IS 350 AWD Very Loose No Traction!
11-06-15, 08:40 AM
#32
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Neither of you contributed much to the conversation other than saying they're "junk, ****y, crap tires."
Again, I'm not saying people should replace worn-out OE tires with new OE tires when that time comes; the price premium over other tires is not worth it. But you also don't need to go out and replace full-tread tires on your brand new IS because people on the internet say they're junk. I'd rather use up the tires first then spend $600+ on new tires later. The conversation changes slightly if you frequently drive in the mountains, twisty roads, or on track.
Again, I'm not saying people should replace worn-out OE tires with new OE tires when that time comes; the price premium over other tires is not worth it. But you also don't need to go out and replace full-tread tires on your brand new IS because people on the internet say they're junk. I'd rather use up the tires first then spend $600+ on new tires later. The conversation changes slightly if you frequently drive in the mountains, twisty roads, or on track.
11-06-15, 02:22 PM
#34
I had ER33's on my IS350, probably not the same as most of you with AWD...
The stock tires are not junk though. They're engineered for a certain purpose whether it's fuel economy, minimal road noise, wear, comfort, or all-season performance. It's literally impossible for them to check all the boxes that customers expect when designing a particular product. To say they're ****ty tires makes me think you're all morons. They're not designed to have tons of grip in the first place.
Go buy some MPSS, Hankook V12s, RE71R, or blizzaks then come back here and complain when they ride hard, suck in the cold weather, or make tons of noise. Can't have it all without sacrificing something.
I understand your concerns though, I'm an automotive engineer so I'm slightly biased I suppose
The stock tires are not junk though. They're engineered for a certain purpose whether it's fuel economy, minimal road noise, wear, comfort, or all-season performance. It's literally impossible for them to check all the boxes that customers expect when designing a particular product. To say they're ****ty tires makes me think you're all morons. They're not designed to have tons of grip in the first place.
Go buy some MPSS, Hankook V12s, RE71R, or blizzaks then come back here and complain when they ride hard, suck in the cold weather, or make tons of noise. Can't have it all without sacrificing something.
I understand your concerns though, I'm an automotive engineer so I'm slightly biased I suppose
Ummm
Price: The ER33 is a whopping $254 per front tire and $262 per rear tire. This is an insanely poor value. Keep in mind Bridgestone will not even sell this as a consumer aftermarket tire but this is ONLY a lexus spec tire. Lets look at the price of an incredibly superior BS PP S04 which is $149 per front tire and $174 per rear tire. The RE760 which is also far superior is only $128 front and $162 rear. Even the best in class PSS is only $188 front and $224 rear
Wear: The ER33 has an amazinly poor 140 treadwear. This is pretty much unheard of in anything but a combo track/road tire like a sport cup, RS3, etc. Of course the ER33 has absolutely nowhere near the handling of these track/road tires but does have the incredibly poor service life. Once again, the tire that offers superior performance in all categories of summer tire, the PP S04 offers a 280 treadwear and the PSS a 300 treadwear. The less expensive RE760 which is a fantastic tire has a 340 rating.
Performance: There are 37 reviews of the ER33 placing it dead last in their performance category with worse scores than even the cheapest budget tire out there. You need only to drive the car on a different tire to know the difference. Swapping to the reasonably priced and longer treadwear RE760 resulted in far superior wet and dry traction.
Comfort: The ER33 is relatively loud and as a 140 treadwear tire there is nothing spectacularly comfortable about it. The PSS has been heralded as very comfortable and the RE760 rides much more comfortable than the PSS giving up a performance edge to the PSS but having significantly more performance than the ER33
The ER33 is a lexus only tire that BS could not even hope to sell to people with other makes/models. It is their absolute lowest rated tire and is pretty much crap in every category there is (price, wear, performance, NVH).
I'm not an engineer.
Mike
11-06-15, 06:25 PM
#35
Neither of you contributed much to the conversation other than saying they're "junk, ****y, crap tires."
Again, I'm not saying people should replace worn-out OE tires with new OE tires when that time comes; the price premium over other tires is not worth it. But you also don't need to go out and replace full-tread tires on your brand new IS because people on the internet say they're junk. I'd rather use up the tires first then spend $600+ on new tires later. The conversation changes slightly if you frequently drive in the mountains, twisty roads, or on track.
Again, I'm not saying people should replace worn-out OE tires with new OE tires when that time comes; the price premium over other tires is not worth it. But you also don't need to go out and replace full-tread tires on your brand new IS because people on the internet say they're junk. I'd rather use up the tires first then spend $600+ on new tires later. The conversation changes slightly if you frequently drive in the mountains, twisty roads, or on track.
11-06-15, 08:10 PM
#36
As much as I'd like to continue this back-n-forth bickering about who's right or wrong I don't think it's very productive nor useful to other forum members.
FYI, I ran the OE ER33's on my IS for 5000 miles before installing RE-11 tires which now have 3500 miles and 11 trackdays on them. So I guess I have less driving experience and knowledge than both of you.
But by all means please continue to berate me and my "engineer" status. If you didnt understand that comment earlier I really can't help you. Cheers.
FYI, I ran the OE ER33's on my IS for 5000 miles before installing RE-11 tires which now have 3500 miles and 11 trackdays on them. So I guess I have less driving experience and knowledge than both of you.
But by all means please continue to berate me and my "engineer" status. If you didnt understand that comment earlier I really can't help you. Cheers.
11-07-15, 08:42 AM
#37
Hey Mike, nice to see you all again; been off forums this year. You know, older, priorites, blah. I'm not an engineer either but have been involved with cars/tech/track/racing since 14 for 35+ yrs so I think I have enough experience to know what I'm talking about.
Mfrs such as Lexus spec certain (crappy) stuff like ER33s and EL400-02s to exceed performance and comfort specs w/o too much regard for price or treadwear. Notice the EL400-02 is in the lowest Standard Touring category, and also at the bottom of the list: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=ST. I noticed they actually short you 1/32" at 9/32 new, along with the lousy 260 treadwear. The following is only a generalization but should illustrate the above.
Pretend you have a string circle w/ 4 points at 12-3-6-9 representing Performance (traction & handling), Comfort (ride & noise), Treadwear, and Price. Raise Performance by stretching it outwards and see that the others connectively decrease, i.e. you can't have an increase in more than two areas w/o decreasing the other two. So Performance can only go along with say Comfort if sacrificing Price and Treadwear, or remove Comfort for one of the other two. Either that or a tire would be 2x $.
My favorites right now are the Mich PS A/S 3 or maybe the Pirelli P Zero A/S Plus if not dealing with a lot of snow, the best dry/wet handlers http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=201
or else the new Conti EC DWS 06 for northerners (snow test coming); it and the older DWS have the only real snow traction of any UHP A/S due to the tread design. A little number in steering response from my old set. Don't tell me about Winters, that's another thread.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=194
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=177
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=165
I stay away from unidirectionals so I can side swap the staggered asymmetrics. My EL400s are 3/32 after 21k mi, so the A/S 3 for the DC area from http://currysauto.com, their prices at $208 / 259 are near equal Tire Rack after shipping / install. Currys was a local perf shop, now part of regional Mr Tire under mega corp Monro Muffler and Brake. Surprized they actually ride a whole lot better than expected, though a slight reduction in immediate steering response. Not wishy washy, but more like a little extra push to get the wheel off center. Plus lighter by 1 lb.
Hope this was useful.
Mfrs such as Lexus spec certain (crappy) stuff like ER33s and EL400-02s to exceed performance and comfort specs w/o too much regard for price or treadwear. Notice the EL400-02 is in the lowest Standard Touring category, and also at the bottom of the list: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=ST. I noticed they actually short you 1/32" at 9/32 new, along with the lousy 260 treadwear. The following is only a generalization but should illustrate the above.
Pretend you have a string circle w/ 4 points at 12-3-6-9 representing Performance (traction & handling), Comfort (ride & noise), Treadwear, and Price. Raise Performance by stretching it outwards and see that the others connectively decrease, i.e. you can't have an increase in more than two areas w/o decreasing the other two. So Performance can only go along with say Comfort if sacrificing Price and Treadwear, or remove Comfort for one of the other two. Either that or a tire would be 2x $.
My favorites right now are the Mich PS A/S 3 or maybe the Pirelli P Zero A/S Plus if not dealing with a lot of snow, the best dry/wet handlers http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=201
or else the new Conti EC DWS 06 for northerners (snow test coming); it and the older DWS have the only real snow traction of any UHP A/S due to the tread design. A little number in steering response from my old set. Don't tell me about Winters, that's another thread.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=194
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=177
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=165
I stay away from unidirectionals so I can side swap the staggered asymmetrics. My EL400s are 3/32 after 21k mi, so the A/S 3 for the DC area from http://currysauto.com, their prices at $208 / 259 are near equal Tire Rack after shipping / install. Currys was a local perf shop, now part of regional Mr Tire under mega corp Monro Muffler and Brake. Surprized they actually ride a whole lot better than expected, though a slight reduction in immediate steering response. Not wishy washy, but more like a little extra push to get the wheel off center. Plus lighter by 1 lb.
Hope this was useful.
Last edited by 4WDrift; 11-07-15 at 09:25 AM.
11-28-15, 05:26 PM
#38
I am are contributing to this thread by calling out your BS. We called the OEM tires junk because we drove cars that came with them. Therefore we KNOW the tires are junk. We also pointed out tirerack reviews that you conveniently labeled as subjective. Survey ratings based on 900k accumulated miles from owners are still at lot more convincing than you, Mr. engineer.
These Bridgestones are absolute junk. I can't wrap my head around the fact that our nearly $50K cars are fitted with these. Rather than risk going through what I did with the other three tires, I replaced them all with Pilot Sport A/S 3. What a huge difference. I will never use Bridgestone tires ever again. I don't suggest anyone keeping them on also.
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