior, and are also able to ride better at the same or lower heights. It is when the suspension bottoms out on the bump stops when the suspension provides a "bad ride."

Some Koni and Bilstien shocks also have adjustable spring seat shocks, which have grooves milled into the shock body with a c-clip that can be adjusted to change the height of the spring seat. This is basically the same thing as the threaded adjustment seats, just without the infinitely adjustable height adjustment. But once again it all comes down to the length and design of the shock itself."

At the end of the day, I think it comes down to what your budget is (under $1K w/install or over $1K w/Install), and what are you trying to accomplish (huge drop, better handling, good looks, racing...).

I have personally been on both sides and they both have their pro's and con's...ultimately if you want the most flexibility, go with coilovers. Just make sure you look into Manaray's post of the various manufacturer's stiffness ratings or you'll end up spending more money to switch to a softer coilover.

chicagoblknazn

Now that I have read this, I am almost certain that I should move towards the Tein CS Coilovers. Knowing my nature, I would hastily get the springs and shocks, and that set up would work for me just fine until I learn a bit more about shocks, coilovers, springs and suspensions. After learning about the subject more, I would want more and better; ultimately a coilover setup. Assuming that I opt to go with the latter choice, are there any known problems with that setup vs. a new spring & shocks setup. With that I am referring to tire wear, mechanical breakdowns of the suspension parts, alignment issues, etc.?

KVA

Since there is no available camber kit available for the 98+ GS, the lower you drop the car, the more issues you will have with aligning the car to eliminate inside tire wear. The type of tire also plays into this as some soft high performance tires (Bridgstone S03) will wear faster then some higher tread rated tires...generally people are getting about 10K - 15K miles on a set of Z-rated tires on a dropped car.

Just make sure you take your car to a dependable service garage who you trust will give you the best quality work. You also want to ensure that you get an alignment after you install the coilovers or shocks/springs...wait a week or two for everything to settle into place.

I am sure other will chime in with experiences...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

as KVA said there is no camber kit for the car so the more you drop, the worse it gets. you can look into my gallery, i drop my car a lot to almost no finger gap, but the camber isn't off by THAT much actually, so imho it's good. i don't really have much uneven wear too

and if you have the car for 10 yrs of course some of teh bushings will wear out, etc... but nothing major imho

go with CS, have it, love it (proud owner of HA, flex, and now CS)

chicagoblknazn

OI VEY!!!!!!!!

That means I will need a new pair of tires every year. I bought my GS on 12/17/04 and I have added 6K miles so far. I can't keep buying Pilot Sports yearly.....yeah, i'm gonna go broke.

ROMIML: What is your opinion on Coilovers vs. Spring/Shocks

KVA

LOL...Rominl has owned the entire Tein coilover product line (almost)...and you want to know what he prefers

I can answer that question for you...Tein CS Coilovers (also, I think he already answered the question earlier in the post..."i will never put anything but coilovers on all my cars") Hahaha...may want to ask some other members that have had both and what they felt were the pro's and con's...

(didn't mean to steal your thunder Rominl )