LS460L: Detailed First Impressions! (LONG)
10-21-06, 10:42 PM
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LS460L: Detailed First Impressions! (LONG)
Link to all of my impressions in one post:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=244805
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OK, just got back from driving our new baby 150 miles or so; thought I'd fill in the post with my driving impressions.
I had been very impressed by the styling, interior design and materials, and the overall quality of the new LS. However, I've always been disappointed with the driving dynamics of the Lexus Big Sedan; the last LS430 I drove (in late 2004) just didn't do it for me. It had the Sport package (not sure of the exact option name), which offered larger wheels and tires along with stiffer damping. This car just felt rough and unfinished, as though Lexus slapped on bigger wheels & tires and stiffened the springs without changing anything else on the car. We purchased our VW Phaeton shortly after driving the Lexus.
I fully expected we might be disappointed by some of the driving characteristics of the new LS.
I am certainly not unbiased, having just spent money on what the happy Lexus salesman described as "the most expensive vehicle our dealership has ever sold". However, I will attempt to honestly appraise the differences between the two cars.
Before taking delivery I drove the LS extensively -- about 20 miles -- to be 100% certain that everything was perfect. Afterwards, my wife got into the LS460L and drove away as I followed her home in the Phaeton.
The difference between the two cars was, quite honestly, night and day. I've always thought the Phaeton to be an amazingly capable car, but there are very few areas where anyone might consider the Phaeton superior. Other than having more personal preference settings (it's Adaptive Volume Control can be adjusted to your exact liking, for example) the only areas where I honestly believe the Phaeton outdoes the Lexus are:
1. The Phaeton is bigger...
2. The Phaeton has more "road-hugging weight"...
3. The Phaeton cabin feels significantly wider, with commensurately greater shoulder room...
4. The Phaeton trunk is larger and more usable (our LS460L has the Tiny Trunk option)...
5. A few of the Phaeton's interior pieces have a higher quality feel to them; the Lexus Link control panel (in the ceiling) and the sun visors feel as though they came from an IS...
Here are the areas where the LS460L is superior (IMHO) to the Phaeton:
1. I never thought I'd see a paint finish that matched the quality of the one on the Phaeton. Now, I haven't yet had the chance to see how durable the paint on the Lexus is -- how thick it is and how well it resists chipping -- but the smoothness and depth of the finish is the best I've ever seen on a mass-production vehicle. The car looks as though it's been extensively color-sanded; those Lexus robots are polishing to perfection.
2. The accomodations in the Lexus are clearly superior. Though a few of the bits in the Phaeton are better designed or higher in apparent quality, the overall feel inside the Lexus is clearly a cut above the competition.
3. The design of the Lexus interior is an improvement over the VW. Though it has far more tech goodies than the Phaeton, all these gadgets are incorporated into a very simple, straightforward user interface. Sure, the car has a high button count, but the organization of buttons into subgroups makes everything fairly intuitive; what's not immediately obvious is quickly figured out. The overall feel is clean yet tastefully opulent. It feels more like a well-executed BizJet interior than anything else.
4. The tech on the Lexus is more advanced -- and it works better -- than that of the Phaeton; though it may not be fair to compare a 2004 model to a 2007, the LS460L has the following advantages:
a. A HDD/GPS system that works brilliantly; it may only be two generations removed from the Phaeton's CD-based system (CD>DVD>HDD), but the Lexus system feels -- from a functional standpoint -- like using a light-saber after wielding a broadsword.
b. The Mark Levinson sound system is one of the best systems I've ever heard in a car, and I've heard aftermarket car systems where the stereo work alone cost over $50K. The radio tuners on both AM and FM are spectacularly good; we live in a multipath-prone area and the Lexus radio almost never suffers from the distortion we hear on every other auto radio in our garage (Phaeton and E55, both with the optional sound systems). The overall frequency balance is very well-tuned; the system never sounds overly bright or edgy. The highs are smooth and extended, while the lows are deep, extended, and clear. The best trick this system pulls off, however, is very good stereo imaging from each of the four primary positions in the car. The Phaeton, with DSP set for the driver's position, has uncanny imaging for the driver but compromised sound for everyone else. The Lexus provides a better experience for everyone in the car. However, I do NOT like what happens with the Surround option engaged. It changes the frequency response in what, for me, is an unpleasant way; this makes the benefit in perceived image width not worth the tradeoffs in brightness and harshness. The ability to load CDs directly onto the HDD is, quite simply, brilliantly executed. However, I'd like more options -- ala iTunes -- to set the ripping to a higher quality setting. The only options are 128kbps and 256kbps; at the highest quality setting the differences between the CD and the HDD/MP3 copy are audible. If the car had a poorer audio system this would probably not be noticeable, but the resolution and quality of the audio system are ruthless -- it will clearly show you all the flaws of whatever you feed it. Lossless encoding would be a nice touch...
c. The Lexus doors and trunk are remarkable; they require very little pressure to close, and -- if you undershoot -- the automatic closing feature is awfully nice. The electrically operated trunk is wonderful; though the Phaeton offered this as an option our car lacks this feature; I had to remove one of the two gas struts to make it to where my wife -- who's quite strong -- could close the lid in a reasonable fashion.
5. The build quality on the Lexus is simply astonishing. I love German cars, but this car is going to give BMW and Mercedes engineers nightmares. The shut lines on the doors, hood, and trunk are have the smallest gaps I've ever seen on a car, and they are uniformly perfect from beginning to end. The chrome trim on the side windows is a single metal casting -- unreal! The details on the car -- like the center armrest/console cover, which closes through an elaborate arc at the slightest touch -- make you giggle at first as you realize that every detail on the car is designed with the user's tactile experience in mind.
6. The vehicle dynamics of the LS460L are superior to those of the Phaeton. This was QUITE the shocker; after driving the LS for 20-30 minutes -- then hopping into the Phaeton for the drive home -- I was extremely surprised by how crude the VW felt after driving the Lexus. I'm going to get torched if any of my Phaeton brethren are reading this, but I'm trying to be as objective as possible here. Though the Phaeton has an amazing "cruise missle" feel, the Lexus feels smoother-riding, more nimble, more solidly constructed, better handling, and far quicker in acceleration than the P-car. I don't know why some testers have declared the car to be slower than Lexus' published figures; the car feels very quick to me. There's also just the right touch of engine noise in the cabin -- a new experience for LS drivers. BTW, I am used to the acceleration of my 2005 Mercedes E55 -- a rocketship by anyone's standard -- so I think I have some valid reference points for "quick".
7. The transmission on the Lexus is a remarkable achievement. Like some of the other features on the car, I initially thought this would fit into the category of overkill. But the engineering and execution of this unit consistently impresses. It's shifts are smooth yet quick and efficient, and the gearing advantage of eight ratios is apparent when flooring the throttle when entering the freeway or pulling out onto a busy secondary road with rapidly approaching traffic.
8. The handling of the car is quite good. If I were in charge of suspension design at Lexus, I would have changed the settings on the 3-position switch for Comfort/Normal/Sport. I would have replaced Comfort with Normal, Normal with Sport, and Sport with Sportier. So far we keep the car in Sport/Power modes almost exclusively. These settngs are close to ideal, but I would like to be able to go one-click sportier at times.
I'm getting tired so I need to wrap this up. Are there flaws on the car? Absolutely. The Voice Recognition controls require some study and education to learn properly. The jury is still out on how well they ultimately funcion (once the operator is up to speed). The Automatic Parking feature is absolutely not intuitive to use. During our test drive -- with our knowledgable salesman in the car -- we could never figure out how to get it to back the car into a space. After 4-5 attempts we gave up; I'll have to learn how to use this but I don't think it's something we'll use with any regularity. I'd also like to be able to customize some of the functions to my liking just a little more; it would be nice, for example, to be able to customize the Adaptive Volume threshold to my exact preferences. I'd also like it if -- when I opened the hood -- there was something to see besides plastic covers that make the underhood experience appear to be something produced by Cuisinart. I'd also like a bigger trunk, but I also like the icebox feature and the air purifer. Like most Americans, I merely want it all!
I also have high marks for the Lexus dealership experience. However, one problem I have is how some dealers are handling their advertising. Specifically, they typically send you off with plastic license plates advertising the dealership, PLUS cheap metal frames with the dealer name stamped above and below the plate. The cheap metal license frame rubbed through the clear coat on the back of the car. Though this may not seem significant, I would expect this area to be better designed (look at a Mercedes) to prevent this from happening. Also, I can NOT believe that there should be ANY reason to drill the front bumper of the car to install the license plate mount! There are already two holes -- from the factory -- that look as though they match up EXACTLY with the holes on a US license plate. Appparently -- and this is my read and IMHO only -- it would be more work for either the dealer's or the ports PDI staff to hold a blind nut in place while working the bold through the plate and the plate holder. Instead, they drilled two holes into the bumper of our car, and these holes have that "pulled through" look with flared edges that can't easily be repaired. So, although I've never run a front plate for the 20 years I've been a Californian, I have no choice on this car unless I want to take it to a paint shop for an expensive repair. Lexus really dropped the ball on this one; this might be OK on a $20K vehicle, but it's completely unacceptable on an $84K luxury car.
There you have it -- my rants and (mostly) raves...
Photos at: http://web.mac.com/raythompson/iWeb/Site/Lexus.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=244805
--------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, just got back from driving our new baby 150 miles or so; thought I'd fill in the post with my driving impressions.
I had been very impressed by the styling, interior design and materials, and the overall quality of the new LS. However, I've always been disappointed with the driving dynamics of the Lexus Big Sedan; the last LS430 I drove (in late 2004) just didn't do it for me. It had the Sport package (not sure of the exact option name), which offered larger wheels and tires along with stiffer damping. This car just felt rough and unfinished, as though Lexus slapped on bigger wheels & tires and stiffened the springs without changing anything else on the car. We purchased our VW Phaeton shortly after driving the Lexus.
I fully expected we might be disappointed by some of the driving characteristics of the new LS.
I am certainly not unbiased, having just spent money on what the happy Lexus salesman described as "the most expensive vehicle our dealership has ever sold". However, I will attempt to honestly appraise the differences between the two cars.
Before taking delivery I drove the LS extensively -- about 20 miles -- to be 100% certain that everything was perfect. Afterwards, my wife got into the LS460L and drove away as I followed her home in the Phaeton.
The difference between the two cars was, quite honestly, night and day. I've always thought the Phaeton to be an amazingly capable car, but there are very few areas where anyone might consider the Phaeton superior. Other than having more personal preference settings (it's Adaptive Volume Control can be adjusted to your exact liking, for example) the only areas where I honestly believe the Phaeton outdoes the Lexus are:
1. The Phaeton is bigger...
2. The Phaeton has more "road-hugging weight"...
3. The Phaeton cabin feels significantly wider, with commensurately greater shoulder room...
4. The Phaeton trunk is larger and more usable (our LS460L has the Tiny Trunk option)...
5. A few of the Phaeton's interior pieces have a higher quality feel to them; the Lexus Link control panel (in the ceiling) and the sun visors feel as though they came from an IS...
Here are the areas where the LS460L is superior (IMHO) to the Phaeton:
1. I never thought I'd see a paint finish that matched the quality of the one on the Phaeton. Now, I haven't yet had the chance to see how durable the paint on the Lexus is -- how thick it is and how well it resists chipping -- but the smoothness and depth of the finish is the best I've ever seen on a mass-production vehicle. The car looks as though it's been extensively color-sanded; those Lexus robots are polishing to perfection.
2. The accomodations in the Lexus are clearly superior. Though a few of the bits in the Phaeton are better designed or higher in apparent quality, the overall feel inside the Lexus is clearly a cut above the competition.
3. The design of the Lexus interior is an improvement over the VW. Though it has far more tech goodies than the Phaeton, all these gadgets are incorporated into a very simple, straightforward user interface. Sure, the car has a high button count, but the organization of buttons into subgroups makes everything fairly intuitive; what's not immediately obvious is quickly figured out. The overall feel is clean yet tastefully opulent. It feels more like a well-executed BizJet interior than anything else.
4. The tech on the Lexus is more advanced -- and it works better -- than that of the Phaeton; though it may not be fair to compare a 2004 model to a 2007, the LS460L has the following advantages:
a. A HDD/GPS system that works brilliantly; it may only be two generations removed from the Phaeton's CD-based system (CD>DVD>HDD), but the Lexus system feels -- from a functional standpoint -- like using a light-saber after wielding a broadsword.
b. The Mark Levinson sound system is one of the best systems I've ever heard in a car, and I've heard aftermarket car systems where the stereo work alone cost over $50K. The radio tuners on both AM and FM are spectacularly good; we live in a multipath-prone area and the Lexus radio almost never suffers from the distortion we hear on every other auto radio in our garage (Phaeton and E55, both with the optional sound systems). The overall frequency balance is very well-tuned; the system never sounds overly bright or edgy. The highs are smooth and extended, while the lows are deep, extended, and clear. The best trick this system pulls off, however, is very good stereo imaging from each of the four primary positions in the car. The Phaeton, with DSP set for the driver's position, has uncanny imaging for the driver but compromised sound for everyone else. The Lexus provides a better experience for everyone in the car. However, I do NOT like what happens with the Surround option engaged. It changes the frequency response in what, for me, is an unpleasant way; this makes the benefit in perceived image width not worth the tradeoffs in brightness and harshness. The ability to load CDs directly onto the HDD is, quite simply, brilliantly executed. However, I'd like more options -- ala iTunes -- to set the ripping to a higher quality setting. The only options are 128kbps and 256kbps; at the highest quality setting the differences between the CD and the HDD/MP3 copy are audible. If the car had a poorer audio system this would probably not be noticeable, but the resolution and quality of the audio system are ruthless -- it will clearly show you all the flaws of whatever you feed it. Lossless encoding would be a nice touch...
c. The Lexus doors and trunk are remarkable; they require very little pressure to close, and -- if you undershoot -- the automatic closing feature is awfully nice. The electrically operated trunk is wonderful; though the Phaeton offered this as an option our car lacks this feature; I had to remove one of the two gas struts to make it to where my wife -- who's quite strong -- could close the lid in a reasonable fashion.
5. The build quality on the Lexus is simply astonishing. I love German cars, but this car is going to give BMW and Mercedes engineers nightmares. The shut lines on the doors, hood, and trunk are have the smallest gaps I've ever seen on a car, and they are uniformly perfect from beginning to end. The chrome trim on the side windows is a single metal casting -- unreal! The details on the car -- like the center armrest/console cover, which closes through an elaborate arc at the slightest touch -- make you giggle at first as you realize that every detail on the car is designed with the user's tactile experience in mind.
6. The vehicle dynamics of the LS460L are superior to those of the Phaeton. This was QUITE the shocker; after driving the LS for 20-30 minutes -- then hopping into the Phaeton for the drive home -- I was extremely surprised by how crude the VW felt after driving the Lexus. I'm going to get torched if any of my Phaeton brethren are reading this, but I'm trying to be as objective as possible here. Though the Phaeton has an amazing "cruise missle" feel, the Lexus feels smoother-riding, more nimble, more solidly constructed, better handling, and far quicker in acceleration than the P-car. I don't know why some testers have declared the car to be slower than Lexus' published figures; the car feels very quick to me. There's also just the right touch of engine noise in the cabin -- a new experience for LS drivers. BTW, I am used to the acceleration of my 2005 Mercedes E55 -- a rocketship by anyone's standard -- so I think I have some valid reference points for "quick".
7. The transmission on the Lexus is a remarkable achievement. Like some of the other features on the car, I initially thought this would fit into the category of overkill. But the engineering and execution of this unit consistently impresses. It's shifts are smooth yet quick and efficient, and the gearing advantage of eight ratios is apparent when flooring the throttle when entering the freeway or pulling out onto a busy secondary road with rapidly approaching traffic.
8. The handling of the car is quite good. If I were in charge of suspension design at Lexus, I would have changed the settings on the 3-position switch for Comfort/Normal/Sport. I would have replaced Comfort with Normal, Normal with Sport, and Sport with Sportier. So far we keep the car in Sport/Power modes almost exclusively. These settngs are close to ideal, but I would like to be able to go one-click sportier at times.
I'm getting tired so I need to wrap this up. Are there flaws on the car? Absolutely. The Voice Recognition controls require some study and education to learn properly. The jury is still out on how well they ultimately funcion (once the operator is up to speed). The Automatic Parking feature is absolutely not intuitive to use. During our test drive -- with our knowledgable salesman in the car -- we could never figure out how to get it to back the car into a space. After 4-5 attempts we gave up; I'll have to learn how to use this but I don't think it's something we'll use with any regularity. I'd also like to be able to customize some of the functions to my liking just a little more; it would be nice, for example, to be able to customize the Adaptive Volume threshold to my exact preferences. I'd also like it if -- when I opened the hood -- there was something to see besides plastic covers that make the underhood experience appear to be something produced by Cuisinart. I'd also like a bigger trunk, but I also like the icebox feature and the air purifer. Like most Americans, I merely want it all!
I also have high marks for the Lexus dealership experience. However, one problem I have is how some dealers are handling their advertising. Specifically, they typically send you off with plastic license plates advertising the dealership, PLUS cheap metal frames with the dealer name stamped above and below the plate. The cheap metal license frame rubbed through the clear coat on the back of the car. Though this may not seem significant, I would expect this area to be better designed (look at a Mercedes) to prevent this from happening. Also, I can NOT believe that there should be ANY reason to drill the front bumper of the car to install the license plate mount! There are already two holes -- from the factory -- that look as though they match up EXACTLY with the holes on a US license plate. Appparently -- and this is my read and IMHO only -- it would be more work for either the dealer's or the ports PDI staff to hold a blind nut in place while working the bold through the plate and the plate holder. Instead, they drilled two holes into the bumper of our car, and these holes have that "pulled through" look with flared edges that can't easily be repaired. So, although I've never run a front plate for the 20 years I've been a Californian, I have no choice on this car unless I want to take it to a paint shop for an expensive repair. Lexus really dropped the ball on this one; this might be OK on a $20K vehicle, but it's completely unacceptable on an $84K luxury car.
There you have it -- my rants and (mostly) raves...
Photos at: http://web.mac.com/raythompson/iWeb/Site/Lexus.html
Last edited by brt3; 10-23-06 at 11:09 AM. Reason: adding photo link...
MAkes me want to get one now 
10-22-06, 12:58 AM
#5
Thanks for sharing your new LS experiences and insights with us! I am rather envious...
The pictures look great, the LS in silver is simply stunning.
Reading through your post, I was most pleasantly surprised by your appraisal of the driving dynamics...it seems that the new LS has indeed improved significantly--your LS 460 L beating the LS 430 sport pkg by far, it seems. Given your experience with the E55's acceleration, I am glad to hear your assessment of the LS 460's speed lives up to the stated specs. The improved driving dynamics have further piqued my interest for a forthcoming LS test drive of my own.
Glad to hear the paint quality is great. BTW I read that the LS 460 is buffed with triple-axis paint robots, and hand-sanded twice! I believe that new paint process, exclusive to the LS, plays a role in the gorgeous new finish.
I hope you can live with the smaller trunk space (since you have other cars if you needed more?). Good to hear the trunk closer works well for you; BTW this was a request from many of us LS 430 owners!
It was great to read the first extensive LS 460 ML sound review on this forum, from you. Sounds like those 19 speakers are well positioned to all cabin seats. It's amazing that the system can rival far more expensive aftermarket systems. Glad to hear the HDD transfer from CD option works well.
I agree that the myriad of buttons are very thoughfully designed. From the pictures it seemed like it would be overwhelming but in person I've felt totally at home. The added buttons are fine, probably due to the subgrouping as you stated. It's surreal how well-designed the interior is. The panel tolerances, gaps etc. are probably many times improved over the past LS, too. In the videos I watched, the center console arc opens and closes beautifully. It's the details that make the car special!
Judging from the salesman's comment, and the license plate frames, it seems the dealer is still adjusting to Lexus' move upmarket. I myself have found issue with some Lexus dealerships here in SoCal being rather cheap with ".com" license plate holders; what you described should be rectified and maybe you can let the dealer know about it when the first sales satisfaction survey comes in. Lexus is heading for ultra-luxury territory and they will be very interested in improving on this, their best vehicle ever, and the ownership experience. Hopefully they will keep you happy.
Thanks for the detailed impressions!
The pictures look great, the LS in silver is simply stunning. Reading through your post, I was most pleasantly surprised by your appraisal of the driving dynamics...it seems that the new LS has indeed improved significantly--your LS 460 L beating the LS 430 sport pkg by far, it seems. Given your experience with the E55's acceleration, I am glad to hear your assessment of the LS 460's speed lives up to the stated specs. The improved driving dynamics have further piqued my interest for a forthcoming LS test drive of my own.
Glad to hear the paint quality is great. BTW I read that the LS 460 is buffed with triple-axis paint robots, and hand-sanded twice! I believe that new paint process, exclusive to the LS, plays a role in the gorgeous new finish.
I hope you can live with the smaller trunk space (since you have other cars if you needed more?). Good to hear the trunk closer works well for you; BTW this was a request from many of us LS 430 owners!
It was great to read the first extensive LS 460 ML sound review on this forum, from you. Sounds like those 19 speakers are well positioned to all cabin seats. It's amazing that the system can rival far more expensive aftermarket systems. Glad to hear the HDD transfer from CD option works well.
I agree that the myriad of buttons are very thoughfully designed. From the pictures it seemed like it would be overwhelming but in person I've felt totally at home. The added buttons are fine, probably due to the subgrouping as you stated. It's surreal how well-designed the interior is. The panel tolerances, gaps etc. are probably many times improved over the past LS, too. In the videos I watched, the center console arc opens and closes beautifully. It's the details that make the car special!
Judging from the salesman's comment, and the license plate frames, it seems the dealer is still adjusting to Lexus' move upmarket. I myself have found issue with some Lexus dealerships here in SoCal being rather cheap with ".com" license plate holders; what you described should be rectified and maybe you can let the dealer know about it when the first sales satisfaction survey comes in. Lexus is heading for ultra-luxury territory and they will be very interested in improving on this, their best vehicle ever, and the ownership experience. Hopefully they will keep you happy.
Thanks for the detailed impressions!
10-22-06, 01:08 AM
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Quick question about the sound systems. Do you have the optional DSP Sound System in the Phaeton (option 9V)? It is lauded as one of THE best systems in car on earth. How would you compare the two? As far a ride, does the Lexus have that same strange non-dipping feel when you go over rain gutters and dips like the Phaeton's Sky Hook system?
10-22-06, 02:43 AM
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Hey - BRT3 - this is NHEY from the Qualia 006 thread at AVS forum.
Glad to see a fellow Qualian getting the 460L. Mine is not yet in - I'm getting black/black. It is replacing my 2004 LS 430 ultra.
For those who don't know what a Qualia 006 is, it is (still) the top high-def RPTV on the market 2 years after its introduction.
Great review!!
Glad to see a fellow Qualian getting the 460L. Mine is not yet in - I'm getting black/black. It is replacing my 2004 LS 430 ultra.
For those who don't know what a Qualia 006 is, it is (still) the top high-def RPTV on the market 2 years after its introduction.
Great review!!
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10-22-06, 06:48 AM
#9
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brt3 - great review. Do you have the air suspension?
I find it disappointing that the LWB car is smaller than Phaeton and your window sticker pic says it's classified as a mid-size car.
I find it disappointing that the LWB car is smaller than Phaeton and your window sticker pic says it's classified as a mid-size car.
10-22-06, 07:08 AM
#10
i think ratio of touring packages in first builds is very, very low... so probably not.
10-22-06, 09:31 AM
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10-22-06, 12:11 PM
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Quick question about the sound systems. Do you have the optional DSP Sound System in the Phaeton (option 9V)? It is lauded as one of THE best systems in car on earth. How would you compare the two? As far a ride, does the Lexus have that same strange non-dipping feel when you go over rain gutters and dips like the Phaeton's Sky Hook system?
As I mentioned, the only flaws I see in the ML/Lexus system are the surround processing and the lack of a higher quality setting for ripping CDs (see above).
Not sure about the air-suspension quirk you are describing; I thought the Sky Hook system was in the Maserati's (but I could be wrong). The Lexus air suspension (which we have) is very well-behaved. California has some of the WORST roads in the country, so we constantly get to see how it performs over bad pavement...
10-22-06, 12:12 PM
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10-22-06, 12:15 PM
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Sorry if that wasn't clear. The Phaeton is larger overall and heavier, but only has a noticeable space advantage when it comes to interior width. The rear seat in the LS460L feels even roomier (legroom + headroom) than the Phaeton. Without the TinyTrunk option the trunk sizes are probably comparable, though the Phaeton may have a more usable trunk than the standard LS...
10-22-06, 12:18 PM
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Hey - BRT3 - this is NHEY from the Qualia 006 thread at AVS forum. Glad to see a fellow Qualian getting the 460L. Mine is not yet in - I'm getting black/black. It is replacing my 2004 LS 430 ultra. For those who don't know what a Qualia 006 is, it is (still) the top high-def RPTV on the market 2 years after its introduction. Great review!!