2Poor2Buy

Something just occurred to me, please forgive me if I have this wrong or took anything out of context:
Your most expensive build was a 1995 Sc300 5 speed to MK4 TT everything.
You had a 2K mile fully rebuilt 2JZ-GTE block, and a M3 body sitting in your driveway.
What happened to your SC in only 2K miles?
If you had the fully rebuilt block sitting there, all built up to Mk4 TT everything, what is it you could not afford to order? Especially if you subsequently spent $10K on parts to build a S54B32 for a BMW M3 (which as you said your SC300 build was most expensive - thus more than $10K). I would have just grabbed another Toyota body if that was wrecked - SC300, Supra MkII through MkIV, or 240SX would have saved money over building the BMW engine. Even if your 2K mile engine block broke, buying a brand new one would still have saved money, and recouped your loss for whatever reason your engine was pulled at 2K miles.
"my M3 s54 engine swap car could have been california BAR legal had I decided to."
So you haven't been so inclined, passed with ... ahem... details, keep it off-road, sold or registered the car out of state, or haven't hit the biennial inspection yet?
You really push this whole BMW idea, and I believe you that a M3 is a better performance car than an SC or a Supra.
You give compelling reasons; including the buy-in price. If all I want is 225hp/225lbs torque and a low weight (3000lbs?) with LSD that I can thrash around all day at low speeds and not incur expensive repairs, is there a BMW that fits the bill? The SC300 does, besides being a bit heavy even stripped, because I can currently buy the 2JZ-GE long block for $750 and VVTi for $850 used JDM, and pass CA smog with zero problems. ((edit: apparently the EGR system can be hooked up to look right, but will be non-operative, but the smog tech will not be able to recognize the flaw - years ago my 21R was this way, and to do it right would have required drilling material out of the back of the head - easy with a template and the head out - impossible with engine installed)) A 2JZ transplant (body such as 240SX) costs money to convert, money for full accessories of a USDM SC300 car, and then referee certification; doable but expensive to convert.
Okay, so your dog is bigger than our dogs - so to speak. But why push so hard on a Lexus forum to buy a BMW instead of Lexus or 2JZ swap?

wanganstyl

iTrader: (5)

Sc tt bpu I allowed a former friend to drive. Chassis was totalled and I scrapped the entire thing

I had replaced everything on that car with mk4 besides v160 and honestly was just tired of the platform.
Parted out the sc300 and moved on to a better platform for what I liked to do more (I enjoy wheel to wheel racing on track more than wangan runs at high speed due to ridiculous rate of consumption and police).

Cost was not really a concern: my e36m s54 only got a s54 swap: nothing else was needed - no turbos no mk4 brakes all4 corners no swaybars no engine rebuild- the parts to build the bpu sc300 was over 10k all said and done but the bigger cost was TIME.

Check on the cost of a trd lsd for mk4:and the build up costs- its more than a dc2 integra cost.

I could Craigslist a 328i 5 speed e36 for $1200 and it would outpreform a sc300 5 speed (minmal $2500) on track and autocross. Bone stock vs bone stock- a lsd for the sc300 would cost 1x more e36 328i. There are no native oem clutch type lsd units installed in cars in japan or usa- all torsen. Only the trd unit ($1200 naked without install kit) is a clutch type

Sc300 5 speed also costs 2x the bmw 5 speed

Simple economics to suit a small budget as you stated.

A cheal bmw is just much easier and fits youe budget/goals much better than any swap/frankencar.

I dont have any brand loyalty and have had many mazda, toyota, subaru, bmw, a nissan also.

Car is just a car. The 2jz is too outdated compared to cheaper more common options (bmw inline 6 would be an upgrade to a supra mk4 tt).

As for smog: there are many ways to deal with it- obviously if installing a stand alone computer in obd2 car I had it figured out ahead of time.

One can choose the oem s54 computer if desired: even easier and cheaper to do (only about 6k-7k to do s54 swap with stock computer)

2Poor2Buy

This thread is pretty tapped out, and I learned a lot, thanks guys.
Wanganstyl: The BMW platform is desirable and cheap enough to buy, but doesn't seem as cost effective as you suggest. I called several shops and told them I was buying a Lexus or BMW, and some said the Lexus was also expensive for repairs but there was a clear consensus that BMW is extremely expensive to own. A locksmith (that charged me only $12.50 to repair my Acura ignition and give me good keys in front of his storefront!) mentioned the extreme cost of ownership and a customer of his dropped in: her BMW is getting new ignition tumblers for... $600! I was told dealers will not work on a salvage-title BMW, and nobody else can do certain tasks.
You also said you switched from your SC300 to BMW because you were tired of the platform - but I don't think that many of us on a Lexus forum are tired of this platform! Even when we can't afford to buy one.
Acura: as recommended by KahnBB6, I picked up a cash car until I can get a real car that meets my goals. Interesting pattern: because these ricers are so cheap to maintain, junkyards charge a premium for parts; also they appeal to a rather seedy group and if I install any serious upgrades my 97 Acura ends up at risk of being stolen and stripped.
SC300 5-speed: I may pick one up shortly and use it long term until I can buy a 2005+ autocross car and do the usual upgrades, to use as a GT car. Might shave some weight, but not to the point of diminishing returns.
240SX: Last model years may achieve my goals, though I'd rather go Lexus/Toyota. Nice platform for a 2JZ conversion. Not quite a Lexus...
Pre-smog body: just learned the fabricator I have in mind mostly does tiny bodies, and considers a 240Z a big car, and would rather clone a Lotus from scratch. He is checking measurements and details, to see if he can efficiently install Lexus IS300 subframes in a Datsun 240Z. Why IS300? Slightly narrower, also AWD Gita Wagon in Japan, only 4" wider than Datsun 240Z, though wheelbase is 15" longer - not sure how the geometry can be corrected, though the rare 2+2 body might match up better. Likewise framing and extending the nose 15" for a huge engine bay would be interesting at Datsun meets.

2Poor2Buy

Quick update:
Original concept was to take a sports coupe and turn it into it's racecar brother, still fitting my giant dog in back.
(Lexus SC300 5-speed -->>> Toyota Supra NA) Turns out impractical, especially for autocross.

I found a parallel:
I figured a Nissan 350Z would not work for me, even though they win in autocross, as there's all that stuff behind the rear seats. They are now dropping in price to within reach for a 2003. Two solutions to that:
1. Being a shared platform with the G35 coupe which has rear seats, the 350Z has non-structural rear bar with speakers and cubby holes which can be removed making plenty of space for the giant dog (350Z 2+2 is easy by installing G35 seats, but not suitable for adult passengers). I tried to insert a photo in this message, but couldn't. Search for "350Z 2+2" in Google if you want to see it done.
2. Infiniti G35 6-speed coupe, with an extra weight of 215lbs vs base 350Z. (a 2005 is for sale at $8500 private party at the moment) It appears that model goes for less than the 350Z equivalent. Very similar to SC300 & Supra MkIV relationship.

The newer turbo 4 bangers were all nice suggestions, but I like NA grunt, and the 350Z with it's VQ series engine keeps increasing in power every year, with increasing redline and flatter torque curve, so the idea would be to buy the newest possible.

Dropping a 2JZ-GE or a VQ series engine into a 240SX (can't use RB or SR in California) would make a fine autocross car, but the 350Z seems to be better stock for less money than sorting out the swap.

My Lexus IS-F or LFA will have to wait!

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

2poor2buy, the SC300/5 with modification regardless of its horsepower probably won't make the best autocross car but it can handle if you put the right suspension setup on it. It makes up for that with its brilliant real-world practicality. Gas mileage aside, of course. If you like NA grunt and still think about considering it you can make those 225 horsepower do a bit more than you think if you concentrate on the brakes, suspension, seats, rear diff and final drive ratio. A turbo is always better but you can do a lot to make the car FAR tighter and sportier than factory without a 2JZ-GTE, 1JZ-GTE or kit. Racing against powerful cars is another story but what do you want more: balance and control or outright power? I opted to focus on control and balance before I got into more power. I've driven cars that handle but are absolutely terrible with acceleration. The 2JZ-GE, with its meager 225hp/210ft-lbs, isn't one of those. Not when you change the final drive ratio.

Further, I think swapping a 2JZ-GE with a W58 manual into an S14 240SX is a great legal alternative. S14 Silvias came with 205hp turbo SR20 engines from the factory anyway so it would make sense and give you a really nice inline six engine to play with.

But Wanganstyl does make really compelling arguments about BMW's. I agree with him that the SC/Soarer/SupraMKIV platform is outdated but current standards but not to the degree that it is an unresponsive platform that can't be used for anything but 500hp+ highway runs.

As for the new turbocharged cars abound now... we'll see a lot more turbocharged cars as time goes on. Personally I like turbos over NA but to each his or her own.

The G35/37 is a nice platform but it will be similar to the SC in weight but possibly may be a better stock package in Coupe 6-speed manual trim: standard on 6-speeds is a 290hp VQ engine and Brembo four piston brakes front and two piston rear. I do not know if they came with an LSD standard but I think they did. I looked at one before I got my SC. For a stock package it's very good. Adding horsepower is expensive and a hassle with smog but It's got a far better power to weight ratio than a stock SC300 5-speed already. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds if I recall.

Other than the dog problem, I'd really just suggest an FR-S in the future. I've driven one and it's really a great driver's car. Practical, engaging, capable and autocross-worthy. And they will make one that has more than 200hp soon.

2Poor2Buy

Just Found:
A full tube-frame custom racecar, smog-exempt, clean CA title, using the outer shell of a Datsun 510 (plus mixed Datsun/Nissan suspension/brakes) that was intended for a 2JZ-GTE twin turbo and R154 tranny. He got to the point of dry fitting the engine/tranny, and had an accident (the man, not the car, I didn't ask details) so the engine/tranny have gone elsewhere and this fully framed racecar has been sitting. Spent $7K on fabrication, and can't sell it for $2K. I could buy that roller and tow it home, found a Datsun club with resources and help (body and such), a local DIY professional paid shop where I can work on it for a fee, and someone who has a garage where I can work on it for trade for help with chores.

Here's the question for this forum, though I may repeat the basic question in a new thread:
Since it has been built around a 2JZ-GTE, obviously I can drop in a 2JZ-GE (even with VVTi), but would a 1UZ-FE drop in just as nicely?
What about the 3UZ-FE?
And would a late model RWD V6 drop onto the same mounts?

Being a smog exempt car (by all appearances a Datsun 510), I could assemble a Frankenstein engine (RWD block, heads off a performance FWD later car) or any combination.

Finally... what would be the most performance per dollar? Remember that my inclination is non-turbo, wide powerband, autocross use. It might be that a late model RWD V6 with automatic (a combination I wouldn't have considered) could be the best use of the car, due to weight bias.

Is it a Lexus? Well, it would be Lexus powered. Budget matters. Smog laws don't!

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Technically smog laws still matter even with a pre-1974 Datsun body. Sure, you aren't required to get a smog test every year and that sort of takes your car off the radar but it actually is still required to adhere to either the standards of the year of chassis manufacture or the standards for the engine you will be putting in. It is semi-"exempt" only in that you aren't required to test but it is still possible to be singled out by the one jerk officer who wants to see under the hood and his idea of what's worth pursuing or not. Now you can probably do what you want but just be aware of the reality that it's not truly exempt just because it's a classic.

I'm not trying to convince you not to go ahead with your plans because this race chassis seems to be a lot more your style than an SC300 but I think you should be aware of the fact that just because a pre-74 car is exempt from smog testing it is still technically regulated and can be scrutinized with the wrong attention. Datsun 240Z guys have gone into this quite a bit on the hybridz forums.

Anyway, bang for the buck with the engine? First of all, that engine bay will determine whether or not a 1UZ/3UZ or V6 engine will fit as to width.

The best bang for your buck will still be with a 2JZ-GTE swap and an R154 transmission. It's still cheaper and more reliable than going to the expense of PROPERLY supercharging a 1UZ/3UZ V8. A USDM 2JZ-GTE full engine will be more expensive than a JDM Aristo 2JZ-GTE of course.

I wouldn't bother with a V6 swap unless you're looking into a Buick 3.8 Turbo V6 from the 80's. The Nissan VG30DETT is good but complicated and VERY wide. Edit: a VQ35 or VQ37HR swap is also a consideration but not if you plan on converting to a serious turbo system later on. At that point any JZ engine, UZ engine or the Buick V6 turbo engine would be far better.

You also shouldn't discount the venerable GM LS1 and LS2 engines mated to T-56 6-speed transmissions. They will give you similar performance to a 2JZ-GTE stock/BPU and all with natural aspiration.

Cheapest bang for the buck (if it actually fits) is a 1UZ-FE 250hp engine mated to a W58 five-speed manual with a bellhousing adapter. It's proven and popular.

Cheaper than that, given the light weight of that Datsun chassis (far lighter than my 3400lb SC for sure) just find a 1992-1995 (or 96-97 if you prefer OBD2 wiring) 2JZ-GE engine, W58 5-speed transmission and an SC300 NA manual or Supra MKIV NA manual ECU. Run some equivalent of 4.30 or 4.27 rear gears and an LSD and call it a day.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

This is not a 2jz engine swap into whatever forum, this is a sc300 forum and this is way too far off topic now, I think you have gotten alot of information already so I am closing this thread.
If you want it moved to the general forum like car chat, then PM me.