Wind Noise - Part 3 --- Pics for DIY fix
01-20-07, 04:52 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Wind Noise - Part 3 --- Pics for DIY fix
It's taken me a while to get this together. Many thanks to ES350Bob for taking the time to pull his window rubbers down to verify what I'm seeing on my vehicle. I hope this helps some of you here, and maybe gives a better understanding to others who read about the issue.
1. Understanding the Wind Noise issue.To give everyone a better idea of where the wind noise seems to come from, the picture below has three colored zones.
GREEN = 'A' Pillar high speed wind noise. Sound seems to come from within the green zone in the pillar itself at speeds above 50mph\90kmh. Known fix = install missing PDI and chassis plugs under vehicle.
RED = Low speed wind noise. Starts around 30mph\50kmh. The twin red lines represent the area where the loudest sound was coming from. The single red line outlines other areas that also seemed to be producing wind noise. Shims installed by dealer target this area.
BLUE = Possible other areas of wind noise. Originally I had no wind noise here, but after having the shims installed I started to get a small amount of wind noise from this location.
2. Lexus Dealer installed Shims to solve the RED issue.
Lowering both driver\passenger windows and pulling the window rubbers out allowed me to take these pics. Ordinarily there would just be a silver painted door frame behind the rubber, but my Lexus dealer has installed what we've called "shims" here. This is actually just black felt material glued to the window frame itself.
It looks kind of a hacked up job in places, but it gets the job done.
This glued on felt material goes all the way down.
The Passenger side is similar to the drivers side, except they kind of messed this one up a little.
You'll notice that the felt material corresponds with the red line in the first photo in this post.
After receiving my car back from the dealer with the felt 'shim' fix installed, this reduced my wind noise by 80%. I did find the noise now acceptable from the front of the window (red area), but the BLUE area now became an issue, particularly from the rear top are of the front windows.
CONTINUED Below.....
1. Understanding the Wind Noise issue.To give everyone a better idea of where the wind noise seems to come from, the picture below has three colored zones.
GREEN = 'A' Pillar high speed wind noise. Sound seems to come from within the green zone in the pillar itself at speeds above 50mph\90kmh. Known fix = install missing PDI and chassis plugs under vehicle.
RED = Low speed wind noise. Starts around 30mph\50kmh. The twin red lines represent the area where the loudest sound was coming from. The single red line outlines other areas that also seemed to be producing wind noise. Shims installed by dealer target this area.
BLUE = Possible other areas of wind noise. Originally I had no wind noise here, but after having the shims installed I started to get a small amount of wind noise from this location.
2. Lexus Dealer installed Shims to solve the RED issue.
Lowering both driver\passenger windows and pulling the window rubbers out allowed me to take these pics. Ordinarily there would just be a silver painted door frame behind the rubber, but my Lexus dealer has installed what we've called "shims" here. This is actually just black felt material glued to the window frame itself.
It looks kind of a hacked up job in places, but it gets the job done.
This glued on felt material goes all the way down.
The Passenger side is similar to the drivers side, except they kind of messed this one up a little.
You'll notice that the felt material corresponds with the red line in the first photo in this post.
After receiving my car back from the dealer with the felt 'shim' fix installed, this reduced my wind noise by 80%. I did find the noise now acceptable from the front of the window (red area), but the BLUE area now became an issue, particularly from the rear top are of the front windows.
CONTINUED Below.....
01-20-07, 04:53 PM
#2
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
3. Examining the window rubber itself.
Pulling down the window rubber and reinstalling it are very simple. Once you have it pulled down this is what it looks like. For the DIY fix we're going to insert some material into the inside gap that exists in the window rubber. You can see my second finger is holding this open.
You can see here where this 'inside' rubber gap is - it looks like it's almost an inch tall.
Inserting some material into this rubber gap does exactly the same thing as the glued on felt window shims. When I re-insert the window rubber back into the window frame, I found that the dealer installed felt pushes on the exact same place as this rubber gap.
4. Installing the DIY fix.
The first step is to work out exactly where your wind noise is coming from. Once you work that out, you'll want to try the following process to see if this can reduce that wind noise. This process is also 100% removable.
The felt material can be purchase from any craft store. I happen to have a Michaels store close to me, so that's where I purchased the black felt from. It comes in 10X10" sheets and costs about $2. There were 3 thicknesses of felt - I purchased the thinnest one.
First cut the felt material into relatively thin strips that will fit entirely into the rubber gap.
Another shot showing the strips. I've lined them up with the area I want to install them.
Start inserting the felt material into the gap in the rubber.
Keep pushing it in. Make sure it is just in there as a strip - not bunched up on itself.
Here it is fully inserted. I made the strips a little too tall in this instance for demonstration purposes. I'd normally cut that back a little so that it wasn't visible, but its your choice what you do.
Zoomed out view with both strips fully inserted. We're ready to re-insert the window rubber now.
Window rubber fully re-inserted. Notice there is no bump or anything that even indicates that you've inserted felt into that rubber gap.
5. Testing the DIY Fix.Put the windows back up. Put the windows down again and make sure that your rubbers are nicely installed. Make sure it all looks good before you head out on to the highway. Put the windows back up and head out for a high speed test drive.
You may find that this has made things better in one area, but now worse in another. It may take a few attempts to get things into balance where the windows seal out that wind noise. Once you get there though things will be a lot quieter!
6. Do's and Dont's
Some notes that may help you
Do's:
- Listen to where the noise is coming from.
- Note down where it sounds louder, and where it isn't so loud but its still apparent.
- Note down the speed where it is the loudest, and when it first appears.
- Move your head around the window area while driving carefully to verify the source location of the sound
- Tackle the main source of the sound first.
Dont's:
- Don't overpack the felt material in the rubber gap. We're trying to just put gentle pressure - even just a tiny bit - to force it to seal.
- Don't put the felt in the part of the door that runs up\down next to the B pillar. I did try this - and it sealed the door well - but just loosened up the seal in the red zone at the front of the window.
Well, that's it. I hope this helps some of you suffering with this issue. Why is this even a problem? I'm sure we can all debate that here in the forum!
Pulling down the window rubber and reinstalling it are very simple. Once you have it pulled down this is what it looks like. For the DIY fix we're going to insert some material into the inside gap that exists in the window rubber. You can see my second finger is holding this open.
You can see here where this 'inside' rubber gap is - it looks like it's almost an inch tall.
Inserting some material into this rubber gap does exactly the same thing as the glued on felt window shims. When I re-insert the window rubber back into the window frame, I found that the dealer installed felt pushes on the exact same place as this rubber gap.
4. Installing the DIY fix.
The first step is to work out exactly where your wind noise is coming from. Once you work that out, you'll want to try the following process to see if this can reduce that wind noise. This process is also 100% removable.
The felt material can be purchase from any craft store. I happen to have a Michaels store close to me, so that's where I purchased the black felt from. It comes in 10X10" sheets and costs about $2. There were 3 thicknesses of felt - I purchased the thinnest one.
First cut the felt material into relatively thin strips that will fit entirely into the rubber gap.
Another shot showing the strips. I've lined them up with the area I want to install them.
Start inserting the felt material into the gap in the rubber.
Keep pushing it in. Make sure it is just in there as a strip - not bunched up on itself.
Here it is fully inserted. I made the strips a little too tall in this instance for demonstration purposes. I'd normally cut that back a little so that it wasn't visible, but its your choice what you do.
Zoomed out view with both strips fully inserted. We're ready to re-insert the window rubber now.
Window rubber fully re-inserted. Notice there is no bump or anything that even indicates that you've inserted felt into that rubber gap.
5. Testing the DIY Fix.Put the windows back up. Put the windows down again and make sure that your rubbers are nicely installed. Make sure it all looks good before you head out on to the highway. Put the windows back up and head out for a high speed test drive.
You may find that this has made things better in one area, but now worse in another. It may take a few attempts to get things into balance where the windows seal out that wind noise. Once you get there though things will be a lot quieter!
6. Do's and Dont's
Some notes that may help you
Do's:
- Listen to where the noise is coming from.
- Note down where it sounds louder, and where it isn't so loud but its still apparent.
- Note down the speed where it is the loudest, and when it first appears.
- Move your head around the window area while driving carefully to verify the source location of the sound
- Tackle the main source of the sound first.
Dont's:
- Don't overpack the felt material in the rubber gap. We're trying to just put gentle pressure - even just a tiny bit - to force it to seal.
- Don't put the felt in the part of the door that runs up\down next to the B pillar. I did try this - and it sealed the door well - but just loosened up the seal in the red zone at the front of the window.
Well, that's it. I hope this helps some of you suffering with this issue. Why is this even a problem? I'm sure we can all debate that here in the forum!
Last edited by wanderer99; 01-20-07 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Added second part of DIY fix.
01-20-07, 05:34 PM
#3
Driver
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ny
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thats a awesome right up, my only concern with that felt is it holding water, I could see it holding moisture and possibly causing rust in the future especially close to the pinch welds.
if it was some sort of closed cell foam or other rubber like material it would be better.
if it was some sort of closed cell foam or other rubber like material it would be better.
01-20-07, 05:50 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
Those are amazing pics!!!!
Especially the inclusion of color for area designation.
The --Blue--- area is my main area and was as well on former ES350 including slightly further back to curve of window glass.
And you are right about the channel that allows insertion of material, felt as you chose or the washable black/grey foam material used to replace window AC unit filters fits nicely in there. I have also even used old door/window weather tripping so far in tests but the AC filter foam is far easier than the weatherstripping material to work with and to cut.
Amazing job on the sequential DIY pics. For those trying this, it can be a slight pain to reseat them when out as far as shown in order to do this so don't get discouraged as it does knock it back.
Especially the inclusion of color for area designation.
The --Blue--- area is my main area and was as well on former ES350 including slightly further back to curve of window glass.
And you are right about the channel that allows insertion of material, felt as you chose or the washable black/grey foam material used to replace window AC unit filters fits nicely in there. I have also even used old door/window weather tripping so far in tests but the AC filter foam is far easier than the weatherstripping material to work with and to cut.
Amazing job on the sequential DIY pics. For those trying this, it can be a slight pain to reseat them when out as far as shown in order to do this so don't get discouraged as it does knock it back.
01-21-07, 01:00 PM
#7
Big cudos Wanderer! I inserted a very thin rubber gasket material that I already had available inside the gap that exists in the window rubber. I did the driver's side first from the leading point of the window frame to top rear corner and could tell it worked pretty well because I became aware of wind noise from the passenger side on the test drive. I did the passenger side and the overall results are pretty good. I think it reduced my wind noise by about 70% without creating any new noises. My gasket material is thicker than the felt but it is very soft and compresses nicely. It's rated down to -24 degrees F, so it should stay flexible. I'll see how it holds up over the next few months. Thanks for doing Lexus' R&D.
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01-21-07, 02:13 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
Big cudos Wanderer! I inserted a very thin rubber gasket material that I already had available inside the gap that exists in the window rubber. I did the driver's side first from the leading point of the window frame to top rear corner and could tell it worked pretty well because I became aware of wind noise from the passenger side on the test drive. I did the passenger side and the overall results are pretty good. I think it reduced my wind noise by about 70% without creating any new noises. My gasket material is thicker than the felt but it is very soft and compresses nicely. It's rated down to -24 degrees F, so it should stay flexible. I'll see how it holds up over the next few months. Thanks for doing Lexus' R&D.Bill,
I think Wanderer would agree, we have to acknowledge and give credit to e-man for the tip of missing PDI underside rubber plugs.
And your contribution above as well as I live in a warm climate and never thought about material needing to be cold temp. rated for those who do not where you did think of it to mention.
01-21-07, 02:36 PM
#10
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Big cudos Wanderer! I inserted a very thin rubber gasket material that I already had available inside the gap that exists in the window rubber. I did the driver's side first from the leading point of the window frame to top rear corner and could tell it worked pretty well because I became aware of wind noise from the passenger side on the test drive. I did the passenger side and the overall results are pretty good. I think it reduced my wind noise by about 70% without creating any new noises. My gasket material is thicker than the felt but it is very soft and compresses nicely. It's rated down to -24 degrees F, so it should stay flexible. I'll see how it holds up over the next few months. Thanks for doing Lexus' R&D.On Lexus R&D - I have no idea why there is no TSIB on this yet. It's pretty clear after 8 months of these wind noise reports that this just isn't an issue for them
01-21-07, 02:39 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks e-man
01-21-07, 03:00 PM
#12
Lexus Champion
Yes and now that I have given him his due formally above, I can now say you have to be capable of thinking in low to the ground movements and solutions as our ancestors were to come up with solutions like that and the brick on the garage floor.
Bravo e-man!!!!
01-21-07, 05:38 PM
#14
Power of the network! People geographically seperated sharing information and collaborating to work an issue.
01-21-07, 07:40 PM
#15
Pole Position
In the immortal words of Ralph Kramden, "I am humble." My pleasure. Like I said before, when I first joined CL, the GS guys gave me a warm welcome and helped me out with all of my annoying little problems (rattles, wind noise, etc.). I'm just returning the favor. And to Bob, Wanderer and others, I'm sure you guys will do the same to the next guy to come along.
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