ISF117

Been in love with the IS-F since I was like 16, tried to persuade my dad to get one but he never did. Will soon be in the market to by one myself between $20-30k, but now I've gotta think if it's the best buy for me, or if I should get something else.

I'm attending a university out west, so snow comes and goes in the winter months, and I've heard the F doesn't do so well in that stuff. Wouldn't mind a rack for snowboards, skis, etc. Thought about something lke an S4 in the same price range. How does an 08-10 F compare to a 10-13 s4?

Just really trying to decide if AWD is worth the trade off of not having my F and all of it's glory. I've driven an F, but never really been able to compare the difference to another 4 door with awd. Reliability is another thing, as I'll be purchasing something with some miles on it.

Any opinions or other car suggestions with similar performance?

Aron9000

Cadillac CTS-V. 556hp of supercharged V8 glory!!!

Thing is with the IS-F or the Cadillac, you will need a dedicated set of winter wheels and tires to drive the thing in the snow. The extra set of wheels is necessary because these cars run mongo wide 19" performance rubber with no sidewall, the smaller winter wheels will give you skinnier tires with more sidewall, think of the tires like a snow shoe. Big, wide tires glide along the top of snow, skinny, narrow tires with more sidewall cut through the snow to the pavement.

Anyways, if you are budget constrained to 20-30k, I'd buy the newest BMW 135i, 235i, 335i, or 535i with AWD you can find. Or if you want an SUV, the X3 and X5 both came with the same turbocharged inline six as those sedans and coupes. The sedans/coupes with that engine are pretty fast with 300hp stock, but the thing is with about $1500 worth of intake/exhaust and a computer tune, you're looking at an extra 100-150hp, so you get that sort of kick in the pants power of the IS-F in a more practical car with AWD. Plus with the BMW you are going to get a newer, much lower mile car in near mint condition for what a higher mile, ragged on IS-F will go for.

S2000toIS350

Time for more practical input

Subaru Imprezza

a high power RWD car in a snowy climate is fine on clear roads but not in crappy weather, even with snow tires

spend more on lift passes

get your high power car after school
​​​​​​​

mmarshall

Totally agree. Snow tires may help slightly, but, in general, RWD just doesn't cut it in bad weather. That's why car-based AWD was developed.

If you want an IS, rather than a RWD IS-F, you might want to take a look at the IS350 AWD. Its tires probably aren't the best for snow, but it will do far better on slippery roads than a RWD version. The less-expensive IS250AWD (which is extremely popular here in the D.C. area where I live) is also a possibility, but you will probably find it underpowered for your tastes.

geko29

Disagree. The ONLY thing AWD helps you do in the snow is accelerate. It does not help you turn or stop, both of which are more important than acceleration where safety is concerned. Snow tires help you with all three.

Having both options available to me, harsh weather causes me to take my high-power RWD car (500lbft of torque) out into the snow, because it handles much more safely on its Blizzaks than either of the AWD SUVs (RX350 and Murano) do on their all-seasons.

People who haven't driven extensively on snow tires don't comprehend what a huge difference they make. This is most likely why Mike describes the contrast as "slight", when in reality it is anything but. The experience is very much akin to driving on damp roads with brand new Pilot Super Sports vs. totally bald low-rolling-resistance tires.

Here's one test to highlight the point. Notables:

Acceleration, time to cover 200 feet:
RWD/All-Season: 11 seconds
AWD/All-Season: 8 seconds
RWD/Snow tires: 8 seconds
AWD/Snow tires: 6 seconds

Braking, distance to stop from 30mph:
RWD/All-Season: 89 feet
AWD/All-Season: 102 feet
RWD/Snow tires: 59 feet
AWD/Snow tires: 61 feet

Cornering speed:
RWD/All-Season: Slid off road at 25mph
AWD/All-Season: Slid off road at 25mph
RWD/Snow tires: Completed turn at 25mph
AWD/Snow tires: Completed turn at 25mph

Note that only in acceleration is AWD/All-Season even remotely comparable to any vehicle equipped with snow tires. The 55% increase in stopping distance from just 30mph (and it only gets worse at higher speeds) is perhaps the most concerning of all, as that is most likely to be the determinant between an uneventful drive home and totaling your car. Here's another one:

And here's what Canada's Traffic Injury Research Association (somewhat analogous to our NTSB) has to say:

mmarshall

Well, of course, AWD with snow tires has more traction than AWD without. But, even without snow tires or electronic traction-aids, the ability of AWD to get you going from a standing still without getting stuck is one of its best features....and that is what is most important. How the vehicle corners or stops is of little consequence if you can't even get it rolling....and you have to be careful in the snow either way.

S2000toIS350

You can post 2000 lines of data if you think that is going to make a point

I am all in for winter tires, my Pirelli Sottozero 3s will be going on my new NSX soon

in the real world AWD is a huge help in turning or staying on track in slippery conditions

i had Blizzaks on my IS350 and it was terrible once things got slick

Sulu

Reminds me of that old saying: AWD just gets you deeper in the ditch.

geko29

We disagree on this point, but that doesn't matter. I've demonstrated that RWD with snows is identical to AWD without in acceleration, so that satisfies your most important factor. Two driven tires with more traction per tire are equivalent to four tires with less.

Both vehicles are now rolling at a modest 30mph, and now you have to stop. You have a clear preference for the vehicle that is still going 20mph when mine has stopped safely, but can't articulate why without coming back to acceleration, which is irrelevant. Four braking tires with more traction per tire are superior to four tires with less. And since rear-end collisions and intersection altercations (read: inability to stop at a stop sign or red light) are two of the three leading causes of accidents in cold weather (the third being visibility impairments, obviously unaffected by driveline or tire choice), the ability to stop is of more than "little consequence".

S2000toIS350

The idea here is to provide useful info to the OP

an Imprezzaa is a better idea than an ISF for his purposes and having snow tires in the winter is the way to go

Aron9000

The big advantage with AWD vs RWD I've found is starting on hills. And having the right tires, a good set winter tires, is IMO way more important than if the car is FWD, RWD, or AWD. Winter tires will grip better than all seasons, which dramatically reduces your braking distances and makes the car WAY less likely to skid in a turn. Also not all RWD cars are created equal, cars like a BMW with 50/50 weight distribution are inherently easier to drive in the snow vs something like an old Camaro or pickup truck that has all its weight on its nose(also if you do have RWD, putting a couple bags of sand in the trunk or bed really does make a difference)

C1Forged

For your 20-30k price point look into a Forester XT. You have clearance for any mountain road you will face, AWD to help in the snow, and the FA20DIT engine out of the new WRX, but with its own version of the SI Drive [X Mode] that the STI shares, thats tweaked for off-road assistance. You can haul as much as you want, while hauling ***, and there's full aftermarket support for more power.

Aron9000

Subarus are so ugly though. The new WRX doesn't even look like a WRX, more like a Toyota Corolla clone. Still they're a fun car to drive, practical, and it would be a new car with a warranty.

ISF117

I just hate that everyone and their dog has a subaru. You bring up a great point though, and I might just wait out a while till I can get what I really want. I've got a few months to think it over before I'm planning to buy anyways.

ISF117

Love the input guys, especially on the snow tires, I'm definitely not as familiar with those as I should be. Does anybody have any S4 opinions or thoughts on quattros in general?

I'm totally down to leave the F idea for a few years, but I just wanna find something that'll be practical enough in mountain passes, and fun and sexy year round, not just practical.