Scott R

I posted this over at a BMW Z4 forum, but I've modified it a bit here...

First a bit of history: Many years ago, I had a bright yellow '91 Toyota MR2 (non-turbo). It was the first car I ever bought new (and, to this day, the first of only two cars I ever bought new). At the time I was going to college, working part time, and living at home. Loved the car. Then one winter day, we got hit with some freezing rain, and the car spun out when I was shifting. Came to a nice stop in the middle of the road, safe and sound, but then another car hit their brakes and slowly but surely slid into the passenger door. I got it fixed but when the next winter approached, I got worried that a RWD car might be a bad choice in CT. I couldn't convince my dad to let me buy a 2nd beater for the winter, as he didn't want another car taking up driveway space, so I ended up trading it towards a Jeep Cherokee Limited ('89 2-door). That was fun for a while, and good in the snow, but I got the bug for a sports car again, and when we temporarily moved to PA I ended up with a new '07 Mazda RX-8. I absolutely loved driving that thing, but hated filling up the gas tank. We ended up moving back to CT about 2 years later, and due to some financial circumstances, I ended up selling the RX-8 to help with the move. Around that time, my brother had gotten an '06 (or somewhere around that year) BMW 3-series convertible, and I got the itch for a convertible. I had an opportunity to get a silver M3 convertible (I think it was a 2001) for a good price but I decided to try out a red 3-series (not an M3) that caught my eye, and when I returned from the test drive I parked it, and saw a pool of antifreeze (if memory serves), which got me a bit nervous about BMW reliability (I know, one incident means nothing). I ended up getting a black '02 Lexus SC430, which I'm still driving today. I really like the styling of it, and the reliability has been excellent, but it doesn't give me the huge smile on my face that the RX-8 did. That said, every winter I find myself wondering if a RWD car is such a smart idea in CT anyway.

Anyway, the "I want a different car" bug hits me every so often, and I've been able to resist it thus far. Maybe you all can help me do so again.

Right now, the car that appeals to me the most is the BMW Z4 (specifically an '06-08 model year). I haven't made it out to test driving one, but hope to make that happen within the next week or so. I would most likely want a convertible, but the rarer coupe model is intriguing as well. If I allow myself to entertain the notion of going back to a non-convertible RWD sports car, another car that could probably satisfy me is a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S (I haven't test driven one of those, either) and with those, I could possibly even justify buying new.

FWIW, I get by with my current RWD SC430 during the winter by putting some weight in the trunk and simply avoid driving it in the snow if at all possible (which is actually easy for me to manage as I work remotely out of my home, and only occasionally drive in to the office in PA). I've thought about trying to have my cake and eat it by getting something like an Audi TT AWD or BMW 3-series w/AWD. The Subaru WRX styling doesn't really do much for me. FYI, I haven't yet test driven any of these cars.

But then I think, hey, it's only a couple months out of the year that I really need to worry about snow, and even then, I can usually avoid having to drive in it thanks to my work situation, so should I really limit my options? Plus, I could improve things further by getting snow tires.

But then there's another issue...I live in a well-to-do rural town where there are too many police with nothing better to do than lie in wait in some of the quiet streets near my house, looking for speeders. I'm not a drag racer by nature, anyway, but over the course of the last few years, I've grown accustomed to driving pretty slow. In some respects, living here has taken much of the fun out of driving altogether. I figure that with a car that handles more like my RX-8 did, maybe I'll at least get enjoyment from that. And, hey, with a convertible, there's always some pleasure in driving with the top down, even when you're driving slow.

But then I also think...maybe I shouldn't give up on my SC430. The black exterior has got some dings and, up close, the paint looks pretty badly scratched up (mostly micro-scratches), but from a distance when washed up, it still looks beautiful, and the interior is in close to excellent condition. It gives me a convertible and, so far, amazing reliability. And it's paid off! Maybe there's more I can do to make it feel more like driving that '07 RX-8? Note, however, that I am not a DIY-er. I know nothing about how to fix/replace anything on my car. So any repairs/upgrades I do would require that I pay someone else to do it (which, if the upgrades are expensive, might push me back into the direction of trading it in for something else).

So what are some of the issues?...

1) While the SC430 has a pretty huge V8 engine, it feels sluggish off the line. Because of the circumstances of my town, this is actually a non-issue for me. So feel free to ignore this "issue".

2) One of the biggest problem for me is how it handles. Driving through twisty roads in my RX-8 put a huge smile on my face. With the SC430, I just don't feel like I'm feeling the road in a good way. But when I go over a pothole (which I try to avoid - but right now especially the roads are a mess around here), I *do* feel it in a bad way. So, I'm thinking that one problem is my shocks. Maybe they need to be replaced? I'm the 2nd or 3rd owner and got it with about 60K miles, so I suspect it's still on the original shocks. If so, how much would I need to spend (including install) and would I want to replace with something aftermarket to make it feel better than new?

I suspect the handling issues are also not just with the shocks but steering as well. Maybe too much power assist compared to my RX-8? If so, can anything be done about that?

FYI, I did replace the run-flat tires with non-run flats when I first bought it and then replaced them again (I think with a different make/model of tire) when those were wearing down about a year or so ago. I'll reply back later with the make/model of tire I'm currently using and the current PSI setting. Again, I *want* to feel the road *more* (in a good way) but also have the road imperfections felt less. Is such a thing possible? It seemed like that's how my RX-8 felt on day one. I'm thinking maybe the combo of new shocks but also higher PSI level on my tires?

As a reminder, I know what I like and don't like about how a car feels to drive, but because I'm not mechanically inclined with cars, I'm a complete idiot about identifying which components are responsible for the feeling of "good handling". I've mentioned a couple of guesses (PSI level, tires, shocks, steering power assist). Other things I imagine that I should consider are alignment. What else?

3) I get a vibration/shudder when I'm driving within a certain range of speed (around 45-55mph, if memory serves). When I last replaced my tires, the guy there said that one of my wheels was bent (or was it cracked?) and that this could be the cause. He gave me the name of a guy who actually repairs that sort of thing. This is actually not something that has been a major concern for me (more of an annoyance), but perhaps it's having a bigger impact on my overall handling complaints mentioned in #2?

4) The one other thing that I really do miss about my RX-8, which I obviously can't do anything about with my SC430, is the manual transmission. I really did enjoy shifting gears. Especially when you're just driving around town, up and down hills, it just made it more of a fun experience.

bacardi11

iTrader: (1)

maybe if your 430sc was setup right you may enjoy it better. have you done any work to the car?
change sway bars. will corner better.

Scott R

I bought the car around 2008 with about 60k miles on it. Other than some chrome wheels, it appeared to be stock, but I obviously can't say for sure about anything under the hood. Only thing I've really done over the years is replace tires, probably a brake job or two (nothing upgraded), timing belt service, and oil changes. Because I'm not a DIY-er and I try to avoid the Lexus dealer, it's possible that I'm overdue on some other maintenance things which I should probably look into. The car currently has about 110k miles on it.

Anyways, my current tires are Continental ExtremeContact DWS. Just checked the tire pressure: 40PSI. What are the lowest and highest PSI levels I could safely experiment with?

bacardi11

iTrader: (1)

like try some sway bars. slvbullet did nice sway bar setup. at present iam trying to install the IS-F 17mm rear sway bar and the front Gs 430 28.6 sway bar. the front will fit. like I said slvbullet did a nice setup from Swells lexus front 33mm and a rear 19mm.. iam trying to go a another way. try it you may like it.

Scott R

How much money we talking about for sway bars including installation?

jzwu

It is hard to make the SC430 drive like what you want, since it is designed as a luxury cruiser not a sporty car.

For now, drop your tire pressure to 33-35 psi, which will help when going over potholes. I have put in lowering springs on mine to drop the car about 1 inch, and put on a cusco front strut bar, changed my tire setup as front 235/45-18 and rear 255/40-18.

So far, the car drives ok (rides a bit firmer, less wandering on highway and tail happy when cornering) for my daily highway commute. But for driving fun on weekends, I take out my 2005 BMW 330ci convertible.

bacardi11

iTrader: (1)

swells with cl discount about 515 like I said I went another way. everything cost money. I use Swift Springs cost me 215 00 ebay my drop is only .8 front and .6 rear for tire wear and my tires are as straight as possible. we all do things different. as you see by my sway bar setup i'm trying. cost 205 used parts for the car from Canada. when you change somethings the car will act different. slvbullet like the track and course. me at 71 I do my thing. the 430sc with a little work can be fun to drive.

indawire

My '02 is stock also except for the same tires as you have. I do have the option of taking our '07 Miata MX-5 out on those narrow Ct. roads when I feel like cutting up a bit. If you want to try the Miata let me know, it could be a good option if you decide to sell the SC. Where are you at in Ct?

Scott R

indawire, thanks for the offer. I'm in West Simsbury. Interesting story about the Miata: In my younger days, I was a bit obsessed with them when they were first coming out and even bought a hardcover book which gave the whole story about them. So that must have been around 1990. At the time there was a waiting list for them, so they were going for above-list price at the dealer brand new. I also think I remember sitting in one and I think I was concerned about the headroom (and maybe the legroom, too, I don't remember). I'm just under 6'2" and was probably the same height then (I would have been 19 and in college at the time - but my mother worked for the college I went to so I was able to go for free, lived at home, and had a part-time job which paid for my car payments - though I think my parents paid for my insurance). Because of the above-market price, wait time, and/or headroom (it was so long ago, that I don't really remember), I later ended up checking out a '91 Toyota MR2 (yellow, non-turbo, with t-tops). I loved it and ended up buying it. Good headroom and great legroom, too. Later on, when Toyota revamped it as a convertible, I remember sitting in one of those and thinking, "wow, this thing has horrible legroom and the interior didn't seem as rich as that '91 MR2 I used to have."

Anyway, I did reconsider the Miata a few years back. I think at the time I was thinking about getting one as 3rd vehicle, where I'd get an AWD/4WD vehicle of some sort and maybe an older Miata for $12k or less. I figured that even though it might be high mileage, they seemed to have good reliability records. I didn't end up doing that, though, and instead ended up with an SC430 as my only car.

So flash forward to today...I made it out to my local CarMax today and test drove a Z4. I really liked it, but I didn't love the CarMax experience for two reasons:

1) The sales guy drives with you (I fully expected that he'd want to anyway, since I was there by myself, but I suspect that had I been there with my wife or daughter, they would have left them at the curb and insisted that I drive with them - they claim to have some policy where the salesperson needs to drive the car out of the gate and then we can switch places, but I suspect that's just a story to give them an excuse to drive with you). In any case, it makes for a test drive where I don't feel comfortable really putting the car through its paces. Plus, the guy is telling me to turn here, turn there, etc. and it all results in a very short test drive. So, the test drive was too short (and too "limited" in other ways) for me to get a real gauge for how the car compared to the car that I hold up on a pedestal in terms of its handling: my '07 Mazda RX-8.

2) They only offered me $9000 for my '02 SC430. In case I didn't mention it, my SC430 is in perfect running condition, has about 110k miles, the exterior is Black and has some nicks, a lot of scratches (mostly very fine scratches), but from 10 feet away when washed, it still looks gorgeous. Interior is saddle brown (whatever the official color is) and is in very good condition (my driver seat has a couple of creases and the armrest has some dirty spots and dirty stitching in places due to sweat), but overall the interior looks amazing for an '02 car (in comparison, the '07 Z4 I test drove had red leather which had more creases and was kind of dirty looking in a lot of spots).

I forgot to test drive the Z4 with the top up, so I forgot to see how bad the visibility was with the top up. Next time.

Overall, though, the Z4 definitely seemed to handle more like a sports car as compared to my SC430. And I really did like running through the gears of a MT. I just find that a lot of fun. And I was proud of myself for not stalling it, grinding gears, accidentally shifting into the wrong gear, etc. considering the last time I drove a MT was with my RX-8 and that was about 6 years ago.

So, as of today, I don't really know where I stand. I'd like a car that handles better and I'd like a MT. And I love the look of the Z4. And, after having my SC430 for about 6 years, I think I'm just bored. I like to change things up every now and again, and I think 6 years with the same car is probably just a long time for me. So, while I've complained about the handling of my SC430, I think that the real problem with the SC430 isn't the SC430, but me (like when someone breaks up with their girlfriend/boyfriend: "It's not you, it's me."). I think I just want a change.

**BUT** do I "want a change" enough to take just $9K for my SC430? Hmm...that's a tough one.

bacardi11

iTrader: (1)

list it for sale your no longer happy with the 430sc. that's the way it seem to me.

Born2x

A SC430 with 110k miles on it and you've not done anything with the Shock Absorbers and Strut Assemblies? Dude... that's abuse. Seriously, that poor car should be handling like crap!

It's paid for! That's the best thing going for you. Put three thousand into the car and treat it good, You just might be surprised with what you have when finished.

I put Megan coilovers on mine at 60k and lowered it 1.00-1.50 inch. It now holds corners of complex roads wonderfully. And nothing helps more then what grabs the road... no run flat's! Get some high end Michelin's, they'll grab the road like a race car, but driving like that you'll be lucky to get 20k out of the tires.

If you don't like the car after giving it a well deserved chance, then sell the car and deal with the payment. When you personally sell the car (trading in a car will always lose money), the next owner will have a car that was loved some.

Actually... I'd like to see you go test drive a Mazda RX-8 with 110k and original shocks. Or even the BMW Z4 with the same criteria... Give the SC a fair comparison. Oh.... the BMW's reliability will suck cash out of you, and if ignore taking care of it, it will cost you plenty.

I'm not trying to be mean, it's something I'd tell my son.

The winter driving... Buy a beater car to take the abuse of the environment and road hazards that come with those two months.

A paid off car is a wonderful feeling. I hate being in debt.

Best of luck with your choice.

Regards,
Dan

jzwu

OP has two options here.

1. Keep his SC430, spend some money to change/upgrade the suspension system and/ or tires. This will definitely improve the overall driving experience, but it won't make his car a true sports car.

2. Sell the SC430 privately and buy a sports car like the Z4.

tromly

I agree, time to sell the car.

mandyfig

I truly enjoy the SC. Like indiawire, I take out the MX-5 to experience a different kind of thing. I enjoy both, but must admit, the SC rocks!

Scott R

Can you provide more details on these suggestions, what the breakdown of costs would be, and how I might track down a local place that could do the installs?

Are my Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires not adequate? I picked these the last time around due to positive things I read here.