Timing Belt for 2003 SC 430 at 25000 miles
01-30-10, 01:44 PM
#16
My friend and co-worker did. He was driving a Honda Prelude and the timing belt snapped. He quietly rolled over to the side of the road. I feared the worst for his wallet but other than the tow and belt replacement bill he was fine. His engine was not an Interference engine like ours though! His went at 75,000 miles. This was in the early 90's and I think the timing belts were generally scheduled to be replaced at 60,000 miles.
01-30-10, 04:31 PM
#17
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I read an article about tires authored by Ford, it states that tires on vehicles that are approaching 6 yrs old regardless of mileage on them should be replaced due to the tire components breaking down and failing. That being true then i would not think twice about replacing a 6yr old timing belt regardless of mileage, the age is really important, the mileage not so important if if is not at the suggested replacement mileage. I have a 04 Solara with 12,000 miles on it and replaced the tires and am going to get the timing belt done too.
01-31-10, 02:12 AM
#18
Do whatever makes you feel good and sleep well at night. Timing belts have been the excuse for STEALERSHIP gouging for years. In all of my time driving (~40 years) I have never personally known one person or for that matter knew someone who knew someone that had a timing belt break...... I'd love to hear the reports from those that have......
I personally have a problem pulling apart a motor at 30K miles to do "scheduled maintenance" like this. Sounds like a license to steal! I will be rolling the dice on our 2002 with 30K miles. Thanks martini3 for the real world feedback! I say the odds are on my side.
I personally have a problem pulling apart a motor at 30K miles to do "scheduled maintenance" like this. Sounds like a license to steal! I will be rolling the dice on our 2002 with 30K miles. Thanks martini3 for the real world feedback! I say the odds are on my side.
01-31-10, 11:50 AM
#19
Just my 2 cents.
Well in my opinion the belts don't need to be replaced till the mileage it's due. The belt is inside a housing so it is protected from the elements. The tire issue that was mentioned is valid though, I have experienced that, had a tire with 85 % tread blow out the side wall just outside Phoenix on our motor home, it was 13 years old. Tires are subject to all sorts of contaminents the worst being the sun causing the rubber to degrade. Timing belts on the other hand are well protected, unless you have a cam or crank seal leaking oil they should be fine. I purchased our silver SC430 from spinout180 last July with 95,000 miles and to the best of his knowledge the belt had never been replaced so soon after getting the car home I replaced the timing belt, tensioner & idler brgs along with the hyd. tensioner and water pump to be on the safe side. I was amazed after close inspection of the belt it looked like it had been replaced recently and looked perfect! On another note we just bought ES300 before Christmas with 100,000 miles and from the research I did found that the timing belt had not been replaced either so to be on the safe side did the same, replaced belt, brgs & water pump. That belt too looked perfect. So either the belts had been replaced and no record of it was made or they are great quality belts! It's always good to do regular maintenance on your vehicle to make it last but I guess it boils down to your own choice and peace of mind if you replace the belt by time or mileage.
01-31-10, 02:25 PM
#20
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mdpuff,
Most likely you are correct. I have personally replaced several of these "timing belts" a variety of cars (the last two were Japanese cars).
I also have replaced many timing chains on many older vehicles and some had metal and some a nylon/metal hybrid crankshaft gear. Most of the time we would not replace these until they "jumped time" and the crank gear actually spun a tooth or two inside the chain and the car either would not run or would run very poorly. These domestic engines were not interference engines and usually did no damage whenever this happened.
Of the vehicles that had timing belts, the belts looked as if they would have easily lasted at least twice whatever the mileage was on the vehicle (One had 90,000 and one had 100,000 miles,etc.).
I'm not sure why manufacturers recommend replacing them so soon except for the fact some (maybe most) are interference engines. Mucho damage can and would occur if they do fail and people would be very upset having to pay several thousand dollars, at the very least, it would take to repair.
Again, "Back in the day", (man that makes me sound old at 47!), some cars had nylon crank gears because they were quieter than metal gears. Whenever they were replaced, most went with a metal gear because it lasted much longer. I also remember dropping the oil pan and there were little chips of nylon that accumulated in it from the nylon gear as it wore down. Some of this would come out whenever you changed the oil but most would stay in the pan! LOL!
I cannot believe that elite manufactures (like LEXUS) cannot come up with a longer lasting, like Permanent, timing belt/chain,gearing that would last the life of the car.
I think that maybe they can but it would be much more expensive alternative.
Speaking of tires, my late Father (11-16-08) and I spent most of our together time
as I was growing up, working on cars. Replacing engines, transmissions, rearends or what ever normal maintenance that was needed on our daily drivers. In the daytime he managed a Phillips 66 Service Station and on his off time any of his friends that needed help with their car projects, we were always there to help. (Some say "They don't make cars like they used to"! Thank God! I remember if you got 100,000 miles on a car,without
replacing the engine, transmission or both, you were the talk of the neighborhood! LOL!
Remember manual chokes (and then automatic chokes), points, rotor buttons,etc?)
Back to tires; My dad also worked at a tire manufactures for 30+ years (Gates/Armstrong then Pirelli). He worked at many jobs in the factory ranging from tire builder to working in the "Lab" testing samples. I used to joke to my friends that my
dad was a "Rubber Checker" but, for a period of time, that is exactly what he was!
He was very **** about his tires. He usually replaced them at 1/2 tread and always taught me to rotate, balance and check the wear pattern on tires. He said your tires would tell you much about how a car was aligned or how the owner drove the car.
He would put his 1/2 worn tires in the crawl space of our house (I bet at one time we had 6 to 8 SETS of tires under our house at one time! LOL!). He worked night shift at Armstrong and I had a big block Mustang in high school that I white smoked the tires on several times a week. I would sneek under the house when he was at work and get some of the worn tires and then put them on my Stang' to do some more white smokin'.
For a period of appx.1 1/2 years, I went through several set of tires to say the least! LOL!
My brother has an old trailer that we inherited from our grandfather that was custom made by someone. It has an old Ford 9"rear end welded to a frame and the tires are 15" bias ply tires (remember those?). I think he only recently replaced the tires because both he and I got scared to use it because they were so dry rotten (We only used the trailer a few times a year). I'm guessing the tires were 30+ years old and the trailer is stored outside so you can imagine how deep the cracks were in the sidewall as well as between the tread! The point is: Although these tires looked awful, they never failed.
In fact, the only time I have ever had a blowout was due to a factory defect in a particular tire. I currently have Hankook tires on my company vehicle and had a blowout with less than 10,000 miles on them due to a knot on the inner sidewall that blew out.
I know that others have had blowouts due to an aged tire, but I have not experienced that myself. I HAVE picked up many,many nails, screws, screwdrivers, etc over the years! My tires are like magnets to them! LOL!
Sorry for the very long post and thanks for letting me relive some fond memories,
but I think for the relative inexpensive cost of replacing these timing belts (and water pump,pullies,etc. at the same time) is Very Good insurance! You do not want your car to let you down. If a belt were to fail, YOU KNOW your would be 1000 miles from home, on a Sunday night out in the middle of nowhere with your family in the car, etc..
$500.00 to $1000.00 every 4 or 5 years?, Sounds like a bargain to me....
Thanks And Hope This Helps Someone.
God Bless,
Brian
Most likely you are correct. I have personally replaced several of these "timing belts" a variety of cars (the last two were Japanese cars).
I also have replaced many timing chains on many older vehicles and some had metal and some a nylon/metal hybrid crankshaft gear. Most of the time we would not replace these until they "jumped time" and the crank gear actually spun a tooth or two inside the chain and the car either would not run or would run very poorly. These domestic engines were not interference engines and usually did no damage whenever this happened.
Of the vehicles that had timing belts, the belts looked as if they would have easily lasted at least twice whatever the mileage was on the vehicle (One had 90,000 and one had 100,000 miles,etc.).
I'm not sure why manufacturers recommend replacing them so soon except for the fact some (maybe most) are interference engines. Mucho damage can and would occur if they do fail and people would be very upset having to pay several thousand dollars, at the very least, it would take to repair.
Again, "Back in the day", (man that makes me sound old at 47!), some cars had nylon crank gears because they were quieter than metal gears. Whenever they were replaced, most went with a metal gear because it lasted much longer. I also remember dropping the oil pan and there were little chips of nylon that accumulated in it from the nylon gear as it wore down. Some of this would come out whenever you changed the oil but most would stay in the pan! LOL!
I cannot believe that elite manufactures (like LEXUS) cannot come up with a longer lasting, like Permanent, timing belt/chain,gearing that would last the life of the car.
I think that maybe they can but it would be much more expensive alternative.
Speaking of tires, my late Father (11-16-08) and I spent most of our together time
as I was growing up, working on cars. Replacing engines, transmissions, rearends or what ever normal maintenance that was needed on our daily drivers. In the daytime he managed a Phillips 66 Service Station and on his off time any of his friends that needed help with their car projects, we were always there to help. (Some say "They don't make cars like they used to"! Thank God! I remember if you got 100,000 miles on a car,without
replacing the engine, transmission or both, you were the talk of the neighborhood! LOL!
Remember manual chokes (and then automatic chokes), points, rotor buttons,etc?)
Back to tires; My dad also worked at a tire manufactures for 30+ years (Gates/Armstrong then Pirelli). He worked at many jobs in the factory ranging from tire builder to working in the "Lab" testing samples. I used to joke to my friends that my
dad was a "Rubber Checker" but, for a period of time, that is exactly what he was!
He was very **** about his tires. He usually replaced them at 1/2 tread and always taught me to rotate, balance and check the wear pattern on tires. He said your tires would tell you much about how a car was aligned or how the owner drove the car.
He would put his 1/2 worn tires in the crawl space of our house (I bet at one time we had 6 to 8 SETS of tires under our house at one time! LOL!). He worked night shift at Armstrong and I had a big block Mustang in high school that I white smoked the tires on several times a week. I would sneek under the house when he was at work and get some of the worn tires and then put them on my Stang' to do some more white smokin'.
For a period of appx.1 1/2 years, I went through several set of tires to say the least! LOL!
My brother has an old trailer that we inherited from our grandfather that was custom made by someone. It has an old Ford 9"rear end welded to a frame and the tires are 15" bias ply tires (remember those?). I think he only recently replaced the tires because both he and I got scared to use it because they were so dry rotten (We only used the trailer a few times a year). I'm guessing the tires were 30+ years old and the trailer is stored outside so you can imagine how deep the cracks were in the sidewall as well as between the tread! The point is: Although these tires looked awful, they never failed.
In fact, the only time I have ever had a blowout was due to a factory defect in a particular tire. I currently have Hankook tires on my company vehicle and had a blowout with less than 10,000 miles on them due to a knot on the inner sidewall that blew out.
I know that others have had blowouts due to an aged tire, but I have not experienced that myself. I HAVE picked up many,many nails, screws, screwdrivers, etc over the years! My tires are like magnets to them! LOL!
Sorry for the very long post and thanks for letting me relive some fond memories,
but I think for the relative inexpensive cost of replacing these timing belts (and water pump,pullies,etc. at the same time) is Very Good insurance! You do not want your car to let you down. If a belt were to fail, YOU KNOW your would be 1000 miles from home, on a Sunday night out in the middle of nowhere with your family in the car, etc..
$500.00 to $1000.00 every 4 or 5 years?, Sounds like a bargain to me....
Thanks And Hope This Helps Someone.
God Bless,
Brian
01-31-10, 08:50 PM
#21
Brings back memories!
Hey Glock3540 you've brought back some old memories, as a mechanic I have done more timing chains on north american vehicles ( and a few imports )than I care to remember. Even had a couple of small block Chevy's that the owner brought in for an oil leak and found the oil was coming from the timing cover, when I pulled the cover off I was shocked to see all the nylon gone off the cam gear and the leak was caused by the chain being so loose it wore a hole in the cover but never jumped! I might be dating myself but the only timing chain I had go out on my own vehicle was back in the mid 70's when the chain jumped in "MY" big block mustang! 1970 428 CJ 4 spd convert! Still have the car in pieces parked out back waiting for resoration. And lonfrank I can relate to the Volvo chain, I did one on a freind of a freind's V8 Volvo back in the late 70's and your right they were a poor design and a PITA! I take pride in maintaining my vehicles to the best of my abilities and am proud to say I haven't had any of my vehicles break down on me since I was a youg lad.
( knock on wood ) and I've had a lot of cars over the years. I will follow the manufacturer's recomended mileage intervals and replace the timing belt and all related parts while I'm in there even if they look like they would still go a long way. Don't know if this helps anyone, this is just my "2 cents".
( knock on wood ) and I've had a lot of cars over the years. I will follow the manufacturer's recomended mileage intervals and replace the timing belt and all related parts while I'm in there even if they look like they would still go a long way. Don't know if this helps anyone, this is just my "2 cents".
10-15-13, 10:43 AM
#22
Driver School Candidate
God with all of the gizmos on our car why not make the timeing belt out of titanuim. instead of rubber or some synthetic fibre. In the days of metal timing chains you knew
just when the chain was going bad . It made a lot of noise for a lot of miles. It was also hard to set the timimg when it was stretched.
just when the chain was going bad . It made a lot of noise for a lot of miles. It was also hard to set the timimg when it was stretched.
Even on the newer GM engines, like the v6 camaro's and Cadillac CTS v6, they made the chain so that it wears out after 100k, which is really ridiculous. GM factory recalled it, even. Something to do with the way they designed it to be extra-quiet. Who cares about quiet? I want a timing chain that will last the life of the car.
10-15-13, 10:52 AM
#23
UV is a big component of tire deterioration (I always checked the DOT date code on my motorcycle tires before I put them on). Not going to affect the timing belt. But, since I'm risk averse I might change out a 10 year old timing belt just for peace of mind, even though it could go on without problems for 100K miles!
10-15-13, 02:23 PM
#24
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Do whatever makes you feel good and sleep well at night. Timing belts have been the excuse for STEALERSHIP gouging for years. In all of my time driving (~40 years) I have never personally known one person or for that matter knew someone who knew someone that had a timing belt break...... I'd love to hear the reports from those that have......
I personally have a problem pulling apart a motor at 30K miles to do "scheduled maintenance" like this. Sounds like a license to steal! I will be rolling the dice on our 2002 with 30K miles. Thanks martini3 for the real world feedback! I say the odds are on my side.
__________________
i am with you tfeni52355, I have been driving for 40+ years and have changed dozens of timing belts. I have never come accross a belt that was about to brake becausen of age. My 2002 has 38k, and I will wait a least another 4-5 years. These belts are a lot stronger than you think. But if you want peace of mind do what you are comfortable with.
I personally have a problem pulling apart a motor at 30K miles to do "scheduled maintenance" like this. Sounds like a license to steal! I will be rolling the dice on our 2002 with 30K miles. Thanks martini3 for the real world feedback! I say the odds are on my side.
__________________
i am with you tfeni52355, I have been driving for 40+ years and have changed dozens of timing belts. I have never come accross a belt that was about to brake becausen of age. My 2002 has 38k, and I will wait a least another 4-5 years. These belts are a lot stronger than you think. But if you want peace of mind do what you are comfortable with.
10-15-13, 06:48 PM
#25
Driver School Candidate
Nothing wrong with a little bit of physical examination for some peace of mind. When I examined mine on my last timing-belt-having Toyota Supra. It looked fine. No cracks, no fine tears. It looked mint. So, I kept driving it. It was replaced around 60k, I bought it around 70k and drove it 10 additional years, up to 130k. Part of me doubts if the stealership that did that job ever even really replaced it, because on that same "scheduled maintenance" invoice it had also said they had replaced the valve cover gaskets... and that was a load of crap, because I needed to replace them about 10k miles after I bought the car. Stealerships many times will charge for work they didn't even do, or might have forgot to finish (maybe the techs were really hungry that day, and decided to head out early to the local buffet).
I don't know how easy it is to get at the timing belt on the SC430 engine, but check out this thread here on CL sometimes you just have to be your own engineer for your own piece of mind, and at least know how to gauge it a little better than not peeking at all. I would personally go to at least 60-70k before having the dealer do it, unless the money isn't an issue.
I don't know how easy it is to get at the timing belt on the SC430 engine, but check out this thread here on CL sometimes you just have to be your own engineer for your own piece of mind, and at least know how to gauge it a little better than not peeking at all. I would personally go to at least 60-70k before having the dealer do it, unless the money isn't an issue.
10-15-13, 06:57 PM
#26
Plenty of timing belts break, but they almost never ever break on their own.
The timing belt in the SC430 (4.3L Toyota engine) is extremely robust and I have never heard of or met anyone who has ever heard of a belt breaking because it wore out and cracked.
All broken timing belts on SC430s are due to failure of another component in the timing belt path - a seized water pump or failure of a tensioner or idler pulley, which then breaks the belt. So focus on the other components.
Many owners of SC430s who are not mechanically inclined don't understand that the water pump is driven by the timing belt, and both are buried deep in the engine. On most cars the water pump is mounted to the outside of the engine and is driven by the serpentine belt (or are electric on some newer cars). When the water pump fails it may break serpentine belt and the engine may overheat, but as long as you turn the engine off quickly that is the extent of the damage. When the water pump is on the outside of the engine some components usually need to be removed to gain the room to work on the water pump, but the labor is not too bad.
However, because the water pump and timing belt are inside the SC430 engine, the labor to get to them is substantial. However, once you are there and have removed the timing belt, the parts cost and labor to change out the water pump, idler pulleys and tensioner are very small in comparison to the labor to pull the engine apart to get to the belt. And if you know that the belt never breaks on its own why wouldn't you also change the other components that are always the cause of the belt failing?
Any dealer who doesn't change out these other components while changing the timing belt borders on criminal stupidity. If you change out the belt at 90K and expect the next timing belt change out to be at scheduled at 180K does anyone with half a brain want to bet that the water pump will last 180K? Is the cost savings of the water pump a good gamble against the cost of a valve job when the water pump seizes, breaks the belt and the pistons smash the valves?
If you get real lucky and the water pump begins to squeal before it seizes and you bring it to the dealer, he will be happy to change out your water pump, even if he just did the timing belt 10K miles ago but didn't change out the water pump. And changing out the water pump will cost as much as a timing belt change because the timing belt has to come off.
A big part of water pump health is dependent upon the condition of your coolant. Coolant, like engine oil, contains additives that lubricate seals in the water pump and prevent corrosion. A number of the additives are sacrificial and wear out over time, not so much mileage. Changing your coolant every two years is the best thing you can do towards keeping your water pump healthy.
The other mechanical guides for the timing belt (tensioner and idler pulleys) are more dependent upon number of hours the engine is run, and when you get to 80-90K it is time to change these with the water pump and belt.
I wouldn't worry about the belt breaking at 25K, 50K or 125K miles. I would worry about water pump failing, especially if you don't change your coolant every two years (truth be known the three fluids most neglected in cars are coolant, brake fluid and transmission fluid, and usually without any apparent negative effect if the car is purchased new and owned less than eight years).
For owners who put very few miles on your SC430 each year, if you maintain your coolant properly I wouldn't worry about the timing belt before at least 70K miles.
The timing belt in the SC430 (4.3L Toyota engine) is extremely robust and I have never heard of or met anyone who has ever heard of a belt breaking because it wore out and cracked.
All broken timing belts on SC430s are due to failure of another component in the timing belt path - a seized water pump or failure of a tensioner or idler pulley, which then breaks the belt. So focus on the other components.
Many owners of SC430s who are not mechanically inclined don't understand that the water pump is driven by the timing belt, and both are buried deep in the engine. On most cars the water pump is mounted to the outside of the engine and is driven by the serpentine belt (or are electric on some newer cars). When the water pump fails it may break serpentine belt and the engine may overheat, but as long as you turn the engine off quickly that is the extent of the damage. When the water pump is on the outside of the engine some components usually need to be removed to gain the room to work on the water pump, but the labor is not too bad.
However, because the water pump and timing belt are inside the SC430 engine, the labor to get to them is substantial. However, once you are there and have removed the timing belt, the parts cost and labor to change out the water pump, idler pulleys and tensioner are very small in comparison to the labor to pull the engine apart to get to the belt. And if you know that the belt never breaks on its own why wouldn't you also change the other components that are always the cause of the belt failing?
Any dealer who doesn't change out these other components while changing the timing belt borders on criminal stupidity. If you change out the belt at 90K and expect the next timing belt change out to be at scheduled at 180K does anyone with half a brain want to bet that the water pump will last 180K? Is the cost savings of the water pump a good gamble against the cost of a valve job when the water pump seizes, breaks the belt and the pistons smash the valves?
If you get real lucky and the water pump begins to squeal before it seizes and you bring it to the dealer, he will be happy to change out your water pump, even if he just did the timing belt 10K miles ago but didn't change out the water pump. And changing out the water pump will cost as much as a timing belt change because the timing belt has to come off.
A big part of water pump health is dependent upon the condition of your coolant. Coolant, like engine oil, contains additives that lubricate seals in the water pump and prevent corrosion. A number of the additives are sacrificial and wear out over time, not so much mileage. Changing your coolant every two years is the best thing you can do towards keeping your water pump healthy.
The other mechanical guides for the timing belt (tensioner and idler pulleys) are more dependent upon number of hours the engine is run, and when you get to 80-90K it is time to change these with the water pump and belt.
I wouldn't worry about the belt breaking at 25K, 50K or 125K miles. I would worry about water pump failing, especially if you don't change your coolant every two years (truth be known the three fluids most neglected in cars are coolant, brake fluid and transmission fluid, and usually without any apparent negative effect if the car is purchased new and owned less than eight years).
For owners who put very few miles on your SC430 each year, if you maintain your coolant properly I wouldn't worry about the timing belt before at least 70K miles.
10-15-13, 07:12 PM
#27
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The older Camry's are the same way, you have to replace the waterpump / timing belt / idler pulley all at the same time. And yeah, anyone who has an original waterpump around 100k+ it's only a time bomb waiting to blow; I don't care what brand vehicle. On some cars, the waterpump will fail and coolant will start spewing from the weep hole.
10-20-13, 07:31 PM
#29
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Change the fluid
Thanks for the last posts that make a point about changing the coolant. My '02 just turned 11,000 miles (bought it w/3,500 on it in April) and I'm sure has the original fluid in the system. I'm less worried about the belt then the age of the coolant thru the water pump.
I'm on it now. Thanks.
I'm on it now. Thanks.
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