Timing Belt
05-04-15, 08:29 AM
#1
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Timing Belt
I bought a 2002 SC430 in March 2015. The car has 48,000 miles. The car never had the timing belt changed so, out of an abundance of caution, I changed the belt at my local Lexus dealer. The replaced belt looked brand new and the dealer said it probably would have been fine. My next belt change will be based on mileage and not years.
05-04-15, 08:47 AM
#2
Still think you did the right thing though. The consequences if the belt had not been fine would have been catastrophic. I did mine at a good indy shop last year at 70 k miles due to years and not miles. My belt looked ok too but peace of mind is worth it.
05-04-15, 09:26 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Agreed, changing the belt is good preventive maintenance.
BTW, how much did it cost and what did they replace besides the belt?
BTW, how much did it cost and what did they replace besides the belt?
05-04-15, 06:48 PM
#4
Definitely a good approach. Ever wonder why the Xerox machine in the office always needs service but the laser printer on your desk never does even though they're pretty much the same technology? In the copier the parts get replaced when they break. In the laser printer they get replaced with every toner cartridge change (the cartridge includes all the normal things that break in the photocopier). Same thing with airplanes - replace the parts based on hours and you almost never replace a broken or worn part but the plane can fly for 50 years.
One of the problems with replacing parts after they break is they usually do some collateral damage at the same time even if it's only a bunch of extra stress on other parts in the same system. That then helps those other parts break sooner and costs more in the long run.
One of the problems with replacing parts after they break is they usually do some collateral damage at the same time even if it's only a bunch of extra stress on other parts in the same system. That then helps those other parts break sooner and costs more in the long run.
05-11-15, 03:38 PM
#5
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Timing Belt
I have a 2006 Sc430 with just under 60,000K. I bought it last October. I was able to talk to the previous owner. He had not changed the belt.The car has never been winter driven and has always been kept in a garage. Just for the peace of mind I am having the belt water pump and other related parts changed. This is going to cost approx $1100.00. The belt will probably be fine but just for the peace of mind I think that it will be worth the price!
03-08-16, 12:38 AM
#6
IMO 99% of these belts can go beyond 200k miles, these timing belts are highly engineered and the material is like mixed metal and rubber, its the water pump that fails before the timing belt, and if the water pump goes then so does the timing belt.
03-08-16, 04:59 AM
#7
I always find that statement interesting. That seems to be the prevailing opinion here and when I did my belt I changed the pump and idlers also. However, when you ask a Lexus service consultant, they do not replace the pump the same time as the belt. They indicate they inspect and replace if necessary. I would hope that they would know better than us. They must have ultimate confidence in their water pumps.
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03-08-16, 08:22 AM
#8
Only one in one-thousand service advisors are worth their weight in salt. Most have little or no mechanical knowledge of the specific car in question. And because they are paid employees, one would expect them to only repeat what they are told to say and to faithfully espouse the manufacturer's or dealer's mantra, whatever the brand is.
And the dealer service department can't totally be blamed as the timing belt replacement procedure in the Lexus SC430 factory service manual recommends testing the water pump by manually spinning it, and leaving it in place if it seems to spin freely. Who knows why Toyota would recommend this.
However, given the consequences of the water pump or an idler pulley failing and breaking the belt, you would hope that at some point common sense would take hold and dealers (and especially independent mechanics) would reflect on:
1.The failure rate of water pumps and pulley bearings across all of the auto industry, independent of brand (do many last to the recommended mileage or age of the second timing belt change)
2. The tiny cost of the water pump and bearings in relationship to the magnitude of the job (paid labor or your own sweat) to get to the belt to replace it.
But be realistic. The lion's share of a dealer's profit is made in the service department, not selling cars. The dealer's job is not to save you time and/or money. That is your job as the owner.
And the dealer service department can't totally be blamed as the timing belt replacement procedure in the Lexus SC430 factory service manual recommends testing the water pump by manually spinning it, and leaving it in place if it seems to spin freely. Who knows why Toyota would recommend this.
However, given the consequences of the water pump or an idler pulley failing and breaking the belt, you would hope that at some point common sense would take hold and dealers (and especially independent mechanics) would reflect on:
1.The failure rate of water pumps and pulley bearings across all of the auto industry, independent of brand (do many last to the recommended mileage or age of the second timing belt change)
2. The tiny cost of the water pump and bearings in relationship to the magnitude of the job (paid labor or your own sweat) to get to the belt to replace it.
But be realistic. The lion's share of a dealer's profit is made in the service department, not selling cars. The dealer's job is not to save you time and/or money. That is your job as the owner.
03-08-16, 06:16 PM
#9
Pole Position
I hate to bring the car to the dealer. The service managers have the daily or monthly quota to meet, therefore, they will recommend to replace the parts that would be fine for sometime. This especially true with female customer due to their lack of knowledge in automobile mechanical problems.
03-09-16, 07:36 AM
#10
A few things on this. In all my years I haven't seen a belt driven water pump seize up except one that has from sitting and rusting. Changing the water pump at the time of timing belt Change is about not having to do or pay for all the labor involved to change it. This after you went through it all to put a new timing belt on. The tensioner is the weak link. It weakens allows slake in the belt which can cause skipping or chewing off belt teeth. This is true with timing chains that use tensioners too.
Dealers and shops have to walk two lines one if they suggest replacing preemptive a part that is working fine people say they are gouging me. They other is yes they can get paid twice for basically the same job on a certain percentage of the time. It's not easy having a shop and trying to keep everyone happy even when your honest.
Dealers and shops have to walk two lines one if they suggest replacing preemptive a part that is working fine people say they are gouging me. They other is yes they can get paid twice for basically the same job on a certain percentage of the time. It's not easy having a shop and trying to keep everyone happy even when your honest.
03-09-16, 08:12 PM
#11
Pole Position
The mechanic at the independent shop that I go to pretty hornets . He would tell you what you should be replaced and what can wait. Unlike dealer, he will not double charge you if one job done and other job does not require to disassemble to replace the part. That is why I hate to take car to the dealer for service.
03-09-16, 09:26 PM
#12
I always find that statement interesting. That seems to be the prevailing opinion here and when I did my belt I changed the pump and idlers also. However, when you ask a Lexus service consultant, they do not replace the pump the same time as the belt. They indicate they inspect and replace if necessary. I would hope that they would know better than us. They must have ultimate confidence in their water pumps.
04-04-16, 05:30 AM
#15
Only one in one-thousand service advisors are worth their weight in salt. Most have little or no mechanical knowledge of the specific car in question. And because they are paid employees, one would expect them to only repeat what they are told to say and to faithfully espouse the manufacturer's or dealer's mantra, whatever the brand is.
And the dealer service department can't totally be blamed as the timing belt replacement procedure in the Lexus SC430 factory service manual recommends testing the water pump by manually spinning it, and leaving it in place if it seems to spin freely. Who knows why Toyota would recommend this.
However, given the consequences of the water pump or an idler pulley failing and breaking the belt, you would hope that at some point common sense would take hold and dealers (and especially independent mechanics) would reflect on:
1.The failure rate of water pumps and pulley bearings across all of the auto industry, independent of brand (do many last to the recommended mileage or age of the second timing belt change)
2. The tiny cost of the water pump and bearings in relationship to the magnitude of the job (paid labor or your own sweat) to get to the belt to replace it.
But be realistic. The lion's share of a dealer's profit is made in the service department, not selling cars. The dealer's job is not to save you time and/or money. That is your job as the owner.
And the dealer service department can't totally be blamed as the timing belt replacement procedure in the Lexus SC430 factory service manual recommends testing the water pump by manually spinning it, and leaving it in place if it seems to spin freely. Who knows why Toyota would recommend this.
However, given the consequences of the water pump or an idler pulley failing and breaking the belt, you would hope that at some point common sense would take hold and dealers (and especially independent mechanics) would reflect on:
1.The failure rate of water pumps and pulley bearings across all of the auto industry, independent of brand (do many last to the recommended mileage or age of the second timing belt change)
2. The tiny cost of the water pump and bearings in relationship to the magnitude of the job (paid labor or your own sweat) to get to the belt to replace it.
But be realistic. The lion's share of a dealer's profit is made in the service department, not selling cars. The dealer's job is not to save you time and/or money. That is your job as the owner.