JCtx

First of all, let me give you some of my past vehicles (all bought new -except BMW-, and lexuses with all options) and driving preferences for you to give me a more meaningful opinion.

'96 SC400 - Great car. Hated the transmission's reluctance to downshift. This car had the 4-sp, and up-graded 260 horse engine. Traded it for GS w/4K miles. Great interior, great ride. Nakamichi was awesome too.

'98 GS400 - Better performance than the SC, but liked the cozy interior of SC better. Ordered the 17" wheels. Ride was firm but not harsh; perfectly adequate for me. Noisy by Lexus standards, especially tire roar intrusion. Still reluctant to downshift, but Eshift solved that problem. Had many recalls and TSBs, and although not mechanically related, still a royal PITA to deal with. Promised never to buy a new model year ever again. Sold it to a great guy who contacted me thru this forum 4 years later, w/14K miles.

'98 LS400 - Surprisingly, this car had the best transmission kickdown. Funeral home quiet inside. Had engine noise that became worse and worse. Lexus did nothing even when I had an identically engined GS400 to compare it to. Wife asked me to sell it, and did so at a huge loss ($14K). Was disappointed at Lexus, and stayed out of it for a while.

'00 BMW 323CiC - Bought car from brother. Wanted a convertible, but absolutely hated the noisy, vulnerable, and maintenance-intensive soft top. Sold it a year later. Found out I REALLY like convertibles, but only hard-top. Traded it in for vette; drove it for 4K miles.

'03 VETTE coupe - Always wanted to have one ever since they came out, but with the crappy chevy quality, waited a few years to avoid the problems. There's something attractive about this car, but after being spoiled by lexuses, it's just not for me. It's visceral and noisy, but my biggest gripe is the interior quality (or lack thereof); it's plastic everywhere, even on the side bolsters. You'd figure this car is to drive fast, but above 80 mph becomes too noisy (wind leaks plus noisy RF tires). It's a great car to fool around, but not for my only vehicle. Owned it for 7 months, with only 1,800 miles on the clock; I just put it for sale to buy the SC430. Believe it or not, this car has a great ride, plus great handling too.

Okay, now my driving preferences: value ride over handling all day long. Want a responsive transmission: does it kick down any better on the SC430 than my other lexuses? Want a relataively quiet interior (not worse than the GS and SC400; don't expect it to be like the LS, of course). Waited 3 years to consider this vehicle to hopefully enjoy a trouble-free ownership. Feel free to compare the SC430 with any of the vehicles above, if you have/had them before.

As far as the nagging problems, have they been eliminated? I'm talking about rear suspension harshness, rattling doors with the radio semi-loud, roof banging headliner while closing, unever wear (inside) on front tires, rear seat belts flapping in the wind, seatbacks not reclining enough, etc. Any other not listed?

Finally, what did you get as far as price? The best offer I got so far is $3K below MSRP (I got more than that in my other lexuses) in Albuquerque, NM; is it the best deal for an '04? Car has a whopping $8,500 in profit (excluding holdback and other incentives); unbelievable. I plan to buy either a white or silver with the saddle interior, with the spoiler and run flats (no lexus link though). Black in Texas is criminal (and don't think it wears well), and ecru with white carpet/mats? That only leaves the saddle. Wanted red, but don't think it goes with saddle. Opinions?

Thanks for your comments, and am glad to be back. Yes, I was a regular when I had my GS400. Have a great weekend people.

JC

NYU02

ELP_JC,
Hey, I hope this can help. Before I got my sc430 in june, I had two suv's both rx300's (I still have one). I wanted to switch from a suv to a car. But I have driven every nice sports car on the planet from sl500's to a ferrari (only once with a ferrari, what a thrill haha). This is my take on the car.

1) I see you value ride over handling, well the ride on the car is smooth like a lexus should be but not as smooth as others. Its a stiff ride and u feel every bump. Coming from an SUV it drove me crazy at first because in the RX I barely felt a thing. But I got used to the bumps. If ur on a smooth road its a great car. I'm from NY and drive into NYC everyday so it gets annoying sometimes.

2) As far as a responsive transmission: you dont have to worry the car is amazing. You wont be let down. When i'm in my car I feel like I own the road.

3) With a trouble-free ownership I dont know. Somedays I feel this car is durable. Then there are the days on the bumpy roads I feel the car is going to fall apart. I usually buy cars but decided to lease this car because as with most sporty cars, problems always arise and with my sc430 i'm happy I did. I LOVE the car dont get me wrong but I dont think i want it for 3 years or the same one for more then three years. THat doesn't mean I wouldn't consider a new one when the lease is up but I dont want 3 years of wear and tear from this car when I can get a new one.

With the nagging problems. At first the rattling problem drove me CRAZY! I wanted to get rid of the car the first week. Then I went to Lexus and they fixed one rattle but there is still a little rattle from the dashboard sometimes. Its small and not that bad. I dont mind it anymore and it really is only noticable when you are on a bumpy road with the music off and the top up. Dont worry about this its not that bad.

**Some people changed there tires because the run-flats cause some of the stiffness. The runflats saved me in the city last weekend when I ran over a screw so I am going to keep them. But thats always an option to reduce the stiffness of the ride but its still a LEXUS...IT IS SMOOTH!

With price, I went to 4 dealerships before i bought it. The best deal I got was 3,500 below MSRP and that took some pushing. I got 3,000 below at a couple places but I knew at 3500 it was a steal.

With the color option: I originally ordered my car in red with saddle cause I have a friend with that color combo: Its nice but after seeing it so often I realized it wasn't for me. I got it in white with saddle. I LOVE the saddle interior. I think the navy blue is really nice aswell. and black is a classic.

GOOD LUCK with your search and I hope you get an sc430 and enjoy it as much as I do. I hope I answered your questions as best as I could. Enjoy your weekend and enjoy your car search because its half the fun!

NYU02

I just saw your post on my topic, its funny we were responding to each other at the same time. I just noticed another ship on my side door I think im going to go with touch up paint.

THATS another thing. For some reason this car loves rocks. I dont know if its just me but this car get rock chips like its no ones business. I was washing my car today and I saw the one on my door. Granteed I never owned a sports car before so I dont know if its common but its something that annoys me very much... Take care!

NYU02

JCtx

Hey buddy, thanks for your help. Let me respond to your last one first. The most chip-prone car I've ever had was the GS400; it was unbelievable man, just like a stone magnet. The one which I thought would be worse was the SC, and it wasn't. The one I thought it was going to be by far the worst because it's so low to the ground was the vette. When I brought it home from Dallas to El Paso (about 700 miles), I heard a million stones hit everywhere, some big enough to even turn my head. I was sick to my stomach, and felt stupid for not buying a bra in advance. Amazingly, after close inspection, just ONE chip. My GS would have shown the primer color after that trip. So what you're saying is the SC is another GS, huh? Apparently the aerodynamics of the car is more critical than being close to the ground; based on my experience, it seems like cars which inhale air from the bottom (like the vette and SC400) fare much better than the ones with exposed grilles. It's a bummer I'll go thru the same thing with the new SC ; I hate that, because there're sandstorms in this town almost year round, and if you catch a big rig on the fast lane, it's like if it was raining stones. I pay not to drive on the freeways just for that reason.

I appreciate your input on the SC. I'm not worried about the ride, since I don't mind either the GS (w/45 series tires), or the vette (w/40 series and RFs as well). I like firm ride, but not harsh; no way the SC is going to be worse than the vette, and am happy with the vette's ride. I'm going with either the white (is it plain white or a pearl?) or silver, with saddle interior; whichever is available. Going from the safety/quietness of a coupe to a convertible in 25 seconds is the best feature, and no other car with 2 'jump' seats has it (I need the seats to occasionally pick up my daughters from school). Hey, would you mind letting me know the dealer you bought the car from? I agree that $3,500 is the minimum discount we should settle with. You can PM me and I'll give you my Email address. I don't put it publicly anymore due to the unbelievable amount of spam I receive ever since I started doing that.

Thanks again for all your help. It looks like '04s will start arriving next month. Want to work out a deal asap, so I don't have to wait that long for one.

JC

NYU02

ELP_JC

I have never owned a GS but I will take your word with the rock chips. I have had the car since June and I have three paint chips that really bother me. But I do drive too and from NYC and Long Island which are some of the worse roads on the face of the earth. They get ripped up every year. I saw the silver with the saddle its nice but both my RX's were silver and so many people have silver these days I didn't want another silver car. The white is a pearl white and I love it. I wouldn't think twice, I would do white over silver, but of course both are nice. Whatever color you choose just get the saddle interior. I am in love with that interior. I got my Lexus from Lexus of Massepequa on LI. They gave me the best deal. I see your from Texas so I dont know if that helps but i'm sure you will be able to get the same deal. If they offered you 3000 below just sound like you will buy it on the spot and they will prob go down another 500. I dont think there is any changes to the 04 so maybe you can get a good deal on an 03.

When I bought the car I was considering 3 other cars: M3 convertable, clk500 convertable, and the Jag convertable. What really sold me was the hardtop convertable. I still am amazed by it. Its amazing. I take the top down to go to a store 2 mins away because its just that quick. I friend of mine has a sl500. Its nice aswell but for 100,000, i'd rather pocket 40,000 and get an sc430. Take care

NYU02

1NICESC430

Rough ride? Dump the RFs as many folks here in the forum have done. Most replaced them with Michelin Pilots, but I replaced mine with Goodyear F1's. What a difference!

Downshifting? Something that does not concern me because I shift it manually. I try to keep the RPMs around 3,000-3,500, which means 2nd gear around town (sometimes shifting to 1st when coming to a stop), 3rd gear when driving around 40-50 mph, 4th on rare occasions, and D when I'm tooling along on a limited-access highway. I always keep the ECT in power mode.

I've noticed a few sounds when, with the top up, I drive over a bumpy area. Not as bad with the non-RFs, though.

I never had a "rattling door" problem, but bear in mind that 99% of the music I listen to is classical which is not super-heavy in the bass range. I do keep the volume up pretty high, though, but not enough to disturb people a couple of miles away. After all, not everyone likes to listen to my music - I only wish that others felt the same about theirs

I purchased my '02 in July of '01. The seller did not know the meaning of the word "deal".

If you haven't already, go to www.lexususa.com to see the color combinations available for '04 - they're limited compared to previous years (the combinations are also listed somewhere in this forum - do a search.

As I have written before, every time I look at this car, I think it's more attractive and every time I drive it, I enjoy it more. Sadly, it will be put away in a couple of months for the winter.

Good luck, ELP ... (hey! those are my initals.

JCtx

Hey man, actually 'ELP' is the abbreviation for El Paso; my initials are JC.

Checked the lexus site you posted and '04 colors are indentical to '03, except the addition of a 'pebble beach edition'. I always kept the ECT on 'PWR' on my other lexuses too, but I hate the fact lexus insist on using a stupid computer to 'learn' our habits. PWR should be PWR ALL THE TIME, with quicker downshifts and higher rpm upshifts. By the time you travel 20 easy miles on the freeway, it's back to 'grandpa' mode again. I wish the SC had kept my GS400 wheel E-SHIFT buttons (that was a great feature), but I settle for an easy to shift manual gate. Let me ask you this: if you put the gear in 2,3, does it always start in 1st, like if it was a 2 or 3-sp auto? Some cars just stay in that gear, forcing you to manually shift to 1st or 4/5 every time you stop, and that's a PITA. Just curious.

I'm happy with the RF tires on my vette, so I know for a fact lexus will be a much better ride; no worries there. I listen to the stereo at moderate levels, so the rattling shouldn't be a concern for me. By now, I assume lexus is putting the door panels together better, making them rattle only at excessive volume levels (which will rattle on ANY car). I just need to sell my vette and find the best deal on a white/saddle car, as close as possible to home. This is the best time for a convertible here, as the heat just started subsiding, and there's about 2 months before it gets too cold.

Thanks for chiming in buddy.

JC

1NICESC430

>Let me ask you this: if you put the gear in 2,3, does it always start in 1st, like if it was a 2 or 3-sp auto?<
Y'know, I'm so unaccustomed to automatics, I really can't answer this question. This is the first automatic I've had since my '57 Ford convertible (what a beauty that was) back in 1963.

Let me tell you just how unaccustomed I am, well was, to automatics.... when I first got the SC430, I couldn't figure out how the hell those numbers related to the gas guage. Three indicates half-full? Huh?

Oh yeah ... I had to look down at the shift lever to see what gear I was in. Okay, all you automatic-heads can have a good laugh now.

JCtx

Hey guys, just got an offer on a brand new '03 silver/ecru for $57.5K. I didn't want ecru because of it's light carpet/mats, plus the light wood is not particularly appealing to me, but is this a deal you would consider? My color preferences are either white or silver with saddle. This car has spoiler and run flats, plus trunk mat and wheel locks (just the way I want it). Car has around 50 miles, which means somebody already drove it .
Best deal so far on an '04 is $3K off in Albuquerque, which translates to $61K.

Is the price difference even worth considering, taking into account the '03 is an 'old' car already? It doesn't have the interior color I prefer either, but wouldn't be bad for the Texas heat. Just trying to make the decision that makes more sense for resale, my wallet, and me.

Thanks for your comments.

JC

LexPro

A new car with 50 miles is not abnormal.

Joe Peters

Keep looking. As My Grandad use to say "if you don't buy what you like You
have to like what you buy". Some owners here are on their 2nd SC just fo that
reason. I looked a long time to find a black/saddle 02' for under $50,000.
Downshifts great. Door wood rattle could be caused by the type of music or
adjusting the bass control to much. More bass some times = more distosion.
Either mine was allready fixed or the bass control on mine is set on +1.
Non run flats make it a whole different car, quiter, better ride & better traction.
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3 these are the tires 1nicesc is talking about
I 'm so happy with these Tires. Check this link for the whole story.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...romCompare1=yes
We bought our 2002 SC430 certified pre owned and the 1st owner had the good
since to put these on the car. Traction is great wet or dry and what a comfortable
ride yet handles great & Very Quiet. Read the story about how this tire was designed
in Europe for Sports and GT Cars. Yes I have a spare and some time we put the top
up when we go to the grocery store then there is lots of room in the trunk.
We took a road (1500 miles rt) trip to the Gulf coast of Mississippi 6 weeks ago.
By the time we got from Ft Worth to Shreveport and stopped for gas I noticed some-
thing shiny in the rt fr tire (center of the tread). It turned out to be a screw. We drove
the rest of the way and had it repaired with a plug the next day at a local tire shop.
They didn't even have to take the tire off the car. 10 bucks! I can't complain.
The best part about the tires is the price 198.00 @ tirerack. The second best part
is the sexy tread pattern. I turn the wheels all the way one direction when parked
and get compliments not only on the car but the tires too.

Joe Peters

NYU02

Joe Peters is right, it doesn't matter if they are willing to sell you the car for 50,000 or 40,000 if you dont like the car its waste of money. 65,000 is alot to spend on a car so take your time with it. As I said before I almost bought other colors before settling with white/saddle and boy am I happy I did. I actaully got lucky because I had to originally wait 4 weeks for one but there was one at the dealer that someone bought but his financing fell through so I was able to get it.

JCtx

Hey man, I agree wholeheartedly, but just changed my mind while seeing both interior colors with my wife and girls. Since I'll never have kids jumping up and down my seats, the light color shouldn't be a problem. It's also nice for hot weather like here, so it looks like I'll go with ecru regardless if it's an '03 or '04.
Just talked to the guys there and they give me what I considered the minimum for my vette ($40K with the tax differential) so I can take my daughter on a road trip with me (she doesn't like to fly), so I'm in a position to take the deal. My question is if the $3,700 savings over an '04 is worth, or the depreciation from an '03 to an '04 is more than the $3,700? Thanks for your opinions.

JC

NYU02

Its hard to value the depreciation from an 03 to an 04 with this car because there is no major changes, its not a flagship car and it also depends on what your looking to get out of this car. I have had weird experiences with lexus and depreciation. When I went to trade in my first RX in 2001 which was a 2000 they offered me 27,500 then i went back in december 2001 to get a 2002 and i got 29,000 for the car at the same lexus dealership. It all depends if the dealer has a high demand for the car or not. Of course the RX is a high selling car so maybe that had something to do with it and the fact that I was buying another lexus from that dealer but I think it all had to do with timing and demand. There are no changes with an 03 to an 04 so I think you should be safe. My guess and this is just a guess is that that if and when u go to sell the car the most money difference between years is 4,000-6000 and ur getting a deal which is in the middle so as my pops says its "six hald dozen the other" which means it doesn't really matter which way you go.

JCtx

Okay guys; getting close.
I found ANOTHER silver/ecru; this one closer to home and BRAND NEW (still waiting for mileage confirmation), BUT (and this is a big BUT) the car has been sitting in the sun and the elements for month and a half, WITHOUT a stupid windshield sunshade, when they give you one FREE with purchase.

The deal is even better: $57K. What kind of permanent damage do you think the sun does to this car in 50 days?? Again, would you buy this car at this savings, or an '04 for $61,300? Good thing is this car is available NOW. By the way, the other dealer called and said they made a mistake; the car was a demo, and had over 100 miles, plus they lower the trade-in. Deal is off. This is the exact same car, but 100 miles closer, and apparently new, BUT parked outside the lot (whyyyyyy?).

If you get tired of my stupid questions, just don't respond. I apologize, but nobody can respond to these concerns better than you.

Thanks for putting up with me.

JC