Gave in and bought MeisterR Coilovers
02-19-15, 08:50 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
You do NOT need to take off the wheel to adjust. The damper adjust sits on top of the coilover. In the front, just pop the hood and they are right there. In the rear I had to cut a hole through the carpet, but it was no big deal. Super easy and super fun! Nobody mentioned anything about the camber.
02-20-15, 05:46 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I see you are new to the world of coilovers. No problem. I had the same questions not long ago.
Adjustable coilovers are designed to alter both ride stiffness and height. Ride stiffness is easy to adjust and requires no mechanical skills. You just turn a **** right or left. Making the coilovers stiffer will theoretically reduce body roll and improve handling. Some people even suggest increased stiffness will improve track times. However the down side is that there will be significantly increased vibration transmitted to the cabin and reduced ride quality.
Softer coilover settings provide the opposite. Improved ride but somewhat more body roll. It's just a matter of preference, and that's what makes coilovers fun. You can adapt the ride to your taste preference.
Ride height is another story. You need to use a special wrench and adjust wash coilover one at a time. Although it is not difficult, from what I have seen it takes a good amount of time and a degree of accuracy to get the propper height.
Lower ride heights should improve handling due to a lower center of gravity, while increasing stiffness due to the springs having less space to travel. People also like adjusting ride hiieght lower because it looks aggressive. In my opinion I like the lowered look, but I'm not sure if I want my car scrapping over bumps. I also prefer a softer ride. For now , I'm at stock height. Maybe in the future I will drop the car one inch, but no more.
Does that help?
Adjustable coilovers are designed to alter both ride stiffness and height. Ride stiffness is easy to adjust and requires no mechanical skills. You just turn a **** right or left. Making the coilovers stiffer will theoretically reduce body roll and improve handling. Some people even suggest increased stiffness will improve track times. However the down side is that there will be significantly increased vibration transmitted to the cabin and reduced ride quality.
Softer coilover settings provide the opposite. Improved ride but somewhat more body roll. It's just a matter of preference, and that's what makes coilovers fun. You can adapt the ride to your taste preference.
Ride height is another story. You need to use a special wrench and adjust wash coilover one at a time. Although it is not difficult, from what I have seen it takes a good amount of time and a degree of accuracy to get the propper height.
Lower ride heights should improve handling due to a lower center of gravity, while increasing stiffness due to the springs having less space to travel. People also like adjusting ride hiieght lower because it looks aggressive. In my opinion I like the lowered look, but I'm not sure if I want my car scrapping over bumps. I also prefer a softer ride. For now , I'm at stock height. Maybe in the future I will drop the car one inch, but no more.
Does that help?
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jszachar (01-21-22)
02-21-15, 12:32 PM
#21
Thanks. That clears up a lot for me. So, in order to adjust the height you have to remove each wheel to do it and to adjust damper you don't have to remove the wheels?
02-21-15, 05:56 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
That is correct. For example, yesterday I adjusted the damper in my car three times; in front of my house, in my garage at work, and even at walmart. It is literally that easy. But adjusting height you have to take off each wheel one at a time, crank the wrench, and measure and test. There are a lot of videos on YouTube about it.
02-27-15, 08:59 AM
#23
Tein CST
Since Nov'06 I've had Tein CST with the in-cabin EDFC controller that sits in the lower console box. Nice arrangement. EDFC has 16 settings. I think my daily-driver setting is 8 in the front and 6 in the rear. It has 3 settable memory buttons.
Only had one problem with a leaking seal in a rear unit 2 years ago. Shock sections are repairable, but I had to buy a new shock, since I couldn't be out of service waiting for a shock rebuild. So, now if (when) another one leaks, I'll have one that can be rebuilt.
My CST spring rates now are 9 / 8 (front/rear). The CST originally came with 7 / 6, and weren't stiff enough.
Stock SC430 spring rates were 4.8 / 5.8 in 2002.
Fyi, the older Tein CS system had spring rates of 10 / 6.
Installed Daizen Sway Bars in 2006. Right side end holes on 19mm rear one blew out in 20012, and so I reinstalled the stock one. Just finished installing the 17mm ISF one last weekend. Will need to drive to determine is current shock settings need to be changed.
LexBrett, keep making those mods!
Only had one problem with a leaking seal in a rear unit 2 years ago. Shock sections are repairable, but I had to buy a new shock, since I couldn't be out of service waiting for a shock rebuild. So, now if (when) another one leaks, I'll have one that can be rebuilt.
My CST spring rates now are 9 / 8 (front/rear). The CST originally came with 7 / 6, and weren't stiff enough.
Stock SC430 spring rates were 4.8 / 5.8 in 2002.
Fyi, the older Tein CS system had spring rates of 10 / 6.
Installed Daizen Sway Bars in 2006. Right side end holes on 19mm rear one blew out in 20012, and so I reinstalled the stock one. Just finished installing the 17mm ISF one last weekend. Will need to drive to determine is current shock settings need to be changed.
LexBrett, keep making those mods!
02-27-15, 11:53 AM
#24
TXFM: having a similar set-up for about two years, you mention you changed the spring rate on the Tein. Did that reduce the body roll enough that you don't have the bouncy feeling? And can you tell me please how that was done?
Thanks
Thanks
02-27-15, 01:02 PM
#25
I don't have a bouncy ride, but it is definitely firmer. You will probably need to play with your shock adjustments to find the right setting for you if you decide to change springs.
All the springs (front & rear) on my setup are Tein 65mm Inner Diameter springs.
The front springs are rated at 9 kgf/mm. The Front Spring Length is 250mm as are the normal Tein CST Springs. The Stroke is 141mm (Tein CST normal is 148mm). I don't know what stroke length the stock front ones have. The Tein p/n for the Front springs is SM090-01250.
Rear Springs are 8 kgf/mm. Rear Spring length is 300mm. Stroke is 156mm - different than the normal Tein CST rear springs that have a Stroke of 176mm. Tein p/n for Rear springs is SK080-01300.
On this page, look at "Straight Springs" for a listing of the 65mm I.D. springs options:
tein.com/products/standard_spring_price_list.html
You probably want to discuss any changes with others who may do work for you.
All the springs (front & rear) on my setup are Tein 65mm Inner Diameter springs.
The front springs are rated at 9 kgf/mm. The Front Spring Length is 250mm as are the normal Tein CST Springs. The Stroke is 141mm (Tein CST normal is 148mm). I don't know what stroke length the stock front ones have. The Tein p/n for the Front springs is SM090-01250.
Rear Springs are 8 kgf/mm. Rear Spring length is 300mm. Stroke is 156mm - different than the normal Tein CST rear springs that have a Stroke of 176mm. Tein p/n for Rear springs is SK080-01300.
On this page, look at "Straight Springs" for a listing of the 65mm I.D. springs options:
tein.com/products/standard_spring_price_list.html
You probably want to discuss any changes with others who may do work for you.
01-06-16, 01:20 AM
#26
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Ride height vs. stiffness
I am very interested this discussion, and will add a new post with some questions.
01-06-16, 03:04 AM
#27
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Suspension Questions. Caution - long wordy post!
I recently acquired a 2006 SC to replace my totaled 2001 Porsche Boxster S (an inattentive driver came charging out of her driveway). While I realize Lexus will never be a Porsche, I'd like to improve on its handling (reference Top Gear's "The Worst Car in the History of the World").
The PO installed Ksport Pros shortly before he sold it to me. I have the original suspension units. The Ksports are very stiff, particularly the fronts: 18.6 kg/mm or over 1000 psi/in. The rears are 9.8 kg./549 psi. The car corners very flat, as you might expect, but has has very abrupt motions when transversing what I would term swales on the open highway at speed, (70 mph or so) putting my head against the roof at times.
It would be nice if I could install Bilstein H16s (PSS10), but they are not listed for the SC. Others posters have claimed that GS300/400 (GS 2nd generation) shock/spring assemblies are a bolt in on the SC, but again, no H16 listing for the GS. As a reference, the SC weighs about 100 lbs. more than the GS, but is better balanced -53/47 vs. 54/46 f/r. The Bilstein H14s are listed for the GS, but these units have no compression/rebound adjustments on the shocks. One advantage of the Bilsteins over any other coilovers that I have seen is that they feature progressive springs, easing the ride in smoother terrain.
Further clouding the interchangeability issue is the fact that while KSport lists the GS400 Pros as having the same spring rates as those for the GS, they list different part numbers for the two applications. If the GS is a bolt in, why the different P/Ns? I'm not certain can get a definitive answer from KSport. I read one post in which the poster claimed the GS bump stops have to be shortened 1 1/2" to be used on the SC, and that Bilstein had built him custom rears with shorter rods and valve bodies.
Another option would be replacing the unforgiving springs on the KSports with lower rate Swift springs. Perhaps I could move the existing KSport rear 9.8 kg/mm springs to the front and install Swift 6 or 7s on the rears. I notice that MeisterR uses 7 kg fronts and 6 kg rears on their SC application. I could then install the Fig supplied 30mm front sway bar and the 17mm IS-F rear bar to counter the increased roll from the softer springs.
My goal is a moderate drop, say about 20/25 mm, and have no desire to have future height adjustability. Would H/R lowering springs and Bilstein sport shocks (again, listed for the GS) be a good solution? That's what I have on my 2001 BMW 330Ci, and they seem to work well. Of course that's BMW and this is Lexus. BTW, H&R only list lowering springs for the 2002-2004 models, I have never heard of any difference in the suspension for 2005 up (except perhaps softer factory springs).
Any opinions/suggestions/corrections?
The PO installed Ksport Pros shortly before he sold it to me. I have the original suspension units. The Ksports are very stiff, particularly the fronts: 18.6 kg/mm or over 1000 psi/in. The rears are 9.8 kg./549 psi. The car corners very flat, as you might expect, but has has very abrupt motions when transversing what I would term swales on the open highway at speed, (70 mph or so) putting my head against the roof at times.
It would be nice if I could install Bilstein H16s (PSS10), but they are not listed for the SC. Others posters have claimed that GS300/400 (GS 2nd generation) shock/spring assemblies are a bolt in on the SC, but again, no H16 listing for the GS. As a reference, the SC weighs about 100 lbs. more than the GS, but is better balanced -53/47 vs. 54/46 f/r. The Bilstein H14s are listed for the GS, but these units have no compression/rebound adjustments on the shocks. One advantage of the Bilsteins over any other coilovers that I have seen is that they feature progressive springs, easing the ride in smoother terrain.
Further clouding the interchangeability issue is the fact that while KSport lists the GS400 Pros as having the same spring rates as those for the GS, they list different part numbers for the two applications. If the GS is a bolt in, why the different P/Ns? I'm not certain can get a definitive answer from KSport. I read one post in which the poster claimed the GS bump stops have to be shortened 1 1/2" to be used on the SC, and that Bilstein had built him custom rears with shorter rods and valve bodies.
Another option would be replacing the unforgiving springs on the KSports with lower rate Swift springs. Perhaps I could move the existing KSport rear 9.8 kg/mm springs to the front and install Swift 6 or 7s on the rears. I notice that MeisterR uses 7 kg fronts and 6 kg rears on their SC application. I could then install the Fig supplied 30mm front sway bar and the 17mm IS-F rear bar to counter the increased roll from the softer springs.
My goal is a moderate drop, say about 20/25 mm, and have no desire to have future height adjustability. Would H/R lowering springs and Bilstein sport shocks (again, listed for the GS) be a good solution? That's what I have on my 2001 BMW 330Ci, and they seem to work well. Of course that's BMW and this is Lexus. BTW, H&R only list lowering springs for the 2002-2004 models, I have never heard of any difference in the suspension for 2005 up (except perhaps softer factory springs).
Any opinions/suggestions/corrections?
01-06-16, 04:43 PM
#28
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Response to Coleroad's suggestions
Coleroad, thanks for your detailed response. it came to me in a Email, I do not yet see it in the thread. I've already initiated many of the actions you suggest. A few I was not familiar with. As a preamble, I was on the phone with technical support from FIG, FEAL, KSport, D2, KW (US), Swift, Bilstein (US), Megan and BC this morning. I'll relay their responses below, after each of you points.
"Long story short. You're going to need to adjust the damper settings till you get what your looking for. Start soft and move in increments towards stiffer..." Did that this am on the fronts, but went the other way. They were 5 clicks from the firmest, moved them down to 11. Now I have to remove the rear carpet and access the rears.
"The sc is never going to to take that nice controlled set in a turn like the boater or BMW". Understand. I was going to get a replacement Boxster, but was tired of the maintenance headaches on the older German cars I can afford.
"You can help settle the rear end with aluminum rear sub frame bushing caps". Not familiar with these. Do you have a source (FIG?).
"1000 lbs. front springs sounds crazy if that's what they are". Confirmed with KSport verbally and on their website, as well with their clone D2 which have identical spring rates. KSport STRONGLY recommended I not lower the spring rates, as they are "necessary for that heavy car".
"I wish I knew the factory spring rates". I saw 5.5 kg. or thereabouts quoted somewhere.
"I think you would be happier to put the stock springs on. Get the blistien rear and keyboard front shocks". Bilstein claims they have nothing for my car and can't comment on using items designed for other applications (the lawyers talking). Not familiar with Keyboard. Source?
"Get the figs front and rear sway bar". Talked to FIG today and earlier. The front will work, but the straight rear designed for the SC300/400 has interference. Plan to use the IS-F 17mm bar. FIG can supply with necessary bits to fit the SC.
"Poly bushings up front". Just got all the Daizen bushing sets from Todd (TM Engineering).
"Add more camber front and rear. That extra camber isn't going to change tire wear much".
Understand. My 1986 635Csi has almost 3 degrees at the rear, and I'm into the wear bars before the inner corners reach the danger point.
"Just as long as you have toe within specified range". Yep. The PO just had the dealer replace the right caster control arm (#2 lower) during the alignment as part of the 90,000 mile service because of a worn bushing. They said they inspected the left. I'll keep my eye on it, including tire wear monitoring. (They also replaced the timing belt)
At this point I'm planning the following:
Install the stiffer sway bars
Adjust the shock units
Install (and lube) the Daizen bushings (which include steering rack bushings)
The next step might be to install lower rate Swift springs (say 10-12 fronts and 7-8 rears) If I were to reinstall the stock units, I'd like to go with lowering spring and quality shocks, but don't have a source for either. H&R lists their springs for the 2002-2004 model years only, can't explain why the later years are excluded.
Thanks again!
"Long story short. You're going to need to adjust the damper settings till you get what your looking for. Start soft and move in increments towards stiffer..." Did that this am on the fronts, but went the other way. They were 5 clicks from the firmest, moved them down to 11. Now I have to remove the rear carpet and access the rears.
"The sc is never going to to take that nice controlled set in a turn like the boater or BMW". Understand. I was going to get a replacement Boxster, but was tired of the maintenance headaches on the older German cars I can afford.
"You can help settle the rear end with aluminum rear sub frame bushing caps". Not familiar with these. Do you have a source (FIG?).
"1000 lbs. front springs sounds crazy if that's what they are". Confirmed with KSport verbally and on their website, as well with their clone D2 which have identical spring rates. KSport STRONGLY recommended I not lower the spring rates, as they are "necessary for that heavy car".
"I wish I knew the factory spring rates". I saw 5.5 kg. or thereabouts quoted somewhere.
"I think you would be happier to put the stock springs on. Get the blistien rear and keyboard front shocks". Bilstein claims they have nothing for my car and can't comment on using items designed for other applications (the lawyers talking). Not familiar with Keyboard. Source?
"Get the figs front and rear sway bar". Talked to FIG today and earlier. The front will work, but the straight rear designed for the SC300/400 has interference. Plan to use the IS-F 17mm bar. FIG can supply with necessary bits to fit the SC.
"Poly bushings up front". Just got all the Daizen bushing sets from Todd (TM Engineering).
"Add more camber front and rear. That extra camber isn't going to change tire wear much".
Understand. My 1986 635Csi has almost 3 degrees at the rear, and I'm into the wear bars before the inner corners reach the danger point.
"Just as long as you have toe within specified range". Yep. The PO just had the dealer replace the right caster control arm (#2 lower) during the alignment as part of the 90,000 mile service because of a worn bushing. They said they inspected the left. I'll keep my eye on it, including tire wear monitoring. (They also replaced the timing belt)
At this point I'm planning the following:
Install the stiffer sway bars
Adjust the shock units
Install (and lube) the Daizen bushings (which include steering rack bushings)
The next step might be to install lower rate Swift springs (say 10-12 fronts and 7-8 rears) If I were to reinstall the stock units, I'd like to go with lowering spring and quality shocks, but don't have a source for either. H&R lists their springs for the 2002-2004 model years only, can't explain why the later years are excluded.
Thanks again!
01-06-16, 04:53 PM
#29
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Daizen bushings
Actually, the Daizen bushing sets are being sold on Amazon by "TME Distributing", not TM Engineering. I believe it is still under the auspices of Todd Matsumara
Last edited by Marrkk; 01-06-16 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Typo
01-06-16, 05:56 PM
#30
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Megan-Rear-S...xU7qJB&vxp=mtr
These are the re subframe collars I was referring to.dazin has both sway bars.
Adjusting those dampers is the first thing then build around that.
Just try to get those coil overs working how you want before giving up on them and looking into different springs and shocks. Definitely get the poly bushings up front including the steering rack ones.
These are the re subframe collars I was referring to.dazin has both sway bars.
Adjusting those dampers is the first thing then build around that.
Just try to get those coil overs working how you want before giving up on them and looking into different springs and shocks. Definitely get the poly bushings up front including the steering rack ones.