ericsan13

If anyone is following the post on the RX350 forum regarding fuel costs, here is an interesting comparison on whether the hybrid is worth it based on the MSRP price difference.

I took my 450h F sport as an example and priced it against a 350 F Sport. It would be great if someone could verify the 350 F Sport numbers.



Based on this and a projected savings of $29.02 savings per 1000 miles, the hybrid will pay for itself in 92k miles. This does not include the costs savings from replacing brakes/starter/alternator. Also note that Intuitive Park Assist is standard on the 450h.

Again would be great if someone could fact check the 350 and I will update as needed.

FLYCT

nice spread sheet

If you trade in the cars after 3 years I would bet the 450h would be worth $2k-$3k more, offsetting the initial cost.

FLYCT

I just did a Kelly Blue Book estimate of Trade-In value of a 2013 RX350 and a RX450h with similar equipment, i.e. Navigation, Premium package, blind spot monitor, moon roof etc.

KBB Trade in prices for a 2013 with 36,000 miles in Good Condition are below..

RX350 $26,707 - $28,669
RX450h $30,071 - $32,311

So the RX450h has a $3,364 - $3,642 trade in value advantage after 3 years and 36,000 miles.

Of course this doesn't take into consideration the additional finance carrying charges over 3 years.

mikli

This is a good comparison chart. The 450h does include more standard features. Can't wait to pick up ours this weekend!

lexer1000

I saw the new builder for 2020 RX 350 F Sport And 450h F sport. The price difference is around 1200 dollars. The gas efficiency is 23 vs. 30 mpg. I wonder which will save me more money, if say I keep the car for 5 years?

Performance wise, I read from the reviews that 450h accelerates tad slower too.

mspearl95

theres a thread somewhere about people calculating the differences.

xxx350L

One significant difference between the two cars is the transmission; the 450h has a bulletproof CVT, and the 350 has the 8 speed...total junk. Do yourself a favor and go for the 450h. The initial off the line acceleration is quicker in the 450h.

460hl

What makes you say the CVT is bulletproof, just wondering. I hope it lasts long.

Also OP, you have to consider that the 450hl requires premium whereas the 350 uses regular so the cost around here is is about 60 cents more per gallon vs regular. With that being said, I would still get the 450 knowing that I have the top of the line is a great feeling.

wa3cuj

I've owned 3 450h's and have never had to put new brakes on any of them. I generally trade before I get to 60k miles. Never had a gasoline vehicle that went that long without brakes.

pshyong

Do you guys hear the electric motor whine? I test drove a used 450h F Sport (my god was it hard to find) and I could hear the electric motor whine. I also felt the car shaking from the back of my seat but that could've just been the road. It was a very short test drive in the city so I can't quite say that I'd prefer it over the 350, and it's near impossible to find a 450h to test drive in the Toronto area.

My dealer estimates late Oct or early Nov delivery. Is it worth the wait? Didn't ask about 350 ETA but probably not that early either.

xxx350L

Here’s why: fewer moving parts. Engineering Explained has a great video with a cut away of an actual Lexus CVT trans. Interesting...I’ll post a link for your viewing pleasure. The ONLY good 8 speed out there is the BMW ZF transmission. The drive by wire tune that Lexus has installed with the 8 spd sacrifices drivability for CAFE standards. It’s pathetic. Here’s that link:

pshyong

Doesn't RX 450h use ECVT? The video is very interesting but it's talking about DCVT, used in UX and Corolla apparently.

I hate the CVT in my 2012 Subaru Impreza (LOUD whine, lags) so I'm very hesitant on another CVT, even if it's by Lexus. Though I did drive a 450h yesterday and it was quite smooth, but I could still hear some whining noise from either the electric motor or the CVT.

460hl

Even with the cvt in my RX450hl I notice the engine or transmission noise. It is also felt through slight vibrations through the floor. Rather annoying, makes me miss my 2019 Acura Mdx.

riredale

I drive a 2010 RX450h, very similar drivetrain to current model.

The "transmission" is a "CVT" only in the functional sense. There are no belts or cone-shaped pulleys like in a regular CVT. Instead, it's just a planetary gearset very similar to the one in a rear-drive differential. Two input shafts and one output. One input shaft goes to an ICE, the other goes to an electric motor. The output goes to the drive wheels. The computer looks at the gas pedal and computes that, say, the ICE has to come on and run at 2100rpm in order to deliver the desired power; the computer then commands the electric motor in the forward or reverse spin in such a way that allows the ICE to run at 2100rpm. Totally transparent to the user, and instantaneous. Brilliant design. No upshifts or jerky downshifts as with a conventional transmission, and nothing wears out over time, since planetary gears don't fail. There are Youtube videos that show this in operation, and other videos that show the various parts on a workbench. Search for "Prius CVT."

The computer can start the ICE instantly since the starter motor is built-in with no engagement mechanism and the electronics can deliver 600v to it. Startup takes about 1/4 second.

By the way, there is a "whine" sound coming from the front and rear electric motors on braking, probably from the regeneration of electricity back into the 300v traction battery. It's not loud and I actually like the sound, kind of like a turbine on a 787 quietly spinning down.

The net result is that my 5,000lb car gets about 29mpg in city driving and high 20's on the freeway. The ICE runs when power is needed but under coasting or stopping the engine is shut off and motors take over. This makes sense because an ICE with the throttle closed has a very high manifold vacuum, which means the engine is essentially a vacuum pump and a vacuum pump takes a lot of energy to spin. The computer starts and stops the ICE hundreds of times as required even on short trips around town.

One final thought: Car runs perfectly fine on regular. Every engine made in the last few decades will automatically adjust for the octane of the fuel. All you will lose are a few peak HP and a very slight reduction in mpg. Lots of threads about this on the Car Talk forum.

golferjack

I never understand the need to calculate the payback when buying a hybrid. To me the hybrid feature is no any different than any other feature on the car. If feature payback was really that important, then why would anyone ever buy more than a minimum equipped Kia or Chev? Is anyone lately doing a cost benefit analysis on a radio, leather seats or more importantly a Lexus vs Kia?

There are so many benefits of the hybrid feature, which have been posted on this and the Rav site that people should be beyond that sort of analysis. People always go to the CVT without taking the time to understand that it should never have been named CVT, because it always get compared to other manufactures CVT that are an issue. The CVT is maintenance free, does not jerk, does not need software updates and is always smooth with never a hesitation. It works perfectly on long downhill braking or uphill power needs. Here is a link to a Rav site where someone has 274,000 miles on a 2017 Rav. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/20.../#post-2714597....

There are other postings out there on the Rav forums indicating the fact that Toyota hybrids are bulletproof. By the way, the Rav and Lexus, and for all I know, all the Toyotas have the same CVT.

As for premium gas, go ahead and use it. It won’t do anything special and is not needed. I had a Cadillac with the Northstar engine that “required” premium, and I drove that car 250,000 miles and only used the cheapest gas I could find.

The best advice is to do an analysis of the lack of maintenance required on hybrids. The MPG analysis is nice, but just nickels and dimes.