mmarshall

Well, since my local Chevy/Buick/GMC shop now has some Envisions in stock, I decided to stop by late this morning and check them out....at least visually, in a static-inspection. Because this is the first vehicle mass-produced in a Chinese plant to be marketed and sold in the United States, and I had never had a chance to check out a Chinese-built product, I especially wanted to concentrate on the overall fit/finish and general assembly quality. I decided, for several reasons, not to do any test-drives today....time constraints (I had spent a lot of time on simply the visual and seating inspections), lunch-hour traffic in a notoriously gridlocked area making for unsuitable conditions for a general test-drive, and the fact that, even in the middle of the day, I was rather tired and hungry after the inspections (I rested and had a nice lunch afterward at a nearby Olive Garden). My knee, after surgery, though generally much better than several weeks ago, also felt a little weak today, though not enough so to prevent a static-review (I had the knee-brace on, unlocked, this morning, just in case). So, I decided not to do a test-drive (or a full-review) today.....I can always do one later.


Several Envisions were on the lot......and a black one in the showroom, parked (where else LOL?).......between the smaller Buick Encore and larger Buick Enclave SUVs. (that showroom is huge, and they have maybe a dozen Chevy, Buick, and GMC products in it). In general exterior size, of course, the mid-sized Envision slots in between the other two Buick SUVs, though it is quite a bit narrower than the big Enclave, and, to my eyes, appears somewhat closer to the compact/subcompact Encore (I say subcompact because, though marketed as a compact SUV, dimensions, The Encore is done on the Chevy Sonic's subcompact platform). Some of the Envisions parked on the lot were shipped across the Pacific, from the plant without even their full price-stickers....they had printed stickers on them that said that full-pricing info was not available yet. So how about that?. Buick has got models in stock they can't even price........maybe the daily price going to depend on the dollar/Yuan exchange rate LOL. Then, of course, if Trump gets elected this fall, he wants (if possible) to put a 35% tariff on all goods produced overseas by American companies and imported back into the U.S.....yep, just like the Envision. But that's a political subject for another thread, not this one, and I won't get into that any further here.

(Just for the record, the black one parked in the showroom, which I spent more time on inspecting than the others, listed at around 45K, with a base price of 42K.)

For now, all U.S.-bound Envisions are assembled at the SAIC GM Dong Yue Foundry Plant, in Yantai, China. Just like many of you (yes, I read a lot of the same stuff), I have heard a number of horror-stories of Chinese plants producing automotive junk....much like the Korean plants of 25-30 years ago giving us Hyundai, Kia, and Daewoo products that were the butt of late-night jokes. Today, of course, Korean plants, and other plants around the world that produce Korean-badged vehicles, can compete with almost anyone, anywhere, in general quality control.

And, I have to admit.......so can this plant at Yantai that produces the Envion. Based on what I saw today among the Envisions, their general level of automotive fit/finish was about as good as anything I've seen from Japan, Europe, Korea, North America, or anywhere else. I was genuinely surprised....I had expected at least some teething issues, and/or less than what would normally be acceptable by American standards. But, no, that wasn't the case. This plant at Yantai seems to have its act together....at least as far as general fit/finish is concerned (there were one or two quirks, but not necessarily plant-related...I'll get into that below). Now, without a test-drive, of course, one cannot check for things like squeaks/rattles, misaligned/out-of-balance wheels/tire, shimmies, wind noise, or engine/transmission issues, but I was impressed with how well the Envisions I saw were generally screwed together. And, as I said earlier, I spent a lot of time inspecting things. The paint jobs were all virtually smooth as a mirror, even the generally hard-to-do black. The exterior sheet metal seems solid and of good quality, though the doors themselves didn't shut with a particularly solid-sounding thunk, and the lightweight hood felt like it was made out of aluminum. The hood itself had nice gas struts...no annoying manual prop-rod. Everything under the hood seemed to be securely attached....cables, wires, bolts, etc..... All of the outside hardware seemed to be quite-solidly attached except for a very small wobble in the door pull-handles. The outside mirrors swung and snap-locked smoothly, solidly, and crispy. The chrome grille and some other trim-parts, off ours, were plastic, but were smoothly-finished and solidly attached. Korean Hankook tires were mounted at the factory, which was somewhat of a surprise.....I had expected maybe a Chinese brand, unless for some reason they didn't meet meet DOT/NHTSA tire-standards. The body panel-gaps were not quite as narrow as I've seen on some vehicles, but they were all consistent in their widths, didn't vary, and I couldn't see any evidence of misalignment (on many new vehicles, of course, doors and panels are laser-aligned for accuracy). The classic chrome Buick-trim port-hole assemblies are mounted on the sides of the hood (unfortunately, they are missing in the new Cascada convertible).....but the Buick logo is the chrome triple-shield. Buick is not bringing back its old classic red/white/blue logo tri-shield until the new Lacrosse debuts in October.

Inside, the interior fit/finish was just as good as the outside, although the seat-leather and/or some other interior parts seemed to emit an unpleasant smell....definitely not the typical new-car smell that mesmerizes so many potential buyers of new vehicles and gets them to sign on that dotted line. Besides the smell, I also didn't like the seats themselves, which were quite small by American standards, and seemed to be designed more for shorter, thinner Chinese persons and other Asians than for big, tall, heavy guys like me. The cushions were small, narrow, flat, lacking bolstering, overly-firm (especially by Buick standards), uncomfortable, and woefully lacking support. Back to the drawing board, guys....the rest of this vehicle may cut it in the American market, but the seats won't. But, of course, one cannot blame the plant for that......the workers and robots can only assemble what the managers and engineers give them.

The rest of the interior seemed first-rate in its assembly quality, though. One can argue about whether the design of the wood-tone trim is attractive or not, but either way, it is well-attached. All of the hardware seemed securely-attached....though, at this price, I was surprised that the steering column didn't have power-assist for the tilt/telescope functions. The materials used inside seemed mostly of good quality....though the thin ivory-colored fabric covering the thick, hard-plastic sun-visors felt a little cheap. I liked the fact that Buick uses a conventional fore/aft shifter on the console instead of the electronic-stick that the new LaCrosse will have...for further comment, I'll wait for a formal 2017 Lacrosse review, but, in general, I'm not impressed with the electronic shifters. And, in general, I much-preferred the two-tone black/ivory leather interior to the darker, coal-mine-like, solid black one. In the rear, the cargo sea was large and roomy (thank the conservative, high, roofline), and very well-finisted, with relatively thick, soft-feel black carpeting and real chrome cargo-hooks.

So, in a nutshell, except for the lousy front seats, IMO this vehicle is ready to go in the American market. But please.......redesign those seats.

Toys4RJill

Whether it's well built or not, it's a complete shame and total insult to the American people that this thing is built in the China.

At $42k, GM should ship em' all back....and leave the CT6 Hybrid there while they are at it

mmarshall

So you think a Chinese-made car is an insult? Next time you're at Walmart's, Target, or almost any discount/department store, take a look at most of the labels on what you're buying. Your own house is (probably) full of Chinese-made stuff.

JDR76

Looks nice.

grabber2

And car built in Mexico or Canada is OK? I don't get it and tired of hearing the made in China BS. My iPhones & all my electronics (Samsung, Dell, Sony) are all made in China.

Should the Chinese be ashamed that Buick is the no.1 seller in China?

Toys4RJill

Canada is fine. Not sure about Mexico. But an American company like GM should not be importing from China

mmarshall

Jill lives in Canada (Toronto).

mmarshall

Well, you drive a Corolla. Guess where the next-generation Corolla is going to be built?......Mexico.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...tory/25811997/

Toyota Motor (TM) says it is building a $1 billion factory in Mexico to manufacture a radical, new Corolla compact that will go on sale as a 2020 model.

A combination of the low costs of doing business in Mexico, a strong regional supplier base and new Toyota architecture called TNGA should make the 2020 Corolla more competitive on price and otherwise, says Jim Lentz, CEO of the big automaker's North American region.

It will be "better looking" than the current model, which he says is "a little bit tall and not very sleek."

The new architecture — or basic materials and methods used to build the car's chassis and body — will result in "a lower center of gravity, better ride and handling, lighter weight for better fuel efficiency," Lentz tells USA TODAY.

The automaker calls the system Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA), and says it is "a comprehensive approach to achieving sustainable growth by making ever-better vehicles more efficiently."

It sounds somewhat like Mazda's Skyactiv approach, in which each model weighs less, gets better mileage and has better performance and handling than its predecessor, mainly due to lightweight materials and enhanced gasoline engine technology.

The approach is not a magic bullet. Doing those things can raise costs — lightweight materials cost more than basic steel, for example — so an automaker has to find ways to cut the costs to avoid big price increases. Mazda uses inventive manufacturing techniques, especially on engines, Mexico production is part of Toyota's solution.

The factory to be built in Guanajuato, in central Mexico, will create 2,000 jobs, and is to begin production in 2019. It will be able to build 200,000 Corollas a year for North America and possibly for export. Corolla also is made at Blue Spring, Miss., and in Ontario, Canada.

The Mississippi-made Corollas also are exported to 18 countries, Lentz says.

It's unclear if the Mexico cars will be exported. That production will, however, replace Corolla production in Canada.

As part of a realignment of Toyota's North American manufacturing. Canada will get what Toyota calls "mid-size, higher-value models." The factory already builds the Lexus RX in addition to the Corolla. It was first to build a Lexus-brand vehicle outside Japan, and worrying about whether North America could match Japan quality gave Toyota's Japan brass heartburn.

It has proved a non-issue, however, and Toyota recently shifted production of its Lexus ES sedan to Kentucky.

Lentz explains the new manufacturing approach: "The northern tier" that Toyota says consists of Canada, Indiana, Kentucky and central U.S. locations will build what the automaker calls its "higher-value models," such as the RX, the Sequoia and Highlander SUVs, the Sienna van, Avalon and Camry sedans.

The southwest — Texas and Baja in Mexico — make Tundra and Tacoma pickups.

And the south — the new Mexico factory and Mississippi — will build Corolla and what Toyota presumably will avoid calling "lower value" models.

Grouping types of vehicles geographically can be more efficient in many ways. Parts suppliers can locate near the groups so components common to all the models needn't be shipped as far. Executives and managers can travel among the factories building related models quicker and more easily.

"We've been in his three-year period where we evaluated global demand and capitalization, and this Mexico plant is the first to be built after the three-year hiatus," Lentz says.

Combining the new factory, the new TNGA approach and the geographic alignment of similar models is, he says, is "a big deal."

MattyG

And wait until the TPP gets passed. You'll see even more globalization because on the consumer side, people want inexpensive but not necessarily cheap. Canadians are not a special case anymore because NAFTA made sure that production could be shifted to Mexico or back to the US depending on exchange rates and shifting demand.

The real outrage isn't a Chinese made Buick but rather, what is GM doing with all that nice fat profit margin from a car like the Envision. Are GM, and for that matter Volvo passing on the savings to you, consumer when they pay an average Chinese car factory worker the wages that they are paying vs what an American, Canadian and even a Mexican worker makes? Yes cost of living is much lower in those countries but boy, what a nice arrangement.

National pride is one thing but look at the numbers and see what the profits are when you shift production to China on a product you are basically selling at the same price as if it was made in the USA or Canada.

mmarshall

I agree with much of what you say, but one reason the Environ is built in China is Buick's huge presence there, and the enormous popularity of the brand in that country. China, with 1.5 billion people, is also (arguably) the world's fastest-growing and potentially largest auto market.

As far as the TPP goes in the U.S., much depends on the election, who wins the Presidency, and the makeup of the next Congress. Trump is strongly opposed to the TPP.....Hillary's position seems to be unclear (not that that matters, since many people don't believe her anyway). Trump also wants a 35% tariff on goods produced overseas by American manufacturers.....just think of what that would do to all the cheap stuff we import from China every day, not to mention a 60K (in American dollars) Envision

pbm317

Pricing is way too high on the Envision, you can't price the Buick alongside/above Audi's, Acura's, etc. That's why incentives and lease support are already sky high on a brand new vehicle. Buick needs to learn, like Cadillac, that their badges/brands simply don't support/warrant the MSRP's they're trying to project onto the market.

mmarshall

Caddy's base-level XT5, which is roughly the same size as an Environ, actually undercuts the Environ's base price by some 3-4K. ($38,995 vs. $42,070).

IMO, the Chinese public are the ones that have driven up Buick prices by their relentless love for the brand, and the demand it has brought for their products. Remember, the Communist economy in China, with its rigidly state-controlled pricing, went away years ago...the country, today, economic-wise, is "Communist" in name only, but without free elections. The huge increase in Chinese living standards has brought rapidly increasing demand for Western-style goods...especially Buicks. Having said that, though, I still think the Verano is an excellent bargain at 25K....probably more so than any other Buick....but it is being tossed from the American market so Buick can use the plant space to build more still-more SUVs here at home.

Toys4RJill

Has very little to do with National Pride for me. I am all for building a car where you sell it, but I also understand that at some point a car like a Corolla or Civic just cannot be made in the US or Canada because of costs.

But for an American company like GM who were bailed out and have the hardest time fighting the imports, to make a $42K Buick or a $80K CT6 in China and the send them to the USA is insulting and unacceptable.

Aron9000

^ I agree with Jill, it is an insult and a stab in the eye to places like Flint Michigan to make this car in China.

MattyG

Well, that's what we collectively have enabled and voted for over the last 30 years. Global capital doesn't sleep, it just keeps figuring out new ways to extract profits because corporations are "people" in a court of law with rights, but what they don't have to do is behave ethically or morally like good-minded people might be prone to doing in the humanist sense.

GM does what it does because it knows that making profit for the shareholders while mitigating risks of strikes or demands for higher wages can be circumvented with global platforms and global manufacturing. The Envision is an example of an American car company that wants to get close to its core market (this is what mmarshall is talking about), and at the same time leveraging profits from the American and Canadian consumer. Not surprising at all.

It's the reason Jill that at one time or the other, Canadians were flabbergasted that the very cars they assembled for the Detroit car brands were shipped across the border from Windsor and area and were actually cheaper to buy there vs a Canadian factory worker trying to buy his own car in Canada! That was a nice kick in the pants but it's reality. I doubt the Chinese workers who make the Envision will ever be able to afford the vehicle they toil over at the line.