Running lean with RR tuned intake (CEL P0101)
01-10-17, 07:30 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Running lean with RR tuned intake (CEL P0101)
After a month of installing and removing the RR tuned intake I am at a loss. I have been in contact several times with Rafi and Simon and can't seem to get to the bottom of this issue. When I run the stock airbox and the corresponding RR tune I get a car that runs like stock with the desired ignition advance, long fuel trims of a max +3%, and overall a smooth performance for daily driving. When I swap to RR tuned intake and the flash for the tune I sometimes get a high idle, I get long fuel trims around +10% at idle and near +30% at cruising speeds on the highway. I consistently trip P0101 (MAF out of desired range) within 10 miles of driving. I have endlessly checked over installation. You would think that this could be a vacuum leak from the installation, but none have ever been found. I have replaced the MAF housing twice, once with a pipe I had made and once with a second unit sent from Simon. I have replaced the MAF sensor twice. I have also replaced downstream O2 sensors, and my upstream were replaced 75 days before installing the intake when the headers where installed.
My question is, do I have an underlying issue with the car that causes it to run lean once it sees the additional airflow from the larger MAF housing coupled with the more aggressive tune? Or, is this strictly a tune issue? To my knowledge, only one other member had a problem with the P0101 code. Rafi revised the the tune and it seems to be working well for him, although it makes no difference for me.
My question is, do I have an underlying issue with the car that causes it to run lean once it sees the additional airflow from the larger MAF housing coupled with the more aggressive tune? Or, is this strictly a tune issue? To my knowledge, only one other member had a problem with the P0101 code. Rafi revised the the tune and it seems to be working well for him, although it makes no difference for me.
01-10-17, 08:10 AM
#2
First off, good luck working this out.
From my Suby tuning experience, tuning (scaling the MAF table) for a larger intake is not a very complex process and is generally straight forward. Rafi and his team have proven their tuning skills, I do not think it is the tune.
The issue you are having sounds to like it is intake or install related - maybe some sort of leak, maybe some weird turbulence being caused by the intake itself. I suggest trying a replacement intake (not just the maf housing part).
From my Suby tuning experience, tuning (scaling the MAF table) for a larger intake is not a very complex process and is generally straight forward. Rafi and his team have proven their tuning skills, I do not think it is the tune.
The issue you are having sounds to like it is intake or install related - maybe some sort of leak, maybe some weird turbulence being caused by the intake itself. I suggest trying a replacement intake (not just the maf housing part).
01-10-17, 08:14 AM
#3
Pole Position
Thread Starter
First off, good luck working this out.
From my Suby tuning experience, tuning (scaling the MAF table) for a larger intake is not a very complex process and is generally straight forward. Rafi and his team have proven their tuning skills, I do not think it is the tune.
The issue you are having sounds to like it is intake or install related - maybe some sort of leak, maybe some weird turbulence being caused by the intake itself. I suggest trying a replacement intake (not just the maf housing part).
From my Suby tuning experience, tuning (scaling the MAF table) for a larger intake is not a very complex process and is generally straight forward. Rafi and his team have proven their tuning skills, I do not think it is the tune.
The issue you are having sounds to like it is intake or install related - maybe some sort of leak, maybe some weird turbulence being caused by the intake itself. I suggest trying a replacement intake (not just the maf housing part).
01-10-17, 08:15 AM
#4
Pole Position
Agree with Vervish's above comment^^^^^I don't think it's the tune, have you tried replacing the entire tuned intake? See if Rafi and Simon will send you out an exchange unit to see if that helps and you can send back the old one for them to examine for defects???
01-10-17, 08:28 AM
#5
I have considered that as well. But I inspected the velocity stack and filter and both look flawless. Rafi and Simon have been great through the process with great communication as I troubleshoot. I can't stress that enough. Many companies would just let you flounder on your own. They, on the other hand, have been very willing to help in any way possible.
01-10-17, 03:50 PM
#6
Check around where the MAF bracket mates to the duct. I had a small area where the silicon had separated which would have caused a air leak.I discovered this before I installed the intake so I am not sure if it would have impacted my engines performance.
01-10-17, 03:53 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
That is a good idea. I had that happen with my first MAF pipe as well. I have an all aluminum pipe with a welded housing that a fabricator made as well as a new pipe from Rafi that has no leaks. That would definitely cause issues, but I have checked that one off the list of possibilities.
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01-11-17, 07:36 AM
#9
This goes back to my boost days. Two quick solutions for finding vac leaks. A small propane torch (unlit of course) and listen for a idle change, or a soap mixture in a spray bottle that you can direct to where you think the leak is.
The problem here might be that the leak is intermittent, at idle the leak maybe sufficiently sealed that the two above solutions may not work, WOT or even partial throttle maybe enough to pull a tear on a silicone coupling open.
On a turbo car vac leaks are a nightmare because of the positive boost pressure blowing couplings off, and the miles of couplings that you have, when this happens you get a massive air leak resulting in a extremely rich condition. I normally swapped all the couplings I had along with clamps biyearly. On a simple intake there likely wouldn't be more than a few couplings, to be honest I'd probably just replace the couplings first and see what that would net me.
The problem here might be that the leak is intermittent, at idle the leak maybe sufficiently sealed that the two above solutions may not work, WOT or even partial throttle maybe enough to pull a tear on a silicone coupling open.
On a turbo car vac leaks are a nightmare because of the positive boost pressure blowing couplings off, and the miles of couplings that you have, when this happens you get a massive air leak resulting in a extremely rich condition. I normally swapped all the couplings I had along with clamps biyearly. On a simple intake there likely wouldn't be more than a few couplings, to be honest I'd probably just replace the couplings first and see what that would net me.
01-11-17, 10:10 AM
#10
This goes back to my boost days. Two quick solutions for finding vac leaks. A small propane torch (unlit of course) and listen for a idle change, or a soap mixture in a spray bottle that you can direct to where you think the leak is.
The problem here might be that the leak is intermittent, at idle the leak maybe sufficiently sealed that the two above solutions may not work, WOT or even partial throttle maybe enough to pull a tear on a silicone coupling open.
On a turbo car vac leaks are a nightmare because of the positive boost pressure blowing couplings off, and the miles of couplings that you have, when this happens you get a massive air leak resulting in a extremely rich condition. I normally swapped all the couplings I had along with clamps biyearly. On a simple intake there likely wouldn't be more than a few couplings, to be honest I'd probably just replace the couplings first and see what that would net me.
The problem here might be that the leak is intermittent, at idle the leak maybe sufficiently sealed that the two above solutions may not work, WOT or even partial throttle maybe enough to pull a tear on a silicone coupling open.
On a turbo car vac leaks are a nightmare because of the positive boost pressure blowing couplings off, and the miles of couplings that you have, when this happens you get a massive air leak resulting in a extremely rich condition. I normally swapped all the couplings I had along with clamps biyearly. On a simple intake there likely wouldn't be more than a few couplings, to be honest I'd probably just replace the couplings first and see what that would net me.
01-11-17, 10:19 AM
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01-11-17, 01:14 PM
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