grayson73

Do you guys think AWD is necessary in MD/DC/VA?

pbm317

AWD typically isn't "necessary" anywhere. If you're willing to swap out tires for winter tires, that's the biggest difference. Obviously the ultimate would be AWD with Winter Tires. But i'd argue that in a lot of situations, a FWD or RWD with Winter Tires could be more effective than AWD with all season type tires. Yes AWD can help cross snow banks/medians, or safely push/pull a vehicle across ice patches, etc.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Really depends on how you drive. I got through 1.5 winters with my RWD IS on all weather tires in NJ. But I also had flexibility in my job to work from home whenever a storm was threatening and the roads that I frequented were plowed well and regularly

SW17LS

I've lived in the DC area my whole life, I've had FWD, RWD and AWD Lexus (and other) vehicles in this area. Is it necessary? No, but it makes life here a lot easier.

We don't get enough snow here and it doesn't stay cold enough long enough to make winter tires make sense. Yet we do get a couple good storms most years. In those storms my RWD Lexus cars were basically undrivable on all season tires. My AWD Lexus cars are awesome, and my FWD cars were fine. Also in our area you travel a little to the north, a little to the west and it gets a lot snowier real quick. Also remember they don't clear roads as well or as quickly here as they do in say NJ.

If you have another more snow worthy car just park a RWD Lexus on those snow days. If you don't though, I would strongly reccomend the AWD. I like knowing I can get out when the weather is bad, and that I can travel to snowier areas.

In any event it's kind of a moot point, if the model comes in AWD here that's basically all they stock.

Aron9000

I've driven a RWD Cadillac in 4-6" of snow a few years ago. Threw a couple bags of sand in the trunk and it was unstoppable. Without that weight in the rear it was undrivable.

I think it mainly depends on where you are driving. In the mountains of VA/MD, AWD is a must. It snows a lot more and they don't clear the roads. Also if you have a job like doctor at a hospital where you have to get to work no matter what, get the AWD.

Also you might want to consider your local car market. Not having the AWD option on a car/SUV that is sold both ways(2wd and 4wd) can hurt the value and make it harder to sell. Look around at your local new and used car dealers on the type of car you are thinking about buying. See if most of them have AWD or not. I know where I live(Nashville) its not a huge deal if your Benz doesn't have 4Matic or you have a 2wd SUV, but I'm sure up north it would be harder to sell unless you priced it cheap.

mmarshall

I live fairly close to Steve (SW15LS), and he's generally summed it up pretty well. AWD is probably a crap shoot in this area. The severity of winters (and the amount of snow) that we get here can vary enormously from one year to the next. Last winter, for instance, we got nothing at all in the way of snow almost all winter....then a massive 30-inch blizzard near the end. The two winters before that, though, were like ice boxes....and before that, quite mild.

I disagree, though, with what some posters claim......that, all else equal, RWD and winter tires are as good as AWD (and yes, I've owned RWD cars). FWD and winter tires may or may not be, depending on the specific vehicle and tire type. My AWD 2006 Subaru Outback was the most amazing winter car I ever owned...I went through snow and ice conditions with it that would have grounded a polar bear LOL.

Aron9000

^AWD is far superior to FWD and RWD. All else being said, I'd take RWD(with appropriate tires, ie no 305 width performance tires like a Corvette) any day of the week over FWD. If you start to slide in a RWD car and know what you are doing(ie a bit of throttle and steer the opposite way of the skid) you can get it back.

FWD does give you better traction starting out and probably feels less scary to the average driver in the snow than RWD, but once you start to skid or plow(ie turn the wheel and nothing happens), you're just along for the ride until you manage to slow down enough to regain traction.

Sulu

Some thoughts on this subject...

Snow (winter) tires will give you more traction in the cold weather than summer or all-season tires. Every winter here, they continually remind us that all-season rubber gets harder as temperatures drop and at 7deg Celsius (45deg Fahrenheit), the rubber is too hard to provide adequate traction; DC winter temperatures are likely below 45deg.

Snow tires will give you traction but ground clearance will get you over the snowbanks. Some years ago, I drove up north of Toronto (to the Barrie, Ontario -- snowbelt -- area) every weekend in the mid-winter; my FWD Corolla could clear snowbanks that a similar FWD Civic could not because the Civic rode lower.

Snow tires or AWD will give you the traction (giving you driving confidence) to get going but once you step on the brakes, AWD will not help you while the soft rubber of snow tires will. Thus the saying: "AWD just gets you deeper in the ditch".

Not that many years ago (to some of us), North American cars were RWD (like Aron's Cadillacs), including small cars such as the Chevy Chevette and Vega, and Ford Pinto; and FWD imports like the Civic and Accord were few and far between. As the temperatures started to drop, we all religiously switched our rear tires for snow tires and religiously swapped them back in the Spring (note that we only switched rear tires, not all 4 as they recommend now), and for added traction, we placed bags of sand or kitty litter in the cargo area (which could be spread under the rear tires if we really became stuck).

I have not switched to winter tires since my first FWD 1987 Corolla came with all-season tires, but then, I live in an urban area where roads and highways are kept clear of snow; if there is a big snowstorm, I just stay off the roads until they are clear. In order to encourage winter tire use here in the province of Ontario (the province of Quebec has made it illegal to drive without winter tires in the winter), insurers are offering discounts for winter tire use, but this summer, I have seen a number of cars that did not remove winter tires. I am thinking that replacing all-season tires for fresh, new ones more often (before old tire rubber dries out and turns hard) may be better than putting on snow tires for the winter and then forgetting to remove them come the summer.

I believe that if you really are concerned, a good set of winter tires can be used instead of AWD.

Sulu

I beg to differ. For the average, mediocre driver, FWD is safer than RWD because it is easier to handle. In a skid situation, the FWD car will understeer while the RWD car will oversteer. To the average driver, understeer is easier to recover from -- just lift off the accelerator and weight transfers back toward the front driving wheels. But oversteer is harder to recover from and tends to induce panic and over-control.

SW17LS

Thats just the point, who wants to throw bags of sand in the trunk of your car every time its snows? What if you come out from the movies and find 3 inches of snow on the ground. Do you drive around with sand all winter? Changes the fuel economy and dynamics of the car.

Thats why the AWD is really great in our area, because it transitions between 50 degree days which we have a lot of in the winter, and 6 inches of snow without missing a beat.

Let me reword that. RWD with winter tires is as good as AWD with all season tires. AWD with winter tires will be the best of all. FWD with winter tires is inferior to RWD with winter tires because of the inherent compromises made when the propulsive wheels and the steering wheels are the same wheels. In a RWD car you can help steer the car with the throttle, which you can't do with a FWD car. Loss of traction from acceleration also doesn't loose all steering input as with a FWD car.

Thats just it, our winter weather hovers average about 45 degrees, which means we spend plenty of time over 45 degrees when we actually have traction reduced with winter tires. Its just not a climate that rewards running winter tires.

Stretches of temps in the 60s is not at all unusual in the middle of winter here.

Its a great location for AWD.

Incendiary

Get snow tires.

I have them for both of our cars. One is rwd and the other awd. We both have to get to work no matter the weather. Neither of us have had a problem. I even drove through the really bad storm last year and up a steep hill in my rwd car despite the cop at the bottom of the hill turning everyone else away.

Aron9000

That was my point, for the average joe FWD feels safer because they aren't used to oversteer. And also because that's most likely what they've grown up with, since FWD cars have dominated the market for the past 30 years. If you know what you're doing and practice spinning around/recovering from slides in a RWD car in an empty parking lot, I find it easier to control than FWD.

Main thing with snow driving is just take it slow and you'll get there eventually. RWD kind of forces you to take it slow because its easier to break the rear wheels loose with too much throttle at 20 or 30mph, kind of scares you a bit and forces you to slow down. Meanwhile that idiot in his 4wd pickup with more grip that passed you doing 45mph on the straight section of road is now in the ditch where the road curved. Seen that happen so many times in Tennessee with people driving way too fast in 4wd cars/trucks, especially big/heavy 4wd trucks.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

My AWD GS with all season tires is doing worse in snow than my previous RWD GS did with winter tires.
I have driven my previous GS through some harshest winters here in NY and never once did I get stuck in snow. I took the car out in blizzards, through some deepest snows here and it just kept going. Winter tires make all the difference.

greg3852

I've driven my RWD LS460 through the worst winter Boston has ever seen and did not have any issues. Depends a lot on the driver. Mashing the peddle to the floor and being surprised when you can't control it vs driving slow and cautious makes a big difference. I have never had an issue the traction control couldn't straighten out quickly.

grayson73

Thanks for the advice. I guess it comes down to whether I want to put on winter tires/not use the car when it snows if I decide on RWD instead of AWD.