SEIDO

iTrader: (1)

What does that mean … "Supra in a Fat Suit" ?

The Supra's wider than the SC300.

Or is it because it's "heavier" / "slower" ?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Considering the Supra was derived from the '91 SC/Soarer chassis I'd say it's more like "The Supra MKIV is a Soarer on a crash diet and power lifting frenzy"

brerrabbit, I also like choosing when I want the tail to get loose rather than the car choosing for me. In my experience, the more suspension parts you swap for Supra TT equivalents the less unpredictable the car becomes. I really have to deliberately try to break the rear loose even in rainy weather now. Snow... I can't comment. It takes some work to get it to that point anyway. It's easier and cheaper to make these cars drift friendly rather than perfect handlers.

Compared to a modern chassis like an Audi A4 I would totally expect a completely different and less wild feel. But I rather like the slight twitchy edge these cars have in the handling department. Many cars made during the same era and well before are a bit more raw compared to many modern high performance cars.

The SC/MKIV were the last of a breed that had one foot in the present and one foot in the past in all the best ways. There are certainly "better" cars and it's not the most practical vehicle for everyone or all conditions but it's unquestionably a unique design both visually and mechanically.

brerrabbit

Kahn, I completely agree about the suspension. I'm of a mindset that I rally don't want to mess with the car- not because I don't want to increase power or handling. I just want to keep the car as it was intended- a boulevard cruiser, as it were.

I've said it before, this car is all about pantomime. It just feels solid, but also as if it has a sense of humor. I give credit where credit is due, and it's something Lexuses of late have been severely lacking: imagination.

Forgive the sacrilege and blasphemy for a minute, folks. Let me explain.

When our cars were designed, Lexus was still in its infancy. So the designers not only had something to prove, they were building something. Even the Granny mobiles (ES, LS) were sights to behold... They were trying to distance themselves from the German turbo-sleds (great word I just came up with) of the day.

Sadly now, a lot of these cars look alike or are so loaded with every feature that they're just... Boring. I've had new Lexus owners come up and start conversations, and a lot of us agree. They just look bland.

Your car may be faster, more aerodynamic, blah, blah... But mine is an SC.

Super Cool.

MDSC

iTrader: (3)

I have love hate relationship with my sc I love the design the powertrain and suspension options I really dislike how uncomfortable and cheaply inside is made . I'm sitting here in a 93 gs300 typing this let me look around . nope no cracked plastic vents or door panels no bleeding climate control etc . I still plan on keeping the sc but there's a lot of things I like about it

mikef

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=MDSC;8373603]I have love hate relationship with my sc I love the design the powertrain and suspension options I really dislike how uncomfortable and cheaply inside is made . I'm sitting here in a 93 gs300 typing this let me look around . nope no cracked plastic vents or door panels no bleeding climate control etc . I still plan on keeping the sc but there's a lot of things I like about it[/QUOTE

mine is fine and its a 93, not all will do that if it was treated right

brerrabbit

MD, that's a serious shame. I realized today when I looked at my grimy baby girl that even in that condition she is still something special. It's why I waited a long time before buying another SC, since my first one was such... A project car. At this age, we seem to run into two overall types: ragged out and cared for (there are younger ears listening, I'd imagine.)

Someone took the time to care for this car, and really take an interest in it. For a 17 year old car, it has the interior of an eight year old one and the exterior of a ten year old machine. Like everything, these cars require an active interest to keep them performing nicely.

I'm serious, though. I have just about every single piece of paperwork on Jessica, and it's little stuff done in the earlier years that prove the commitment. Replacing a single fog lamp, for example... Notes mention the original was cracked. Functioning, but cracked.

The drivers seat looked better than my Audi A4, which I was the second owner and bought at 30k. Clay bar, interior details, weekly washes... That was my therapy for the car. But the previous owners of my car had financial resources to outshine my dedication.

Brings up an interesting question... Is there any limit if the car is respected from day one?

All cars have their quirks and issues after time has elapsed. You may get agitated with the center vent cracking. Ask any Audi owner about the rubber gunk that comes off the switches after years of use (like 4). The stuff still works admirably, but it's just aggravating.

Isn't that the real frustration here?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ All other maintenance and intermittent restoration and modification aside... yes. My only real complaints about the 92-00 SC series (assuming someone cared for said example) are: the interior door surrounds that crack, the choice of solid wood next to plastic A/C vents that crack due to different rates of thermal expansion and contraction, and that the car was never offered with 1JZ-GTE engine options in exactly the same way the overseas Soarer was, since many owners tend to turbocharge these things to reverse engineer what Lexus wouldn't sell in the USA.

Ostensibly, these AND the Soarers were luxury cruisers with some sport in them. Leather goes bad in all cars and suspension bushings and engine maintenance issues crop up in all cars too. Any 17-20+ year old cars are going to have issues but these cars tend to stand out-- for all their shortcomings-- as being superior or equal in certain ways to many competitors of not only their own era but subsequent ones.

And they do it with some flair, which any car person loves.

Anyway, we're all fools to keep pouring money into old cars so what does it matter? No design is perfect and new or old it all comes down to what makes an owner happy, right?

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I used to drive mine in DC all the time and we had a fair amount of snow and never had any problems short of a small dent in my intercooler because of a bump from underneath but then again might not have been the snows fault I think it was mostly the bad road but there was a lot of snow.

I would say things that helped were actually trying not to slide around which is difficult if you see snow as an opportunity to easily loose traction, and also wider tires on the back or some blizzaks.
you can go to a 245 on the stock rim and you can almost always find a used set of blizzak's off an audi around that size for a decent winter setup on the stock wheels.

brerrabbit

Ali, I just saw your sig. I bet that truck of yours is one helluva asset in the snow.

I'm going to look into the Blizzaks you mentioned. This year will probably see me adding some rims (not sure what yet, may go the route of BSanders), and she's going to stay garaged when it snows next year. The roads up here are rutted so terribly and I really don't want to chance it further.

Besides, I can pick up an A4 any old time. Audi isn't gonna stop making their best seller in the near future. Finding a clean SC that some dumbglass hasn't tried to destroy is a taller order.

2jznosht

Lol. The sc does just fine in the snow. I've driven mine out here in Utah during all our storms. Trac on and studded snow tires. I have yet to accidentally experience the sc lose all grip in snow/rain like so many threads suggest...sometimes I wonder how up to par everyone's tires/suspension/alignment are

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ Depends on whether or not you have a modified suspension or if you are stock-- and then what KIND of modification. I can attest that after my Gixxer-Bilstein suspension, TT rear sway bar and LSD my car was a tad on the tail happy side. After a modified "Lance" Alignment the tail-happy quality went down considerably and handling was improved, too.

2JZnosht and Ali -- Would you feel that these cars are safe on snowy roads with 255's in the rear, a Torsen and no TRAC system? Assuming the driver is deliberately taking it easy and not at all trying to test his luck?

I'd like to find some cheap snow tires (Blizzaks or anything else) to fit my TT rims but 235/45-17 and 255/40-17 are pretty oddball for winter rubber. Ice or black ice is what concerns me the most.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

The tires should help it is really half the battle some extra width and snow tires go a long long way. I wish I could go back in time and slap some sense into the person who originally put a 225 on the rear.

Thanks, yeah the 85 4x4 is basically unstoppable in the snow it has a basic 4" lift and of course solid axle so it just keeps going. When the heavy snow comes others stay inside but my wife thinks I am crazy that is when I boot up and take out the truck for some 4x4 fun , that is when it really shines. It works so well in 4x4 I start to get bored and then drift turns and goose it into corners which it handles surprisingly well but takes get used to it, not the same as the SC at all.
now If I could just get it to drive straight on a flat road.. that would be nice...

yeah I bet the studded snow tires help alot, that is also a great idea.

The Blizzaks are a great idea and I think the stock TT wheels come with 225 up front and 255 in the rear so its really not an odd size at all.
I have run 225, 235, 245 up front, and out back I have run stock 225, 245, 255, 275 and eventually I am going to 295 or 305 but need new rims.
I was with you until you said torsen, and generally once a torsen goes on you have gone from a regular car to a sports car with all the precautions and stuff that comes along from owning a rwd sports car. I would unfortunately recommend to park it in the garage or at least get full insurance if you are driving it around, one hit to the rear quarters and these cars are toast, and that usually the part that flys around when you loose it.

I have no trac and I got around in light snow with 245's khumo's which are the all seasons not even winter tires, just takes going a little slower, more breaking distance, and not goosing it cause once you loose traction its gonna take a second for the SC to get it back again and you may have slid into something by then.

you can get around in the winter with the torsen, but with the torsen you have no forgiveness.
normally when you loose traction in the snow you start spinning one tire with no traction which sort of digs you in or doesn't do much and the other tire doesn't move cause its not spinning so you stay in more the same place/angle you were initially until you clutch in so that wheel can slow down and grab traction again, or wait for it to slow down in gear and catch if you can wait that long.
with the Torsen though when you loose it on one wheel the other wheel with tractoin (with traction is key here) is still turning if you don't let off the gas fast enough, and all of a sudden your angles start to go sideways on you and if you are late in reaction you can swing in the direction of the tire that lost traction, or if you do manage to catch it after a certain point your car is also likely to swing back the other way if you don't get your gas just right.

This is why alot of supra owners are afraid/complain about driving in the rain because you loose the safety net in slippery conditions with the lsd, so the idea is if you have a lsd, you don't want to be in the situation where you even start to loose trac, and save driving speed, extre distance, you know all the good driving habbits, plus winter tires and wider tires are all things that help alot with that.

I also had an auto with the same 245's I put on there and that one had trac, honestly the felt about the same difficulty or harder than a manual with no trac because with the auto you can't clutch in when a wheel starts slipping to slow it down to regain traction, so the trac is actually nice on those surfaces on the auto cause it will catch when that one wheel starts to spin fast and will force you to go straight again, on a manual, you are left to do that for yourself but a little practice in an open parking goes a long way.

If you do have to do it though, tt wheels with blizaks are a great idea because you can fit all the sizes of winter tires you will find, and honestly anything under a 245 rear tire is just a joke on an SC in my opinion. upgrading wheel/tires will give your SC more confidence in all conditions.
Also the 16" mk4 n/a rims can also make a decent winter set they are not as wide but still wide enough for the purpose.

2jznosht

The tires are where it's at. The car guys all go snow tire in the winter. I haven't turned the trac off outside of empty parking lot fun, but my other car is a 560sec that I was forced to drive through the mountains in a snowstorm. That car does not have a trac system and it did fine with all season tires. If you are taking it easy not trying to test your limits I would say you will be fine assuming your tread depth is appropriate and your alignment and alignment components are up to par.

2jznosht

Also about the LSD...my SC somehow has one and with the trac on it is fine. Again I haven't driven with the trac off in bad weather, but I tend to push the car with it on. Assuming you can drive and are cautious I don't see a problem. My girl has chosen to drive the 560 in the snow over her scion xb and the 560 and sc are fairly similar cars with the 560 having more torque and more of it in lower rpms...

2jznosht

/snip

Oh yes. Those things are amazing. When the last storm hit during work I had to push a camy and an accord that were stuck out. Bot examples had bald tires. Also when I bought my car I had a stripped camber bolt. Tires and alignment are life savers on slick roads.