What would you do in this situation (dealer question)
08-17-16, 04:16 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
What would you do in this situation (dealer question)
So my car has been at the lexus dealer since friday. I have had the car for a little over a month. Its a CPO 2011 LS460L. Almost every time I come to a stop I get a thump thump thump from the back rear. Brought it in about a week after having it, they tell me they resurfaced the rotors and all is good. I left the next day for a month to NJ and drove the car up there. That didn't fix the problem. So back into the shop it went when I got back on friday. I got a call saturday telling me that they were going to replace the rear rotors. Today I get a call from my service advisor telling me that they didn't have to replace the rear rotors, they did a nice fine resurface and evened out all the raised spots.
So here is my question: Having only had this car less than two months, and knowing the fact I reported the problem a week into ownership, should I be telling them to replace the rear rotors? I am concerned that by them resurfacing them twice already in the last month that next time I have any issue where its the rotors they are going to tell me I need rotors because there isn't enough meat left on them to resurface. What are your thoughts?
So here is my question: Having only had this car less than two months, and knowing the fact I reported the problem a week into ownership, should I be telling them to replace the rear rotors? I am concerned that by them resurfacing them twice already in the last month that next time I have any issue where its the rotors they are going to tell me I need rotors because there isn't enough meat left on them to resurface. What are your thoughts?
08-17-16, 04:27 PM
#2
Pole Position
Seems like your dealership is not very helpful and is not invested in taking care of a valued customer. Why are things taking so long? I assume you have a nice loaner while they fix your car, but still getting rear rotors turned shouldn't take 4 days. If resurfacing didn't fix the problem the first time, why would it be fixed the second time? It's time to get a second opinion. I hope there are other Lexus dealers in your area who would be happy to take better care of you, even if you end up having to pay for new rotors. They wouldn't be covered by the CPO warranty anyways, as a wear-tear item, even if you reported it 1 week after purchase. If they do it, it will be out of goodwill, but looks like this dealer is not very good with customer care.
08-17-16, 06:51 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes, my feeling is that I kind of want to call them tomorrow and explain that it didn't work the first time and now they are removing too much of the rotors and they should be replaced.
I am in SE florida, so Wilde is about 4 hours away but I have also heard good things about them. I actually looked at cars there before they seemed nice.
I am in SE florida, so Wilde is about 4 hours away but I have also heard good things about them. I actually looked at cars there before they seemed nice.
08-17-16, 08:01 PM
#6
Great service and good will are what separate the great Lexus dealerships from the average ones.
Resurfacing rotors is normal procedure to get rid of minor defects, often caused by excessive heat (ie: drivers that ride their brakes), but as you already know, you can only resurface so many times before they require replacement.
In my opinion, even though it took them 2 times to do it, If they solved the thump thump, and your car now drives like you would expect it to, you really aren't in a position to ask them for new rotors. It would be like getting a nail in a tire that only has half it's lifespan left and instead of being satisfied with a patch, insisting on a new tire.
If however, you aren't happy with the performance results of their repair, I would suggest a call to Lexus Corporate. They know what service is about. They definitely want you as a customer for life and will help you solve your issues. They'd probably split the bill with you for new rotors if that's what will make you happy.
Either way, I'd write a letter to corporate and the dealer service manager expressing your frustration with having to deal with this trouble after buying a CPO car in good faith.
Good luck to you.
Resurfacing rotors is normal procedure to get rid of minor defects, often caused by excessive heat (ie: drivers that ride their brakes), but as you already know, you can only resurface so many times before they require replacement.
In my opinion, even though it took them 2 times to do it, If they solved the thump thump, and your car now drives like you would expect it to, you really aren't in a position to ask them for new rotors. It would be like getting a nail in a tire that only has half it's lifespan left and instead of being satisfied with a patch, insisting on a new tire.
If however, you aren't happy with the performance results of their repair, I would suggest a call to Lexus Corporate. They know what service is about. They definitely want you as a customer for life and will help you solve your issues. They'd probably split the bill with you for new rotors if that's what will make you happy.
Either way, I'd write a letter to corporate and the dealer service manager expressing your frustration with having to deal with this trouble after buying a CPO car in good faith.
Good luck to you.
08-18-16, 06:44 AM
#7
Pole Position
Well I think part of the problem is it might not be the rotors at all...are you experiencing a pulsation in the brake pedal upon braking? Excessive lateral run out would cause that, or parallelism, and cutting the rotor should fix that problem temporarily until the parallelism comes back (and believe me it will). So I question if that's your problem to begin with. I personallly wouldn't recommend cutting a problem rotor anyway...removing metal=taking away the ability for the rotor to handle heat=more rotor problems. I've done it myself and yes, I've gotten a few months more out of it...then I've cut it again...got a couple more months, but I knew I was doing this just until I bought new ones (and I measured rotor thickness to make sure it was within specs).
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08-18-16, 11:16 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the fast replies. I can't really feel the issue in the brake pedal. Instead every time I am coming to a stop in the 5mph or less range I get a thump thump thump sound. Sound is equivalent to the bass sound a stereo makes. The head Lexus guy verified the sound and that its from right rear. They cut the rotors for second time so we will see if that solves it. However, this is the second time it's been in so if the problem comes back I will again insist they fix it for nothing because that means it was never fixed properly in the first place. It's not a AWD car so I know that eliminates a lot of possible issues...
08-18-16, 11:19 AM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
I should also add that occasionally along with the noise you can feel slight bumps like as that rear wheel is rotating it is bumping or catching on something causing it to make the thump noise. I know it's confusing, hard to really describe it will in words vs actually experiencing it. However it has been very easy to replicate for many Lexus employees. I will say that I am usually the one that has to replicate it because sometimes they can't get it to do it like I can. I apply brakes lightly they seem to stomp on them harder when coming to a compete stop which doesn't really produce the noise( which also leads me to believe less rotation since stopping faster, so maybe it is a rotor problem?)
08-19-16, 06:16 AM
#13
Pit Crew
My next conversation would be with the service manager.
Has he had the shop foreman/troubleshooter on this job, or a lower-level tech?
Do they turn the rotors on the car, which can also correct for runout in the axle flange, etc? Or off the car, which doesn't do that?
Have they considered rotating the tires to see if the noise moves to the front?
Have they inspected the axle CV joints?
Do they have a microphone that mounts under the car and transmits the noise to headphones worn by the tech? That can make it much easier to interpret and diagnose a noise.
If you don't get satisfactory results with that discussion, I would inform the manager I intend to elevate my problem to Lexus corporate. This may cause him to take a more active interest in your problem. You could try this again with the dealer General Manager. I did this once with exceptional results, though I had a lot more than one complaint about my CPO 2002 Olds Aurora. If not, proceed with the elevation.
There is a microphone system that transmits the sound to a computer that analyzes it and makes a very impressive diagnosis, and it may be available only to a regional troubleshooter who travels to dealers having a problem they can't fix.
Whichever way you go, I would ask for new rotors at this point. If the rotors were the problem, obviously turning them isn't the fix. And if they weren't the problem, the dealer has machined a lot of life off parts that will eventually cost you several hundred dollars to replace when they wear out prematurely and out of warranty.
As always, be calm, organized, respectful and reasonable, Have the corporate phone number and if possible the name and direct phone numbers/emails of the corporate VP of service, VP of used cars/CPO, VP of customer satisfaction, VP of sales, etc handy. These were likely key factors, along with a copy of the letter I planned to send to these people, in my successful Oldsmobile situation. My letter praised the efforts of the dealer, and requested corporate to assist them in going above and beyond normal procedures and rules to resolve my seemingly insurmountable issues. With that letter in the hands of the dealer General Manager, my problems suddenly became surmountable and I never had to send the letter.
If an internet search doesn't turn up the corporate names and direct contact info you need, I know there are Lexus dealer employees on this forum who you might ask for this info.
Good luck
Kevin
Has he had the shop foreman/troubleshooter on this job, or a lower-level tech?
Do they turn the rotors on the car, which can also correct for runout in the axle flange, etc? Or off the car, which doesn't do that?
Have they considered rotating the tires to see if the noise moves to the front?
Have they inspected the axle CV joints?
Do they have a microphone that mounts under the car and transmits the noise to headphones worn by the tech? That can make it much easier to interpret and diagnose a noise.
If you don't get satisfactory results with that discussion, I would inform the manager I intend to elevate my problem to Lexus corporate. This may cause him to take a more active interest in your problem. You could try this again with the dealer General Manager. I did this once with exceptional results, though I had a lot more than one complaint about my CPO 2002 Olds Aurora. If not, proceed with the elevation.
There is a microphone system that transmits the sound to a computer that analyzes it and makes a very impressive diagnosis, and it may be available only to a regional troubleshooter who travels to dealers having a problem they can't fix.
Whichever way you go, I would ask for new rotors at this point. If the rotors were the problem, obviously turning them isn't the fix. And if they weren't the problem, the dealer has machined a lot of life off parts that will eventually cost you several hundred dollars to replace when they wear out prematurely and out of warranty.
As always, be calm, organized, respectful and reasonable, Have the corporate phone number and if possible the name and direct phone numbers/emails of the corporate VP of service, VP of used cars/CPO, VP of customer satisfaction, VP of sales, etc handy. These were likely key factors, along with a copy of the letter I planned to send to these people, in my successful Oldsmobile situation. My letter praised the efforts of the dealer, and requested corporate to assist them in going above and beyond normal procedures and rules to resolve my seemingly insurmountable issues. With that letter in the hands of the dealer General Manager, my problems suddenly became surmountable and I never had to send the letter.
If an internet search doesn't turn up the corporate names and direct contact info you need, I know there are Lexus dealer employees on this forum who you might ask for this info.
Good luck
Kevin
08-19-16, 01:46 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
So I spoke to my service advisor who I have been using for over 8 years. He was disappointed they didn't fix it but assured me that I spent a lot of money on the car and agrees that he wants it 100% perfect. I am bringing it back in again next week.
Also, when I brought it in last friday they had someone who sits at a desk who reviews noises and issue with cars come with me and I showed him the noise. He verified it right away and said sounds like coming from right rear. The head technician called me Saturday to confirm my issue and said they would be replacing the rotors. Once they called me to tell me car was ready and go over what they did, they then told me they did a fine machine on the rotors they didn't need to be replaced...
I thank everyone for taking the time to write the post. Since I have a great relationship with my service advisor I think I should go around him yet and contact corporate. What are your thoughts? SHould I give them one last shot at fixing it before I go to corporate?
Kind of sucks making a car payment and the car being in the shop for a week plus however long they have it next week.
Also, when I brought it in last friday they had someone who sits at a desk who reviews noises and issue with cars come with me and I showed him the noise. He verified it right away and said sounds like coming from right rear. The head technician called me Saturday to confirm my issue and said they would be replacing the rotors. Once they called me to tell me car was ready and go over what they did, they then told me they did a fine machine on the rotors they didn't need to be replaced...
I thank everyone for taking the time to write the post. Since I have a great relationship with my service advisor I think I should go around him yet and contact corporate. What are your thoughts? SHould I give them one last shot at fixing it before I go to corporate?
Kind of sucks making a car payment and the car being in the shop for a week plus however long they have it next week.