Gutting the ML sound system...
02-15-16, 06:48 AM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Gutting the ML sound system...
Hi folks. My wife's 03 SC430 has a couple of speakers going bad, and I was moved to thinking about replacing them, which considering the costs, time involved, led me to looking into upgrading her head unit, as the early models lack a lot of today's tech stuff (she loves her Pandora streaming via BT, hands free calling, etc)
So as far as my research shows my I have a couple options:
1) Fix speakers ($200 each fronts replacement), Keep ML amp, buy Beatsonic interface ($430) and new head ($200-400). Allows factory Nav to be retained. I updated her Gen2 unit to 2012(maybe it was 13) maps. But it's still kind of a lame nav, and she uses her Galaxy Note 5 for that, anyway now.
This seems like a high cost to me to keep a mediocre system alive.
2) Gut it all, and replace it all with aftermarket. I lose the 'built-in' nav, but as previously mentioned, she doesn't use it anymore. With a double DIN deck she could run Android Auto and just use the nav from there, too. I realize his is high cost time-wise, but probably cheaper, and will sound better in the long run... ($100 / pair fronts & rears, $200-400 head, mids / tweets / sub (probably delete the sub...) another ~$200 or so?) So maybe I end up spending the same amount of cash, but end up with a superior system...
I guess my question is, has anyone done the nuclear option and just torn out the entire ML system and put their own in?
So as far as my research shows my I have a couple options:
1) Fix speakers ($200 each fronts replacement), Keep ML amp, buy Beatsonic interface ($430) and new head ($200-400). Allows factory Nav to be retained. I updated her Gen2 unit to 2012(maybe it was 13) maps. But it's still kind of a lame nav, and she uses her Galaxy Note 5 for that, anyway now.
This seems like a high cost to me to keep a mediocre system alive.
2) Gut it all, and replace it all with aftermarket. I lose the 'built-in' nav, but as previously mentioned, she doesn't use it anymore. With a double DIN deck she could run Android Auto and just use the nav from there, too. I realize his is high cost time-wise, but probably cheaper, and will sound better in the long run... ($100 / pair fronts & rears, $200-400 head, mids / tweets / sub (probably delete the sub...) another ~$200 or so?) So maybe I end up spending the same amount of cash, but end up with a superior system...
I guess my question is, has anyone done the nuclear option and just torn out the entire ML system and put their own in?
02-15-16, 11:51 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
I cannot answer your question but I can provide more information about replacing the head unit and keeping the rest of the OEM ML system.
Mine sounds very good and it really rocks!
I will post some links to give plenty of references.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...with-pics.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...placement.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...to-choose.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...head-unit.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...ir-thread.html
Mine sounds very good and it really rocks!
I will post some links to give plenty of references.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...with-pics.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...placement.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...to-choose.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...head-unit.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc4...ir-thread.html
02-15-16, 05:01 PM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Thanks BGW, maybe I'll go poke around in the audio sub-forum if I don't get any hits here. I've read probably a dozen threads, including some of those linked. I'm an EE and I've replaced radios in my Tundra, and my kids Chevy Monte C... so I guess I'm kind of looking for someone to say "yeah, it's not that easy" or "it's not that hard" / that's a good / bad plan.
02-15-16, 05:12 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Good reply!
Here is my two cents...I repaired the speakers with foam replacements kits from, see link
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/lexus-...t-fsk-6x9.html
I think they have them for all the speakers...these are 8 ohm speakers and most car speakers a 4 ohm.
Since you are a EE, you know a heck more than me! I am only a tech.
Anyway, my rebuilt speakers sound great! And the head unit allowed me to increase the volume more than the OEM head unit.
I can watch movies on the NAV screen but I don't, just never think about it.
It has blue tooth, XM, Waze GPS Pandora/IHEART etc, everything an more than I want!
Here is my two cents...I repaired the speakers with foam replacements kits from, see link
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/lexus-...t-fsk-6x9.html
I think they have them for all the speakers...these are 8 ohm speakers and most car speakers a 4 ohm.
Since you are a EE, you know a heck more than me! I am only a tech.
Anyway, my rebuilt speakers sound great! And the head unit allowed me to increase the volume more than the OEM head unit.
I can watch movies on the NAV screen but I don't, just never think about it.
It has blue tooth, XM, Waze GPS Pandora/IHEART etc, everything an more than I want!
02-16-16, 03:09 PM
#5
Before replacing the head unit, invest in low cost speaker foam repair. Then if not happy, go to the other options. In my case I replaced my 2 fronts. Repaired the subwoofer. All good for me.
02-16-16, 08:30 PM
#6
02-16-16, 09:46 PM
#7
...hey Curr there has been members that have done all the above. Some have repaired speakers, some have gutted & some have replaced different items of the factory system. I think for the most part, most here have been satisfied with what they have done. It wouldn't be hard to replace any or all of the factory system, I think it's going to come down to what you want to do to be happy in the end.
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02-16-16, 09:47 PM
#8
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I did it since the only speakers working were the rears. Lost factory navigation but didnt care since i have google maps on the phone. Happy with the results.
02-16-16, 11:01 PM
#9
Here's my route. I haven't gotten into it yet but have the components to do it.
I'm keeping the factory head unit and running a DSP (digital sound processor). I'm ising a unit made by Mosconi that has a built in Bluetooth conncetion. It'll allow me to run my phone via Bluetooth for one of my sources. The DSP will grab the signal before the ML amp and flatten it. It then can be amplified by an aftermarket unit. I'll be running 2 Arc Audio amps. One to run the front speakers and one for a pair of subs. I won't be running rear speakers. The front speakers will be replace with Focal speakers. A 6.5 and tweeter setup. I'll be running each speaker as a separate channel so all 4 channels will be used for each speaker up front. I'm also installing a reverse camera using Navtool which uses the factory screen. The factory nav will be left in place. I also don't use it and use my phone for nav. I'm ok with that. The entire system is run by a small controller that will be integrated into the ash tray and be tuned using a laptop. The CD player and radio will also still function like normal. So what I'll have is a system that looks factory but will sound nothing like factory. I played with the idea of doing the beatsonic setup but you'll still just have a factory sounding system with a head unit with more options. A lot of those options can be done by my phone which I'm ungrading often. Hope this helps as a third option. Now this option though is more expensive but I feel will look clean.
I'm keeping the factory head unit and running a DSP (digital sound processor). I'm ising a unit made by Mosconi that has a built in Bluetooth conncetion. It'll allow me to run my phone via Bluetooth for one of my sources. The DSP will grab the signal before the ML amp and flatten it. It then can be amplified by an aftermarket unit. I'll be running 2 Arc Audio amps. One to run the front speakers and one for a pair of subs. I won't be running rear speakers. The front speakers will be replace with Focal speakers. A 6.5 and tweeter setup. I'll be running each speaker as a separate channel so all 4 channels will be used for each speaker up front. I'm also installing a reverse camera using Navtool which uses the factory screen. The factory nav will be left in place. I also don't use it and use my phone for nav. I'm ok with that. The entire system is run by a small controller that will be integrated into the ash tray and be tuned using a laptop. The CD player and radio will also still function like normal. So what I'll have is a system that looks factory but will sound nothing like factory. I played with the idea of doing the beatsonic setup but you'll still just have a factory sounding system with a head unit with more options. A lot of those options can be done by my phone which I'm ungrading often. Hope this helps as a third option. Now this option though is more expensive but I feel will look clean.
02-17-16, 10:43 AM
#10
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Here's my route. I haven't gotten into it yet but have the components to do it.
I'm keeping the factory head unit and running a DSP (digital sound processor). I'm ising a unit made by Mosconi that has a built in Bluetooth conncetion. It'll allow me to run my phone via Bluetooth for one of my sources. The DSP will grab the signal before the ML amp and flatten it. It then can be amplified by an aftermarket unit. I'll be running 2 Arc Audio amps. One to run the front speakers and one for a pair of subs. I won't be running rear speakers. The front speakers will be replace with Focal speakers. A 6.5 and tweeter setup. I'll be running each speaker as a separate channel so all 4 channels will be used for each speaker up front. I'm also installing a reverse camera using Navtool which uses the factory screen. The factory nav will be left in place. I also don't use it and use my phone for nav. I'm ok with that. The entire system is run by a small controller that will be integrated into the ash tray and be tuned using a laptop. The CD player and radio will also still function like normal. So what I'll have is a system that looks factory but will sound nothing like factory. I played with the idea of doing the beatsonic setup but you'll still just have a factory sounding system with a head unit with more options. A lot of those options can be done by my phone which I'm ungrading often. Hope this helps as a third option. Now this option though is more expensive but I feel will look clean.
I'm keeping the factory head unit and running a DSP (digital sound processor). I'm ising a unit made by Mosconi that has a built in Bluetooth conncetion. It'll allow me to run my phone via Bluetooth for one of my sources. The DSP will grab the signal before the ML amp and flatten it. It then can be amplified by an aftermarket unit. I'll be running 2 Arc Audio amps. One to run the front speakers and one for a pair of subs. I won't be running rear speakers. The front speakers will be replace with Focal speakers. A 6.5 and tweeter setup. I'll be running each speaker as a separate channel so all 4 channels will be used for each speaker up front. I'm also installing a reverse camera using Navtool which uses the factory screen. The factory nav will be left in place. I also don't use it and use my phone for nav. I'm ok with that. The entire system is run by a small controller that will be integrated into the ash tray and be tuned using a laptop. The CD player and radio will also still function like normal. So what I'll have is a system that looks factory but will sound nothing like factory. I played with the idea of doing the beatsonic setup but you'll still just have a factory sounding system with a head unit with more options. A lot of those options can be done by my phone which I'm ungrading often. Hope this helps as a third option. Now this option though is more expensive but I feel will look clean.
Thanks, and I'll probably be asking a lot of questions as we go forward. I'm pretty good at wiring stuff according to diagrams, and know my way around a soldering station very well, but I'm afraid of what I'm attempting, there will be some parts where I won't expressly have a diagram for / or lots of experience in.
Also, I'm not really well versed on amplifiers, and what really needs amplification beyond what's in the head unit. I know with the right selection I should be able to run the fronts and rears, but do head units come with subwoofers outputs? Maybe I need to even broach the question of "Do I even need the subwoofer?"
Wifey and I are mid-40's so I'm not looking to have huge thumping bass, or perfect sound quality, I mean, it's a convertible, it's a noisy environment inherently.. We mostly listed to either Pandora (rock, foo fighters, seether, shinedown, etc or classical) or she listens to audiobooks.
Since I don't car about factory nav, is there some other way to keep the steering wheel controls for a "regular" head unit ?
Also, the tweeters and mid-ranges in the doors... would I just split off the signal from the front 6x9's and run it through some kind of high pass filter? I guess I'd like to keep them if I can, replaced with "normal" car speakers? Also, will I have to run new speaker wires to all these locations? A good time to upgrade to better wire?
I hope to really document this well, with photos and such so as to help someone else in the same situation.
I'm aiming for a mid Summer install, so the engineer in me says to get to researching now
Appreciate all the help!
02-18-16, 04:56 PM
#11
Pit Crew
To help you decide on the extent of the project, I think it's important to confirm what you really want.
As Mandyfig said, a repair or replacement of the door speakers with original equipment (or suitable 8 ohm equivalent) should return the sound system to one that is among the best for a standard car, even by modern day standards. So if audiophile sound quality isn't required, you may be quite content with the result. (I'm very fussy about sound quality and I am reasonably happy with the standard front set up)
Next, I would think about how the original equipment is set up. The audio signal from the head unit is sent to a multi channel amp in the boot, (trunk) and the amplified signal is then sent to the various speakers throughout the car. Frequencies are divided between high/mid /low according to the speaker units.
If you are happy with the way it sounds with all of the drivers working correctly, then you could decide what you want from the head unit. Consider perhaps the Beatsonic route to integrate an up to date double din head unit that does everything you need or maybe keep the original head unit and fit a different interface to enable an Ipod/iphone connection. These options avoid replacing amps and speakers and a major install.
For better quality sound reproduction, most good aftermarket head units have separate phono leads for front, rear and sub connections to an amplifier or indeed multiple amplifiers. Some have internal amps but these tend to be quite limited and low on power. To improve the overall sound, some people add more sub bass, some change the front speaker set up and some go all the way and replace everything. In my opinion as soon as speaker replacement with aftermarket units is part of the scheme, to improve upon the original set up, a good deal of money and effort is required. lbintab's plan sounds quite ingenious, another clever variation indeed. Focal and Arc should sound fantastic.
Going all the way, I would look to replace all of the front drivers with a very high grade 4 ohm 3 way component system and a sub bass set up in the rear, powered by a high grade multi channel amp fed by a quality head unit. I would probably install all new cabling to preserve the original should the next owner wish to return it to 'stock' later. It's quite an undertaking but great fun if you don't mind a few scratched fingers.
A quick search will reveal some examples of what others have done and the issues encountered but there is plenty of experience here to answer your questions whichever path you choose to take. Another good place to get some ideas and knowledge is via the dedicated car audio forums and some of the suppliers provide helpful guides on line too.
As Mandyfig said, a repair or replacement of the door speakers with original equipment (or suitable 8 ohm equivalent) should return the sound system to one that is among the best for a standard car, even by modern day standards. So if audiophile sound quality isn't required, you may be quite content with the result. (I'm very fussy about sound quality and I am reasonably happy with the standard front set up)
Next, I would think about how the original equipment is set up. The audio signal from the head unit is sent to a multi channel amp in the boot, (trunk) and the amplified signal is then sent to the various speakers throughout the car. Frequencies are divided between high/mid /low according to the speaker units.
If you are happy with the way it sounds with all of the drivers working correctly, then you could decide what you want from the head unit. Consider perhaps the Beatsonic route to integrate an up to date double din head unit that does everything you need or maybe keep the original head unit and fit a different interface to enable an Ipod/iphone connection. These options avoid replacing amps and speakers and a major install.
For better quality sound reproduction, most good aftermarket head units have separate phono leads for front, rear and sub connections to an amplifier or indeed multiple amplifiers. Some have internal amps but these tend to be quite limited and low on power. To improve the overall sound, some people add more sub bass, some change the front speaker set up and some go all the way and replace everything. In my opinion as soon as speaker replacement with aftermarket units is part of the scheme, to improve upon the original set up, a good deal of money and effort is required. lbintab's plan sounds quite ingenious, another clever variation indeed. Focal and Arc should sound fantastic.
Going all the way, I would look to replace all of the front drivers with a very high grade 4 ohm 3 way component system and a sub bass set up in the rear, powered by a high grade multi channel amp fed by a quality head unit. I would probably install all new cabling to preserve the original should the next owner wish to return it to 'stock' later. It's quite an undertaking but great fun if you don't mind a few scratched fingers.
A quick search will reveal some examples of what others have done and the issues encountered but there is plenty of experience here to answer your questions whichever path you choose to take. Another good place to get some ideas and knowledge is via the dedicated car audio forums and some of the suppliers provide helpful guides on line too.
03-02-16, 07:01 AM
#13
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Ok, after discussing this with a couple respected car stereo shops in the Boston area, I'm going to repair / replace the stock speakers (fronts and back), and grab a Beatsonic MVA12L and swap in a Pioneer 4100NEX head unit. Both shops recommended keeping the ML systems as it stands is a pretty decently sounding system.
Both places put the price on gutting it, removing all the old equipment, and then adding in new speakers wiring, etc well above what I was looking to spend. I recently bought a 2016 Corvette, so I don't have the cash on hand right now to do her car as nice as I'd originally thought. She's plenty happy with the system (when the speakers are blown / torn) so I guess, for now, that's how I'm going. She'll have Android Auto, BT streaming, hands free calling, so she's thrilled already.
Both places put the price on gutting it, removing all the old equipment, and then adding in new speakers wiring, etc well above what I was looking to spend. I recently bought a 2016 Corvette, so I don't have the cash on hand right now to do her car as nice as I'd originally thought. She's plenty happy with the system (when the speakers are blown / torn) so I guess, for now, that's how I'm going. She'll have Android Auto, BT streaming, hands free calling, so she's thrilled already.
03-02-16, 03:20 PM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Ok, after discussing this with a couple respected car stereo shops in the Boston area, I'm going to repair / replace the stock speakers (fronts and back), and grab a Beatsonic MVA12L and swap in a Pioneer 4100NEX head unit. Both shops recommended keeping the ML systems as it stands is a pretty decently sounding system.
Both places put the price on gutting it, removing all the old equipment, and then adding in new speakers wiring, etc well above what I was looking to spend. I recently bought a 2016 Corvette, so I don't have the cash on hand right now to do her car as nice as I'd originally thought. She's plenty happy with the system (when the speakers are blown / torn) so I guess, for now, that's how I'm going. She'll have Android Auto, BT streaming, hands free calling, so she's thrilled already.
Both places put the price on gutting it, removing all the old equipment, and then adding in new speakers wiring, etc well above what I was looking to spend. I recently bought a 2016 Corvette, so I don't have the cash on hand right now to do her car as nice as I'd originally thought. She's plenty happy with the system (when the speakers are blown / torn) so I guess, for now, that's how I'm going. She'll have Android Auto, BT streaming, hands free calling, so she's thrilled already.
I highly recommend the backup camera! If you go that route, did you see how I powered the camera without cutting or splicing any wires?
03-03-16, 04:50 AM
#15
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I have two good shops around me who offered to install any parts I brought them. I'm very ok doing the wiring, soldering, and anything electrical, but I'm completely ham fisted when it comes to taking panels off, trim pieces, I can never seem to do them without breaking something.
That's ok, if it's something like my Tundra, which is just a work truck, but the SC is Wifey's "baby" and I'm loathe to mess up / scratch anything inside her car. Plus even for being an 03, it's still super clean and unblemished in the cabin. I don't want to change that.