Germancaraddict

From the looks of it the new SL500 is going to totally blow this Lexus out of the water. Before i start i do realize these cars have different price ranges and different purposes (lux cruiser for lexus and sports car for benz). But here are the reasons why I would consider the new SL superior.

The Lexus is a 4 passenger car. The rear seats are utterly useless and take up legroom for front passengers. The Mercedes SL is a pure 2-seater as any convertable should be

Length
Lexus is 177
Mercedes 178

Width
Lexus 72
Mercedes 71.5

Height 53.1
Mercedes 51.1

Aerodynamic drag coefficient .31
Mercedes drag is .29

Curb Weight= 3840
Benz 3894

Baiscally this shows that the Mercedes is slightly longer, not as wide, and much lowered to the ground then the SC, along with a slippier figure and same weights practically.

Headroom front: 37.2 rear 33.9
Front Mercedes 37.7 no rear

Legroom front: 43.6 rear: 27.1
Legroom front 45.1

Shoulder room front 53.8 rear 46.6
Shoulder room front 54

Despite the bloated look of the SC it has less headroom, shoulder room, and legroom then the new SL


Hp Benz 306
Lexus 300

Torque 339 Benz
Lexus 325

The Mercedes has slightly better numbers, but it also has an active suspension, better transmission, and less floaty ride.

Automatic Hardtop

25 seconds for operation in SC
16 seconds for operation in SL

Again an area where Lexus copies others designs (active cruise control etc) but really fails to offering any advancements.

Leather covered seats in SC, wood trim
Leather covered seats, dash, doors, headliner, instrument panel, and console, choice of wood or aluminum trim.

Inside both cars are extremely well opointed, the main difference is that the Mercedes is pure mercedes, with 95 percent of the interior being fine carpet, wood, aluminum, or leather. Whereas the lexus has gone to extreme measure to cover up the Toyota parts such as cheap looking gauges.


Nine-Speaker Mark Levinson Sound System

10-Speaker Bose Sound System with 100watt subwoofer

Here both cars are truely excellent with the Lexus perhaps bettering the SL in sound quality, but the SL wins in speaker placing with the addition of a center-fill speaker

Dual-zone automatic climate control with interior air filter, vent, smog sensor and auto recirculation in lexus
Dual-zone automatic climate control with interior air filter, charcoal filter, smog senson, sun sensor in benz

Again the Mercedes takes the common system and imporves upon it. Everything is filtered out of the air, and it can monitor the position of the sun and change the temp accordingly

10-way power seats in lexus, with heating
14-way power seats in Benz with heating, cooling, and massage

Here the mercedes vanquishes the Lexus in shear adjustablilt, and the bonus of not having a back seat.

Key Fob
Mercedes Smartkey with Rolling Code and Infared technology

Here is where the toyota heratige gets in the way. Lexus offers a standard security system, with standard key. Mercedes on the other hand has posibly the most sophisticated sytem on the planet. It has infared sensors on various parts of the car that work even when the top is down. It features an anti towing mechanism to stop the car from being moved. The SmartKey stores part of the engine computer so that the car cannot be hotwired. If the code is found by hackers it will not longer work as it functions on rolling-code technology. And for convienent purposes the key can not only lock unlock the door open the trunk but also close and lower the roof.
Lexus has no new technology

Lexus Vehicle Skid Control = Mercedes ASR Automatic Slip Reduction
Lexus Trac = Mercedes 10 year Electronic Skid Protection

Lexus ABS and EBD = Mercedes ABS and BAS Brake assists

Mercedes ABC actice suspension preventing roll, dive, pitch squat = Lexus does not offer

Mercedes SBC Electrohydraulic brakes =Lexus does not offer

Lexus HID lamps for low-beams, Mercedes has HID for low and high

In technology, Mercedes is ever supreme and lexus truely doesn't even come close. Mercedes has 4th generation stabilty styem that is not just present but always connected and working with an active suspension system, electrohydraulic brakes, and the engine computer, and accelerator imputs. Flat down the Mercedes has a better ride, better steering ,better handling, and much better brakes then the Lexus could ever dream of.

Lexus Navigation system

Mercedes COMAND System - integrates radio, cd, nav, telephone into one package

These are pretty much equal again. The mercedes system does have the convenience of integration of different sytems however.
Lexus normal front and side airbags = mercedes new Head-Thorax side airbags

And finally the Mercedes looks incredibly better then the SC430. The Lexus has a very thick waistline, that is further worsened by a tall ride high, and high roof. The front of the Lexus looks like a mix between an SLK and Audi TT, and the lack of a front facia also continues the think fat proportions. Again the thick fat wheel design does not help at all. And finally the rear of this car is just plain odd. The taillights look very last minute and too small to mach the rest of the car. The SL on the other hand has a very slim athletic look to it. The swin-speared side air intakes are simple yet give a sporty look. The front lamps are both dynamic and carry the brand image (which lexus is determined to never discover). The rear lights again are sporty yet smooth and rounded to match the curves of the sheetmetal. Overall my problem with the SC is that is was a failed attempt to copy the success of the SLK and Audi TT, and resulted in an extremely bland, overly mistaken japanese car.

Granted this is Lexus's first take on a roadster, but they have no right to go about flaunting it as a sports car which it isn't, or that it or its design is original. The folding hardtop has been around for years, and it fails to introduce ANY new technology.

THe Lexus SC430 is just another very nice luxury convertable, where as the new SL has already been called by Automobile magazine as the "most technologically advanced roadster on the planet, and one of the best to drive".

And just in case you don't believe in the new SL's athleticism read this :

‘The SL’s seamless surge of power from walking pace to three figures in remarkable’
‘Yes, it’s by far the fastest ground-coverer of the group in all and any conditions’
‘Its composure over any road surface is astounding’
‘ the cabin is superbly laid out’
‘Yes, the SL does give tactile feedback from all the right places’

‘Nothing in the group comes close to this cars all round ability’

'It’s contempt of camber and road surface are patently ridiculous’
‘reserves of grip that defy science’
‘arguably the most comfortable and supportive seats ever fitted to a road vehicle’
‘A car that will set benchmarks for years to come’
‘I know for certain that I’ve just driven the most accomplished two seater on the planet’


This was in a test with a a Jaguar XKR , Maserati Spyder, and M3, where the SL won hands down.

EVO

and one more just to sum it up

4Car Review of the SL500

5 out of 5 stars

SUMMARY:
For: Style, quality, convenience of roof, engineering, performance, handling, refinement.

Against: Not much. Smallish boot roof-down, less dramatic than some rivals.

Sum-up: Everything you'd expect a flagship Benz to be - and it's fun to drive, too.


4car rating

SUMMARY:
For: Build quality, integrity, Lexus aftersales support

Against: High price, hard ride, slightly bland, too civilised?

Sum-up: It's neither a real sports car nor a sumptuous luxury tourer, but it's supremely smart and sophisticated

_________

evictor

I agree with genearch. Style is strictly in the eye of the beholder, although I get far more favorable reaction to my 430 than I ever got with my SL. I agree that the backseat has no human function, but it comes in handy as additional trunk capacity. Also, the backseat qualifies the car as a coupe for insurance purposes, rather than a sports car which reduced my insurance.

TOPLEXS

Thanks for the informative, but slightly biased report of the fantastic soon to be available new SL.
Automobile magazine has done a beautiful article on it where they commented...
Curb weight was 4,068 lbs!!!
Fuel mileage only 10.6 mpg!!!
Too much wind noise at speed.
Lazy sluggish transmission kickdown.
0-60 only 6.3, even with a much larger engine 5.0 vs 4.3 for Lexus. Even their companioned tested Subaru was faster.
The radio needs to be adjusted with the difficult to use COMMAND system. Simple volume control **** is perferred.
Even at +$85,000 18" wheels are still an option.
No run flat tires available.
Styling is rather bland. No new ground broken here. (Wheels look better though)
Car suspension is run by a 2,300 psi high pressure hydraulic system. Can't be cheap to maintain.$$$$$$$.

In a pinch you can put 2 people in back seat. Might not be comfy, but in a pinch. Also is a nice place for our Golden Retriever (Diogee) to ride. Buckle him in when the top is down.

Hope Mercedes finally gets rid of their rock hard seats. Interior looked vastly improved, but still not nearly as beautiful as Lexus

I guess it just depends on what way you look at the car.
The nice thing is we get our choice. Both are fantastic cars, and very enjoyable to drive.

biggie27

for a car with alot of horsepower the SL500 is awfully slow 6.3 is a joke considering its about 40 pounds heavier than the SC430, but it also has 6 more ponies and 14lbs of torque you would think it would be as fast if not faster than the SC430 but instead it slower, not only is it slower it has smaller and lighter rims than the SC430, now emagine the SC430 with 17" rims and some good preformance tyres, or better yet emagine a SC430 with a supercharger, some coilovers, and some nice 20" rims. That would be a 500hp monster that even mercedes SL55 AMG wouldn't be able to handle

Germancaraddict

LOL from what the mags have been saying the new SL is anything but slow. First of all the 6.3 rating is to 100kmp which equals not 0-60 but 0-62mph. thus that would be roughtly 6.0, 6.1 to 60 here. Secondly Mercedes is known for putting out conservative test numbers. Example the SLK32 AMG is quotted at 5.0 to 60 yet hit in in 4.5 in a Car and Driver test. And quite frankly 0-60 doesn't show a car's true performace. Not enough well how about the fact that the new SL "explodes forward above 70 mph, barely running out of urge until the electronics kick in at 155 mph. Secondly the Lexus has been criticized by many professionals for have "Lexus-numb" steering, and beeing a "luxury coupe" rather than roadster. Quite frankly the SC430 has its strong points but driving dynamics and speed are not one of them. The SL500 is a car that has power all over the place, and can hit 155mph in not only 5 but also 4th gear. And finally remember that the SC430 doesn't have a supercharger and won't have one. Even if it did, the car simply lackes the body to work with an engine as powerful as the SL55's. No active suspension, no electrohyraulic brakes, I hardly think the SC430 could ever be seen as a sports car. And quite frankly the SC430 is the kind of car that needs to be "souped-up" or modified to get any true recognition as its still a Toyota. You can like the SC430 for its looks, its ride, its luxury, and its sound system, but it will never hold a candle to the new SL's presige, handling, or dynamics.

Manaray

Prestige? Hmmm, Mercedes aren't that prestigious to me...and it's not like my family hasn't owned a few...never really impressed me...

And considering the price difference, I think it's MORE than fair to have a "modified" SC430 compare to a stock SL...and ESPECIALLY compared to a AMG SL55...

And what's wrong with Lexus cars being Toyotas? It's really funny how "German" car enthusiasts seem to point that out like it's a bad thing...the fact of the matter is, a Toyota is more reliable than anything from Germany...so how is that bad?

And with a engine that's 0.7 liters larger (that's almost a Civic! ), it only makes 6 more HP and 14 more lbs of torque? Wonder what Toyota Engineers could do with an extra 0.7 liters....how about that SUPER friendly COMAND system and super hot sound system?

Let's be realistic...how many SL buyers are going to really rip in up? And with all the wizbang technology behind the SL, will it seriously spank a SC430 on the track or in a nice canyon? I doubt it...

The Ikon

Hey, guys.... I have a very, very, very, very simple question...

Why did Lexus hit a homerun on the 1st time at bat with the SC430? It took MB DECADES to finally get it right and he has the NERVE to brag....

I think the new SL is a sweet looking car; however the Jag XK8 is by far the best looking convertible in the US or anywhere for that matter... Maserati thinks so too when they copied the Jag's styling...

**Gene, posted the best measuring stick for any car purchase...

Germancaraddict

The SC430 will never spank a SL500. I think Motor Trend sums it up very nicely "About the only dynamic downside to the Sc430 is that it never tingles your sproting synapses very much. Competent? Definintely. Luxurious? Absolutly. Exhilarating? Not unless you turn up the stereo." I just strong feel that for the money I would want to buy a car with more charecter then then SC430, which is basically a cloned design. Its a great car, fast, luxorious, well-built, but it just lacks a charisma for the price range. And its numb handling, and seden like ride don't exactly help. And as for the larger engine, you should look closer for its purposes. The SC430 gets 325 lb-ft of torque AT 3400rpm. The SL however has 339lb-ft of torque ALL THE WAY from 2650rpm up until 4250. Its the constant platue of torque that truely rockets the SL once around 60 all the way up to its limiter. Thus 0-60 tests don't always tell all. I just want to stress again that these cars, although supposed to be competitors, appeal to very different buyers. The SC gives people a very technically simple car that will ensure durabilty at the expense of exhileration. It functions for as a grand-tourer alike the last Sl, unlike the new SL which was made to be aimed at true sports cars. And lastly I do agree with beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

TOPLEXS

Mr Addict.
It is obvious by your post that you have driven neither of these cars. You have formed your biased opinion vicariously through the readings from various automobile magazines. This has gotten you into a "mine is better than yours" sniveling.

Don't understand why you would come to a Lexus board and brag to us, who actually own these fantastic cars, that some soon to be released unobtainable Daimler-Chrysler is a better vehicle because it has 14 way adjustable seats, and not just 10 way adjustable seats.

Mercedes has lost much of it's carisma when it moved down market, and abandoned it's prestige by becoming just another taxi cab manufacturer.

It's new SL has garnered much of its styling from the much cheaper SLC. (SLC=Like a SL, but Cheaper). Just as Porche has diminished it's 911 by styling it like it's cheaper brother the Boxster.

Sorry, but new SL will be just like the older ones. A great ride for rich older Geezers to ride around in showing off their new younger girlfriends.

Yes the car magazines will praise the car for it's technical prowess, as they do not have to spend the $100,000.00 to get it out the door, and be aggravated taking it constantly back into the shop to get the da** thing running right.

Guy next door to me bought the first S500 in San Diego. While it is a beautiful car, it has been in the shop more than on the road to fix all the glitches. Hope the new SL is far more reliable.

PS. He went right out and bought a new SC430 (Red) the week after taking a ride in my SC 430. Said it was far more luxurious, and refined.

The Ikon

That's what I said until I actually road in one...

Germancar, come back next year and post your vin# and 3 0r 4 other SL vin#'s I'll get 2Savvy, Manaray, RodF, SilSC430, TopLx, Gene or ANY of these guys vin# and we will call the dealer and get a service report. Let's see how many times you have to take your big bad Benz back to the dealer for problems......

Are you up to the challenge? Hell let's check it 6 months after you own it... Or 8K miles... I bet the house it will be in the shop at least 5 times or more!

I'll take one if I won it in a lottery however!!! Just to damn expensive to own.. I guess if you can afford it you can afford the outrageous maintenance!!!

Germancaraddict

First of all i would like to say that I own a 1999 SL500 in Obsidian Black and tested the new SC430 around in several manufactor's driving events. As for you mention on the seats I was not saying that it makes it a better car. I was trying to point out how the SC fiailed to bring any advancements to the convertable world whats so ever. Yes I do agree with many magazine editors as they have driven thousands of top end cars and truely undertands what it means for a car to be great. However I do try not to rely on one source and instead try to form my opionions on my own experiences combined with the an overview of data i have aquired. And the fact that Mercedes is a supplier for taxi cabs proves something that you have been saying bragging about from the beginning - reliability.
You mention the SLC (which does not exist) so i gather you mean SLK. And yes it does share certain design element with the new SL. This is in keeping with a brand image, which Lexus has desperatly tried to create in the past years. I don't see how a car that is already known as the most "Technologically advanced roadster on earth, and one of the best to drive" will be for old geezers.
You are right in saying that newer mercedes have had technical problems. However this is what happens when you pioneer NEW ground in the automotive world. My SL has only been in the shop once for a side window adjustment which was fixed in less then two days. Don't make assumptions on things you don't know. Im not trying to dis your car but saying that its horrible, just saying that there is a new, possibly improved option before purchasing an SC. From the test drives i have done in it I think its incredibly luxurious quiet and competant car. It just lacks a driver involvement that is critical in this price range. I apologize for seeming so biased. Its just that I feel this car is the first true improvement in the roadster world in a long time and I will most lickely be selling my SL for this car.

TOPLEXS

"lickely"???

In Italy they use Alfa Romero's for taxi cabs...Reliable..Yeah Right!

Germancaraddict

You will have to overlook my typing errors as don't check my posts. I didn't mean to start a quarrel so I think its best this thread is ended. What it comes down to is "different strokes for different folkes". Both are great cars, with different personalities. If I had enough money I would possibly consider even getting one. Just wanted to show that the SC430 is not the only great luxury convertable out there, and others exist with more personality. Including the Maserati Spyder, Jaguar XKR, BMW Z8, Porsche 911, and Audi TT. Keep your eyes open to all thats out there and then make a decision.

The Ikon

Yes you did! If not you would not have started a post the way you started this thread! You made it specific not general...

I give great props when it is due! The SL is going to be good and innovative. So is the Lexus in treading new waters... The Jag is beautiful... The Porsche is the S*** when it comes to sport cars... etc...

Enjoy your new SL and post some pics when you get it...

Manaray

At least Addict kept his/her composure...more than what I can for some of the other "brand loyal" folks that have pass through here (BMW, American, Maxima, etc...)...I can respect that.

Yes, the SL does give buyers another option but let's face it, it's hard to compare the two when the price gap is HUGE...and you KNOW the SL will have a nice little "market adjustment" add-on (like the SC430 did) that will make the gap even larger....

Personally, if I won the lotto (and it would have to be the BIG one) I would take a Bentley Azure Mulliner in Sapphire Blue with a White Leather interior... Of course, this would not be my only convertible coupe...I would have a few others...

Since I'm a big believer in aftermarket parts, I think you should look at your budget (say $80K) and see what you can buy...and at $80K, I'm sure I could buy a SC430 and add a few parts that would allow me to SMOKE a SL55 (in terms of handling, speed, 0-60, 0-100, 100-0, 60-0, track, canyon, etc.)...and RELIABLY...what do you get with $80K on a SL? Hmmm, you can't even get a BASE model SL500 for that price...

Comparing cars regardless of price is sort pointless because let's face it, if we don't need to look at the price tags, then we can afford to buy BOTH. I mean is the SL truly $20K+ more of a car than a SC430? I don't think so....the 3-pointed star doesn't give me a $20K hard-on...

The LEAST Mercedes could do is just admit that their COMAND system sucks beyond belief and change it to something USABLE...I would not buy ANY Mercedes with the COMAND system unless they gave it to me free...and even then I'd take it to my buddy's stereo shop and have it complete castrated...then I would sell it to some sucker on eBay and have a aftermarket navigation/multimedia system put in (even if it just a simple NAV/DVD/Screen headunit with a couple amps and some replacement speakers...and a sub)

What's with Germans and their pathetic sound/nav systems? I remember my uncle's Becker sound system in his $80,000 Mercedes...my $14,000 Honda Accord system was better!