Lextreme Torque Converter And Turbo SC400
03-16-08, 07:50 PM
#32
Regardless, I'm happy with the dragon TQ purchase. This is all that really matters. If your on a budget, there's nothing wrong with the Lextreme TQ. If your like me and you can't get over the thought that maybe, there is a real performance difference between the Lextreme and the dragon, then get the dragon and be happy with it.
If you go to their website, they go into some detail on how their converters are "better" than the rest. I didn't really see anywhere that it said if they were all new or rebuilt though.
KC
03-17-08, 02:11 PM
#33
Forum Administrator
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I'll email the PI Dragon folks and ask them 
03-20-08, 07:15 AM
#34
Hey Dave: I have spoken with the PI guys more than once in my search to build the ultimate Driving Machine 
, and I looked back on their website to review some of what we spoke about well over a year ago when I decided to get the Precision TQ Converter. They build a heck of a lot of modifications and "extras" that seem to place them a bunch ahead of the rest.
There was a question about my TQ Converter over in my thread as well, and the smaller size of it, so, I added this post to help answer some of the questions. I hope this helps...
I was thinking about the question with the smaller TQ Converter from Precision, and I remembered that I had researched this a very long time ago, and that the info I found convinced me that Precision (Dragon) was the way to go for a TQ Converter. I knew Precision made them smaller for a reason, but I could not remember why, so I looked up some articles on their website, and found my answer. her is an excerpt form them explaining why their TQ's are smaller than a stock one.
"The Truth About The 9-12 and 9-11 Spaceship Type Converters
, and I looked back on their website to review some of what we spoke about well over a year ago when I decided to get the Precision TQ Converter. They build a heck of a lot of modifications and "extras" that seem to place them a bunch ahead of the rest. There was a question about my TQ Converter over in my thread as well, and the smaller size of it, so, I added this post to help answer some of the questions. I hope this helps...
I was thinking about the question with the smaller TQ Converter from Precision, and I remembered that I had researched this a very long time ago, and that the info I found convinced me that Precision (Dragon) was the way to go for a TQ Converter. I knew Precision made them smaller for a reason, but I could not remember why, so I looked up some articles on their website, and found my answer. her is an excerpt form them explaining why their TQ's are smaller than a stock one.
"The Truth About The 9-12 and 9-11 Spaceship Type Converters
All late model transmissions regardless of make have a clutch in the torque converter. Precision Industries was the first performance torque converter company to design and successfully manufacture a small diameter clutch assembly that would survive the abuses of high performance late model vehicles. We had to manufacture a special front cover, clutch plate and develop a clutch lining that would handle pulse width modulation. This is the reason we use a special billet front cover not just for the good looks! Our competitors in the performance industry do not have the technical ability or the capability and are just too cheap to follow our lead. They are using all stock front cover and clutch parts designed and built for 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles to compete with Precision Industries. When OBDII appeared they suddenly found out that using these inferior 4 and 6 cylinder front cover and clutch parts was not going to work so they started using 15 year old technology, the so called 9-12 or 9-11 spaceship type of torque converter. What these torque converters consist of are parts from 1- $10.00 and 1- $35.00 wrecking yard torque converter core along with a steel ring to mate the 2 converters together. Using these parts equates to a value for this type of torque converter to no more than $300.00. While this type of torque converter seemed to solve the torque converter clutch problem it instantly created more serious problems. One advantage to using a small diameter torque converter is that it has a lot less rotating mass than the stock 12” torque converter and with the thick steel plate to mount the 2 stock torque converter halves together to make the 9-12 you end up with more rotating mass than the stock 12” torque converter. A more critical problem with the 9-12 spaceship type torque converter is the turbine wash over of this design. The turbine wash over is so strong that the large diameter torque converter clutch is pushed up against the front cover and drags during stall and acceleration. This action kills acceleration and causes undue stress to the torque converter clutch. What this means is this style of torque converter will never accelerate as well as the small diameter torque converter meaning slower 60 ft. and ET times. This style of torque converter would probably work satisfactorily in Grandma’s car but is not something you would want for a performance torque converter. Our competitors must be laughing all the way to the bank selling this inferior product for the price they are asking!"
Also, on their Website, they show several major differences that they do versus what many other "rebuilders" do. It is a significant difference. You can find that info here with pics: http://www.converter.com/competition.htm
I hope this helps. I also hope it is ok to post up that link on their website because it so effectively answers the questions at hand...
Ryan
Also, on their Website, they show several major differences that they do versus what many other "rebuilders" do. It is a significant difference. You can find that info here with pics: http://www.converter.com/competition.htm
I hope this helps. I also hope it is ok to post up that link on their website because it so effectively answers the questions at hand...
Ryan
03-20-08, 09:55 AM
#35
I haven't had the time to search for the members who use the Lextreme TC. I also haven't had the time to look for the info from the PI TC nor who use them successfully at high hp. The info or what we're debating about is based pretty much on self experience and opinion. Even the PI TC statement is more like their opinion saying their tech is best. Nevertheless, I'm really happy with the Lextreme TC because I could see a big difference in gained performance comparing to the stock TC. I have 2 thumbs up no matter what.
03-20-08, 09:55 AM
#36
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
Also should mention that the re-stalled torque converters tend to shred faster during engine-breaking. That causes the transmission to get clogged and ultimately fail sooner The PI Dragon is not a stock torque converter that has been re-stalled. It's a different, smaller body torque converter.
03-20-08, 09:05 PM
#37
I haven't had the time to search for the members who use the Lextreme TC. I also haven't had the time to look for the info from the PI TC nor who use them successfully at high hp. The info or what we're debating about is based pretty much on self experience and opinion. Even the PI TC statement is more like their opinion saying their tech is best. Nevertheless, I'm really happy with the Lextreme TC because I could see a big difference in gained performance comparing to the stock TC. I have 2 thumbs up no matter what.
Ryan
03-20-08, 09:08 PM
#38
Also should mention that the re-stalled torque converters tend to shred faster during engine-breaking. That causes the transmission to get clogged and ultimately fail sooner The PI Dragon is not a stock torque converter that has been re-stalled. It's a different, smaller body torque converter.
Ryan
03-21-08, 06:55 AM
#39
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I cant speak with experience about the Lextreme TC but I can on the PI Dragon. I had a Dragon before my 6 speed intall and I loved it. Great performance mod. No CEL, not sure how 2 TC's with the same stall could hae one cause this and the other not?
No top end loss, I did over 230RWHP on a stock NA SC400 with no tuning. Just Exhaust, BFI, LSD, and Dragon TC.
Why would a stall kill top end power?
Not saying the Lextreme is not a great TC, The price puts it in reach of most SC400 owners
Thats a big thumbs up. That being said, I cant imagine how anyone could throw rocks at a PI dragon TC, They are a high end TC but you have to pay for it.
No top end loss, I did over 230RWHP on a stock NA SC400 with no tuning. Just Exhaust, BFI, LSD, and Dragon TC.
Why would a stall kill top end power?
Not saying the Lextreme is not a great TC, The price puts it in reach of most SC400 owners
Thats a big thumbs up. That being said, I cant imagine how anyone could throw rocks at a PI dragon TC, They are a high end TC but you have to pay for it.
03-21-08, 08:01 AM
#40
I cant speak with experience about the Lextreme TC but I can on the PI Dragon. I had a Dragon before my 6 speed intall and I loved it. Great performance mod. No CEL, not sure how 2 TC's with the same stall could hae one cause this and the other not?
No top end loss, I did over 230RWHP on a stock NA SC400 with no tuning. Just Exhaust, BFI, LSD, and Dragon TC.
Why would a stall kill top end power?
Not saying the Lextreme is not a great TC, The price puts it in reach of most SC400 owners Thats a big thumbs up. That being said, I cant imagine how anyone could throw rocks at a PI dragon TC, They are a high end TC but you have to pay for it.
No top end loss, I did over 230RWHP on a stock NA SC400 with no tuning. Just Exhaust, BFI, LSD, and Dragon TC.
Why would a stall kill top end power?
Not saying the Lextreme is not a great TC, The price puts it in reach of most SC400 owners
Thats a big thumbs up. That being said, I cant imagine how anyone could throw rocks at a PI dragon TC, They are a high end TC but you have to pay for it.Ryan
03-21-08, 02:18 PM
#41
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Please forgive my ignorance, but thread seems to reference the SC4 exclusively. Can equal (or similar) performance gains be achieved from a TC install on a inline 6?
03-21-08, 06:20 PM
#42
I did say the 6cyl TQ will not work with the 1UZ flexplate. And it won't.
that's why they are using the "FRONT" of the 6cyl welded to the rear of the 8cyl TQ.
Again stock Toyota parts rebuilt. they cut the TQ open, cut the stator, and raise the stall. Standard rebuild procedure/
By welding the 6cyl front on to the 8cyl rear they can give you a higher stall then the 8cyl converter.
Any TQ shop can do this for around $100 if you get them the core.
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