06 Tail light install with PICS
01-09-06, 10:54 PM
#61
Originally Posted by RMR
I don't know about the 06 burn't out light indicator, but given my SC is an 03, and the current on the LED brake lights is much less than the filament type, the system believes there is an open filament.
The tape in the combination meter (dash) works just fine, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the ECU. Placing the tape takes about 20 minutes if you have some mechanical skills and does a fine job.
The likelyhood of the LED brake/tail lights ever burning out is slim, so the warning indicator function may be a mute point anyhow. There may not be a brake-tail light warning in the 06 given that fact.
The tape works just fine in my 03.
NICE430
The tape in the combination meter (dash) works just fine, and is a hell of a lot cheaper than replacing the ECU. Placing the tape takes about 20 minutes if you have some mechanical skills and does a fine job.
The likelyhood of the LED brake/tail lights ever burning out is slim, so the warning indicator function may be a mute point anyhow. There may not be a brake-tail light warning in the 06 given that fact.
The tape works just fine in my 03.
NICE430
i would just either live with it or find the ultimate solutionwell, that's if i ever get them
01-09-06, 11:10 PM
#62
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Suggestion from an outsider
First of all, I don't own a SC430. My good friend directed me to this thread. He owns a 05 SC430 and would like to do the LED tail light conversion but has been hesitant because of the warning light issue. I have an Audi S4 and may have some information which hopefully would be useful to solving this problem.
I have changed my headlights to European-spec headlights. There is a bulb in these euro spec lights called the city light (their equivalent of a parking light). On the audiworld forum we have been trying to solve the same problem of the triggering bulb outage warning light after changing to the city light to a LED bulb without the use of load equalizers. Load equalizers are not preferred since they get so hot and it is hard to find a safe place to put them. Recently someone on audiworld came up with the idea of using higher ohm resistors instead of the lower ohm load equalizers to see if that would emit much less heat and still not trigger the warning light on the dash. The end result is that higher ohm resistor was barely warm to the touch. Although you are dealing with a set of LEDs instead of one, I think you may still get around to using this method. The trick is to find what is the highest ohm resistor that you can use without setting off the warning light. In order to do that, you will need to have access to a set of these type of resistors. Hope this information will help you guys. Good luck!!! Here is the link:
LINK
I have changed my headlights to European-spec headlights. There is a bulb in these euro spec lights called the city light (their equivalent of a parking light). On the audiworld forum we have been trying to solve the same problem of the triggering bulb outage warning light after changing to the city light to a LED bulb without the use of load equalizers. Load equalizers are not preferred since they get so hot and it is hard to find a safe place to put them. Recently someone on audiworld came up with the idea of using higher ohm resistors instead of the lower ohm load equalizers to see if that would emit much less heat and still not trigger the warning light on the dash. The end result is that higher ohm resistor was barely warm to the touch. Although you are dealing with a set of LEDs instead of one, I think you may still get around to using this method. The trick is to find what is the highest ohm resistor that you can use without setting off the warning light. In order to do that, you will need to have access to a set of these type of resistors. Hope this information will help you guys. Good luck!!! Here is the link:
LINK
Last edited by gt3; 01-09-06 at 11:14 PM.
01-10-06, 12:21 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by rominl
nice info there, thanks for the writeup
my question would be, if you use a high ohm resistor instead, would the lights be dimmer though?
just thinking
my question would be, if you use a high ohm resistor instead, would the lights be dimmer though?
just thinking
01-10-06, 01:16 AM
#65
haha, well, i am ee right here 
but then i haven't touched the hands on part for a long time, so i am kinda playing from memory as well.
again since i have never seen these load resistors or high ohm resistors and how they are connected to the taillight system, i am only doing the guessing game. READ: this might be too technical (and dumb) for some people, but i think let's dig into it should we?
couple of assumptions i have here:
- led burns less power, meaning less I, meaning it has a big effect R
- normal bulb, it turns more power, meaning highr I, meaning less R (since voltage won't change across the bulb)
so the idea is with the led taillights, coz' of the minimal current drawn, the system thinks that some of the bulbs are burnt out (thus less current), so it triggers the light. in order to "fix" the problem, there is a "load" resistor. i still don't exactly know what's inside, but from what i read, you connect it by putting one end to gnd and the other to the hot wire of the led. this pretty much create a parallel circuit with the led. it will draw more current from the source (the led part stays the same current drawn), making the system thinks it's pumping out the right amount of juice.
idea wise this is ok, however, tons of currents are being dumped into the load resistor causing a lot of heat being dissipated -- bad idea.
i read the audiworld link (thanks gt3!!!!), and people says as long as you put the old driving light in parallel (at least that's how the wiring seems), you are fine, coz' indeed you have a bulb there. but instead of the bulb, you just replace it with a resistor with about the same ohm. so they found out a 220ohm 5w resistor would do the trick, since it's only burning 0.9w at 14v.
i think this might just work, as long as we know what's the voltage acorss the taillights (should be around 12-14v too?), and get a reasonable size resister rated at low wattage and connect it that way?
unlike what i stated in my previous post. if i didn't see it wrong, we really connect this resistor in parallel to the led taillights setup (which makes sense), the taillights should not get dimmer, coz' the voltage across doesn't change.
i guess my only last question is if this really works, then what the hell is a load resistor then? when a simple correctly rated resistor wold do all the trick you need?
someone please enlighten me
but then i haven't touched the hands on part for a long time, so i am kinda playing from memory as well.again since i have never seen these load resistors or high ohm resistors and how they are connected to the taillight system, i am only doing the guessing game. READ: this might be too technical (and dumb) for some people, but i think let's dig into it should we?
couple of assumptions i have here:
- led burns less power, meaning less I, meaning it has a big effect R
- normal bulb, it turns more power, meaning highr I, meaning less R (since voltage won't change across the bulb)
so the idea is with the led taillights, coz' of the minimal current drawn, the system thinks that some of the bulbs are burnt out (thus less current), so it triggers the light. in order to "fix" the problem, there is a "load" resistor. i still don't exactly know what's inside, but from what i read, you connect it by putting one end to gnd and the other to the hot wire of the led. this pretty much create a parallel circuit with the led. it will draw more current from the source (the led part stays the same current drawn), making the system thinks it's pumping out the right amount of juice.
idea wise this is ok, however, tons of currents are being dumped into the load resistor causing a lot of heat being dissipated -- bad idea.
i read the audiworld link (thanks gt3!!!!), and people says as long as you put the old driving light in parallel (at least that's how the wiring seems), you are fine, coz' indeed you have a bulb there. but instead of the bulb, you just replace it with a resistor with about the same ohm. so they found out a 220ohm 5w resistor would do the trick, since it's only burning 0.9w at 14v.
i think this might just work, as long as we know what's the voltage acorss the taillights (should be around 12-14v too?), and get a reasonable size resister rated at low wattage and connect it that way?
unlike what i stated in my previous post. if i didn't see it wrong, we really connect this resistor in parallel to the led taillights setup (which makes sense), the taillights should not get dimmer, coz' the voltage across doesn't change.
i guess my only last question is if this really works, then what the hell is a load resistor then? when a simple correctly rated resistor wold do all the trick you need?
someone please enlighten me
01-10-06, 02:20 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by rominl
i guess my only last question is if this really works, then what the hell is a load resistor then? when a simple correctly rated resistor wold do all the trick you need?
someone please enlighten me
01-10-06, 07:30 AM
#67
Here got some info for you
A typical device that requires less than 5v and draws less than 25mA is an LED.
A LED must be supplied with an exact voltage for it to operate correctly. Because it requires LESS than 5v, a dropper resistor (current limiting resistor) must be included in series to "take-up" or "absorb" or "interface" the LED to the output line. Working out the value of the current-limiting resistor requires some mathematics but this is very easy when you know how.
25mA
The current taken by a device is called the LOAD CURRENT. Twenty-five milli-amp is not very much in electrical terms but in electronic terms, it is amazing what can be driven. 25mA is 0.025Amp and this is not sufficient to drive a motor or globe but there are a number of devices that can be driven.
1. LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) require up to about 25mA for full illumination.
2. Piezo diaphragms require very little current and can be driven directly from an output line.
3. Low-current relays can be driven directly provided they operate at 25mA and 5v. If more than 25mA is required, a driver transistor (also called a buffer transistor or buffer stage) will be needed. The specification for an output line is 25mA @ 5v. In other words the output line has an output voltage of 5v and the maximum current that can be delivered by it is 25mA.The output line will, in theory, deliver more than 25mA but the transistor (in the chip) delivering the current may be damaged (overheated) if a higher current flows. The current delivered by the output line is determined by the resistance of the device (or devices), connected to the line.
The simplest device is a resistor as shown in fig: 1.
If the resistance of the resistor is too low, more than 25mA will flow. If the resistance is high, less than 25mA will flow. The current flow is not determined by the chip but by the value of the resistor. The resistor is called the LOAD RESISTOR or simply the LOAD.
THE VALUE OF THE LOAD RESISTOR
The resistance of the load resistor is worked out using Ohm's Law. We know the voltage on the output line is 5v. This is V in the formula. The max current available is 0.025A = I in the formula. Ohms Law states: I = V/R (Current equals volts divided by resistance). This equation can be re-arranged as:
R = V/I
Putting the two values into the equation produces:
R = 5/.025
= 200
= 200ohms. A 200 ohm resistor connected to an output line will allow 25mA to flow when the output is HIGH. This is only a theoretical explanation as a resistor on an output line will not perform any function! It won't do anything by itself except get slightly hot. But a resistor will perform more than 20 different functions, depending on where it is placed in a circuit and the value of the components around it. In our first example below, a resistor is added in series with a LED so that the LED will take a maximum of 25mA. The purpose of the resistor is two-fold. Firstly it allows the LED to create a characteristic voltage across it of 1.7v (for a red LED) and secondly it has a value so that 25mA flows through the LED. The resistor will have 5v on one end and 1.7v on the other. These voltage are provided by the chip and the LED and the resistor has nothing to do with creating them. The resistor simply allows a certain amount of current to flow, depending on its value, (25mA) and that's the value worked out above.
A point to note: The '508 has 5 output lines and if all the outputs are delivering 25mA, the total output for the chip will be 125mA. This is slightly above the allowable maximum current of 100mA for the chip but will not be a problem.
Let's go to a practical situation:
cut and pasted this from
http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/25mA.html
they are selling a nice load resistor here
http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ord-L...bs-1-33226.htm
A LED must be supplied with an exact voltage for it to operate correctly. Because it requires LESS than 5v, a dropper resistor (current limiting resistor) must be included in series to "take-up" or "absorb" or "interface" the LED to the output line. Working out the value of the current-limiting resistor requires some mathematics but this is very easy when you know how.
25mA
The current taken by a device is called the LOAD CURRENT. Twenty-five milli-amp is not very much in electrical terms but in electronic terms, it is amazing what can be driven. 25mA is 0.025Amp and this is not sufficient to drive a motor or globe but there are a number of devices that can be driven.
1. LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) require up to about 25mA for full illumination.
2. Piezo diaphragms require very little current and can be driven directly from an output line.
3. Low-current relays can be driven directly provided they operate at 25mA and 5v. If more than 25mA is required, a driver transistor (also called a buffer transistor or buffer stage) will be needed. The specification for an output line is 25mA @ 5v. In other words the output line has an output voltage of 5v and the maximum current that can be delivered by it is 25mA.The output line will, in theory, deliver more than 25mA but the transistor (in the chip) delivering the current may be damaged (overheated) if a higher current flows. The current delivered by the output line is determined by the resistance of the device (or devices), connected to the line.
The simplest device is a resistor as shown in fig: 1.
If the resistance of the resistor is too low, more than 25mA will flow. If the resistance is high, less than 25mA will flow. The current flow is not determined by the chip but by the value of the resistor. The resistor is called the LOAD RESISTOR or simply the LOAD.
THE VALUE OF THE LOAD RESISTOR
The resistance of the load resistor is worked out using Ohm's Law. We know the voltage on the output line is 5v. This is V in the formula. The max current available is 0.025A = I in the formula. Ohms Law states: I = V/R (Current equals volts divided by resistance). This equation can be re-arranged as:
R = V/I
Putting the two values into the equation produces:
R = 5/.025
= 200
= 200ohms. A 200 ohm resistor connected to an output line will allow 25mA to flow when the output is HIGH. This is only a theoretical explanation as a resistor on an output line will not perform any function! It won't do anything by itself except get slightly hot. But a resistor will perform more than 20 different functions, depending on where it is placed in a circuit and the value of the components around it. In our first example below, a resistor is added in series with a LED so that the LED will take a maximum of 25mA. The purpose of the resistor is two-fold. Firstly it allows the LED to create a characteristic voltage across it of 1.7v (for a red LED) and secondly it has a value so that 25mA flows through the LED. The resistor will have 5v on one end and 1.7v on the other. These voltage are provided by the chip and the LED and the resistor has nothing to do with creating them. The resistor simply allows a certain amount of current to flow, depending on its value, (25mA) and that's the value worked out above.
A point to note: The '508 has 5 output lines and if all the outputs are delivering 25mA, the total output for the chip will be 125mA. This is slightly above the allowable maximum current of 100mA for the chip but will not be a problem.
Let's go to a practical situation:
cut and pasted this from
http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/25mA.html
they are selling a nice load resistor here
http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ord-L...bs-1-33226.htm
01-10-06, 09:10 AM
#68
Originally Posted by gt3
I think they are still resistors. However, from the ones I have seen for sale, their ohm rating is usually a lot lower (e.g. 6 ohm to more common ones such as 25-50 ohms). They are essentially larger size metal heatsinks which can dissipate heat more efficiently over a greater surface area. I have seen larger sized ceramic encased wire wound resistors (as the one used on audiworld) used in my aftermarket car stereo amplifier and believe me, they get extremely hot!!!! So I guess the trick is to find the appropriate resistor with enough ohms cause less heat production. Hopefully you guys can find one that still permit enough current to the LED bulbs.
mark, where are you? ready to go?
01-10-06, 09:39 AM
#69
I am here alright.... as long as someone provide me with the part and where to get them, you bet my call to Carson will be there ASAP!!! What the hell is ohm and the rest of the terminology.... speak English here plz.... I am just a stupid accountant!!!
01-10-06, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXOTIC
I am here alright.... as long as someone provide me with the part and where to get them, you bet my call to Carson will be there ASAP!!! What the hell is ohm and the rest of the terminology.... speak English here plz.... I am just a stupid accountant!!!
In practcal terms, LED's will likely never burn out in our lifetime. They use far less "juice" to operate. and I have used them in designs for over 20 years. They usually fail during their first turn on due to a defect, then unless they are subjected to a surge current (too much juice) they will last like the Energizer bunny. They are not prone to filament shock (the wire that makes a buld light) like the standard brake/tail. and are very, very efficient light producers.
Placing a piece of tape BEHIND the dash indicator will prevent the warning light from showing and is not detectable (looks fine).
Adding load resistors is not a good idea to simulate the bulb as it "wastes energy" and WILL get hot.
What I am suggesting is that the warning indicator for this function may be an overkill as it will likely never be actvated given an LED's projected lifespan. However, if one wishes to purchase an ECU that may (or may not) work, then go for it... its a personal preference.
Hope that helps answer this in some practical terms.
RMR
01-10-06, 10:03 AM
#71
Originally Posted by GSXOTIC
I am here alright.... as long as someone provide me with the part and where to get them, you bet my call to Carson will be there ASAP!!! What the hell is ohm and the rest of the terminology.... speak English here plz.... I am just a stupid accountant!!!
LOL OMHZ = measurement for resistance which a resistor gives.
Its what used to drop voltage/current
V = IR is the formula used to calculate what we need
V = voltage
I = impediance/current
R = resistance
so if we have a certain voltage and current we need then we can figure out how to achieve it with the right resistor
01-10-06, 01:51 PM
#72
Originally Posted by GSXOTIC
I am here alright.... as long as someone provide me with the part and where to get them, you bet my call to Carson will be there ASAP!!! What the hell is ohm and the rest of the terminology.... speak English here plz.... I am just a stupid accountant!!!
01-13-06, 09:16 AM
#74
Originally Posted by Pearlpower
Just an update on the ECU, I will be down probably next week at Carson to plug it in. The part number is different from the 02-05 and the 06 ECU so that is promising.
Lee
Lee
