FLYCT

OGreat tip. You jogged my memory. That's what I did to confirm loss of fuel pressure overnight when I had this problem with my 300ZX.

If I remember correctly, I turned ignition to right one click, waited 5 seconds then turned it to start. Doing that allowed engine to start normally since the 5 seconds allowed fuel pressure to build up before engaging starter.

Loss of pressure can be a check valve if installed, a leaking injector or a fuel pump.

Scott R

Hi guys. Reporting back with some added info in response to various questions asked...

Yes, my car has over 100K miles. I forget off hand, but I think it's right around 120K now.

Yes, I had the timing belt, serpentine belt, and water pump service done in May, 2013. I think I was pushing it and my mileage might have been close to 100K at the time. I see that they replaced 8 spark plugs at the same time (I don't remember if there was any issue or they just recommended it for some other reason). This was done by a non-Lexus shop near me that was highly rated and I liked, but I've since stopped using them because: a) The prices seemed to jack up a bit, and b) They botched something during the timing belt replacement (which I don't remember what it is now - I have to track that down - but since it was over 2 years ago, I don't think it's related to my current issue).

That same shop above also replaced my battery in Feb, 2013.

That same shop also replaced an oxygen sensor (I think just one) when I had a CEL (check engine light) in Jan, 2012.

I'm pretty sure I've had my brake pads replaced (not sure how many times), but I don't remember the last time I did that or the last time I had anyone check them.

And, of course, I've changed my tires as needed, but haven't had them rotated at regular intervals.

I've gotten my oil changed regularly, and have been using synthetic for some time (hopefully that's a good thing).

Beyond that, I haven't really done anything with the car, and I probably should have someone I trust do an overall inspection of various things, replace fluids, etc. I see that my owners manual mentions replacing the A/C filter a couple of times, which I'm pretty sure I've never done (not sure how important that really is), and at 120K miles it lists a bunch of extra things (brake fluid, engine air filter, engine coolant, spark plugs).

One last note: I haven't had any real problem starting the engine the last couple of days. Can't say for certain if it's requiring that I hold the key a bit longer than it used to. Someone asked if I had the CEL on, and the answer is 'No', *BUT* at one point when I had problems getting it started and I used the spray-on stuff, the CEL, DSC ON, and DSC OFF lights all went on. After disconnecting the battery, cleaning the terminals with the steel brush, and doing the reset procedure I read about with leaving the negative disconnected for 30 mins, the lights all went out and they haven't come back on (I think it's been at least 4 days now).

So despite getting all of the helpful replies, no one has commented yet as to what fixing the fuel pump might cost me (if it turns out that's got issues). Anyone have some idea on that?

Bgw70

Go try what I recommended in a previous post...about starting when cold.

Now read below...

AC air filter may make the air smell better, I change mine every 12k miles or so, but that is just me...

They changed the engine coolant when the timing belt and water pump were replaced, because they had to drain it to accomplish the job.

Brake fluid is a must, get it done soon...

Engine air filter must have been done at some point, if not the car may not run at all. It should be done every 10-15k miles or every third oil change, if you change the oil every 4k miles.

Synthetic is good stuff and you can run it for 8-10k miles but it is important to changed the oil filter every 4k miles.

Scott R

I just remembered something else I forgot to mention. I don't think it's related, but the problem *did* start around this same time. The fob built into my key started to crack (and come apart) right around the same time I started having the problem with the car taking longer to start. At one point, it pretty much snapped in half, and I started to use the valet key (in conjunction with keeping the taped-together fob on my keychain so that I could still unlock/lock the doors and open the trunk remotely).

At one point I did wonder if there was a chance that a proximity sensor of some sort was looking for a chip in the fob/key to be in place in the ignition and causing me some sort of issue, but I discounted that theory since: a) The car still started, it just took longer to start, and b) The valet key is meant to be given to someone without also giving them the full key/fob.

Anyway, I guess I also need to get my key replaced. I'm sure I can do some searching in the forums here for the recommended way to do that as cheaply as possible, but if anyone wants to spare me the work and just reply here with a suggestion, that would be great, too!

Scott R

Bgw70, I can certainly try what you recommended in a previous post, but since it's been starting up OK for me the last couple of days, I'm not sure if I'll be able to learn anything certain from it.

The Lexus manual seems to suggest changing the engine air filter every 30K miles. I have a feeling I haven't had that done in a long time. I'll check into that and the brake fluid.

Bgw70

Many guys that do their own work will NEVER go by the recommended service intervals. They are way too long. The AC filter, well that is your call. ;-)

If/when your SC acts up again, give it a try. FLYCT had a similar issue with his 300zx and I am having this issue with my Trans Am. I know it is the fuel pump leaking down over many hours because I checked it with a fuel pressure gauge. What you describe is similar but they are different cars.
I had a Nissan Pulsar, many moons ago, that did the same thing, turns out, it was a relay.

For now, catch up on your maintenance! If you take care of your car, it may never leave you stranded!

ShawnOk

iTrader: (1)

My 2002 has only 47,000 miles and I feel that it is the fuel pump as I stated earlier. I am pretty handy with my car and have done a lot of mods and usually have pretty spotless maintenance. I did have to change the serpentine belt. Also, I have not changed my timing belt, water pump, tensioner, etc, yet. I was also told that if you noticed hard shifts that it is an indication that the timing belt should be changed. My shift points are smooth and never notice any lag or jerks, so once that starts to appear I will think about the timing belt and the rest. I usually only have a starting problem once a month. I've noticed that it almost always occurs while at the Lexus Dealership at which the protocol is to pull into the bay, turn the car off, leave the key in the ignition so the attendant can get the mileage and VIN while I wait in the service adviser's office. Then when they try to start the car to move it forward in the queue or if I'm ready to leave, it will ALWAYS take more than one crank or a few pumps of the pedal to get the car started. This indicates to me that it is the fuel pump that is failing in my situation. As I feel that this is the same situation the OP is describing, I feel that he is having problems with the fuel pump also.

As I haven't had problems lately I haven't officially diagnosed it yet, but I plan to ask my mechanic to check the pressure in the fuel line as I recommended earlier next time I need service.

Scott R

Quick update. I had another occurrence of the issue yesterday. Had taken the car out (started OK) in the morning, went to breakfast, it sat out in the hot sun while we ate breakfast, and when I went back to the car it didn't want to start. Tried a couple of times, then waited a few minutes, and then got it to start OK. Will be bringing it over to the mechanic this week (assuming I can get it to start).

Scott R

Update: I brought my SC430 into the Lexus dealer recently to get the airbag recall done. There was a record on the file (that I had forgotten about) where I had a CEL come on nearly 2 years ago which a different Lexus dealer determined was due to a different local shop (I no longer use) screwing up my timing belt job and causing the cam sensor wiring to get damaged. That Lexus dealer patched it up at the time and I intended to get it fixed properly by the local shop but forgot about it and never had it done. So I went ahead and had my local Lexus dealer replace the cam sensor ($475 plus tax), but I'm still a little worried that the cause of my car starting problems might be the fuel pump. So far, it's started fine every time, but it still feels like it takes longer than it used to to turn over.

So, of course, while it was there they told me about a couple of other issues, which I should probably start up new threads for, but for now I'll piggy-back on this one...

The most critical one being the right upper ball joint being really loose. They quoted me $850, so I checked with the local shop I had recently started using and they told me that they would look at it and if it needed to be done, they could do it for at least a couple hundred less.

Side-note: After bringing my SC430 home from the dealer, I discovered that the parking brake release didn't feel like it used to. It used to make an audible pop when I'd release it and I could even feel the pop (spring?) in my hand when pulling the parking brake release. Now, it will release the brake but it's silent and I can't even feel anything (if there's a spring in there, it's like the spring broke). In fact, a couple of times I'll pull it and the brake light stays on. In those cases, pulling it again/harder seems to get the light to go off. Not sure what the Lexus dealer might have done that would cause that behavior. Is that something I should be worried about? And I'm wondering if it could have anything to do with my new issues...

So I brought my car to the local shop and they replaced the ball joint. When leaving, I see that my VSC, VSC OFF, and ABS lights are now on. So I go back inside and they tell me, "Yeah, I knew I was supposed to mention that to you. It's fine, you just need to drive around for about 20 miles for it to re-learn things" (or something like that). I told them, OK, I'll give that a shot and see how it goes. I had to go straight home (just a couple of miles) to get back to work. Later that evening, I took it back out, and the lights were still on. I drove about 15 miles total and the lights never went off. Started it up this morning and lights still on. Was the local shop correct and maybe I just need to drive it around some more?

I have a bad feeling that getting this done by the local shop is going to turn out to be a mistake and that I'm going to end up with some finger-pointing between the shop and the dealer about the parking brake issue.

Helogadget

It sounds like they put a code reader on it and now you need to recalibrate the VSC. No biggie, look for BGW's post about shorting the OBDII pins 4 and 14 with a paperclip. Bet you'll be good to go!

Scott R

I found one of those threads and bumped it. I didn't see any mention of the ABS light going in on that other thread, though, so that has me worried.

mandyfig

Suggest you unhook the battery for a couple of minutes and see if the ABS light turns off.

The VSC and VSC OFF can be cleared by the shorting of pins 4-14, using a paper clip (some of us have the VSC Off Tool, cost to make $3).

Scott R

Trying to short things with the paperclip didn't work for me. I brought it back to the local shop that did the ball joint work and after having it all day they just called me to tell me that the right front speed sensor was the culprit, which I'm guessing (from some searching here) they damaged when doing the ball joint job. The guy's a nice guy and when he gave me the news I think he was expecting me to push him to cover the entire expense. He told me that it was probably easily broken due to age. I asked him what it would cost to fix and he told me that he would just charge me his cost for the part plus tax (about $300), which I felt was fair (so long as it truly fixes the remaining issues).

I probably should have just had the Lexus dealer fix the ball joint while they had it. Tried to save $300 and now I'm still paying it.

Bgw70

It's too late now but I had a similar problem after my upper control arms were replaced. In my case, I pulled each of the front wheels, then the removed each speed sensor, only one screw in each, and found a little grease on them, I wiped the grease and reinstalled.
I also removed the battery terminal while I checked the speed sensors.
Anyway, when I put it back together, no more issues!

I suppose I was lucky, in your case maybe something actually broke.

Be sure to ask them for the old part.

Bgw70

One more thing, you may want to challenge the shop because Rockauto.com shows about 10 sensors and the most expensive one is $166.