24 Years later... any wheel/tires that make our car better?
11-22-15, 07:32 PM
#1
24 Years later... any wheel/tires that make our car better?
I'm not talking about style, or looks, simply performance, comfort, handling, roll resistance, and what's really important for a quality ride like Lexus intended.
Is their any wheel spec better then the stock 16x7, 225/55/16 set up with the original suspension components?
Is their any combination out there that will decrease the roll resistance, and increase comfort over the road? Something that can reduce road noise, and help with handling?
I'm curious as after 24 years there must be solid improvements to be made. As much as I like the look, and handling of coilovers I can't stand the harshness they bring over bumps. Most companies seem to be going for 18-20" wheels as a standard these days, which is a big change from the thicker tires to low profile tires that imo don't feel as good.
After a bit of thinking I believe 235/50R17 would be a great size for our car. What do you guys think? Any thoughts appreciated.
Is their any wheel spec better then the stock 16x7, 225/55/16 set up with the original suspension components?
Is their any combination out there that will decrease the roll resistance, and increase comfort over the road? Something that can reduce road noise, and help with handling?
I'm curious as after 24 years there must be solid improvements to be made. As much as I like the look, and handling of coilovers I can't stand the harshness they bring over bumps. Most companies seem to be going for 18-20" wheels as a standard these days, which is a big change from the thicker tires to low profile tires that imo don't feel as good.
After a bit of thinking I believe 235/50R17 would be a great size for our car. What do you guys think? Any thoughts appreciated.
11-22-15, 09:53 PM
#3
The '92 SC started with 15 inch wheels and larger sidewall tires and for sure the ride was/is elegant.
Here is how they started:
Going to coil overs, lowering the car, and 19 inch wheels with low profile tires really does change the ride dramatically for sure... Rough and you feel every ripple and dimple in the road...
Choices have tradeoffs....
17s with 50 or 55 would improve the ride.... and less performance oriented tires.
Here is how they started:
Going to coil overs, lowering the car, and 19 inch wheels with low profile tires really does change the ride dramatically for sure... Rough and you feel every ripple and dimple in the road...
Choices have tradeoffs....
17s with 50 or 55 would improve the ride.... and less performance oriented tires.
Last edited by Duck05; 11-22-15 at 09:57 PM.
11-22-15, 10:37 PM
#4
I stumbled on the combination largely by accident, but I've got all-season, non-directional 225/50-17 fronts and performance 245/45-17 rears. Overall diameter is the same and matches stock, there's lots of grip in back for the drive wheels, and better wear, wet weather handling, and possibly rough surface comfort in the steering wheels up front. I don't see any particularly good reason why you need the same tread pattern front and back unless you have AWD or are really pushing the handling limits. And it's not like I'll be rotating the tires with staggered wheels (17x8 and 17x9).
11-22-15, 11:11 PM
#5
Biddles, as Duck05 and t2d2 have pointed out, there are improvements that can be made but often there will be at least a slight price paid in terms of overall ride smoothness over harsh surfaces.
Personally I think the best all around wheel set is still the Supra TT rim. They can take a Lexus center cap ( '96 SC300 caps have the same "rounded" style I think) and despite the staggered setup making tire rotation less of an option I do think the wider rears help with overall stability at speed.
I think the 17" size is perfect on our cars. They allow for LS400/TT front calipers for added safety and more diameter isn't really needed to improve handling and stability.
For tires with a good combination of handling, ride quality and treadwear I so far love the BFGoodrich Comp2. A performance summer tire but one which I have found to be very long lasting, significantly sticky for road use and safe for calm driving in rain. That's only one of many. I like Bridgestone Potenza S-03's but they have poor treadwear. Some newer Michelins (Pilot Sport??) might be good but often I've found them to be more expensive.
I use them in 235/45-17 front and 255/40-17 rear. With a speedo corrector box. I suppose a 265/40-17 would better split the difference to get closer to the original tire diameter the car came with. I also like having some degree of sidewall even though this isn't a tremendous amount compared to what most SC's came with from the factory.
Other than tires, shock absorbers are the biggest improvement since the early 90's.
I really do think the Bilstein AK1242 and AK1243's made for the Supra are some of the best near-OEM improved shocks we can use. For the springs to use with them, however, that's the tricky part. I've been happy for the most part with the Gixxer_Drew setup I've been on at 600/325 Hypercoil (linear) springs but as you've noted, like other coil overs, even this configuration can be harsh over some poorly maintained surfaces. On smooth roads it's perfection. I've been waiting to install a set of 500/250 Hypercoil springs to detune the harshness a bit. I'll have to get back to you on how those change my ride quality. I'm at a near stock ride height as well.
Perhaps the best OEM-like spring to use would be the nearly-discontinued factory Supra TT front and rear springs (progressive rate). I think a lot of people have commented that Supra TT shocks and springs wake up the car while not providing too much of an aggressive ride. I'd just amend that to include the Bilstein AK shocks.
Another thing you can do is to go with a Supra TT rear sway bar setup or the mildest aftermarket rear sway bar designed for the SC/Soarer.
Ultimately none of these options that aren't 100% track performance minded are going to bring out the maximum potential of the chassis but that's not the point of your thread question, either. A fair amount of the de-tuning Lexus did to this car when they brought it over had to do with making the ride smoother at the expense of having more body roll. Even the rubber formulation in many of the bushings is intended to be softer at the expense of crisp control versus the physically same but differently formulated rubber suspension bushings used in the Supra. This is also why front lower control arms from an MKIV can improve front end handling a tiny bit.
I think there are a good handful of ways to split the difference and still have good ride quality without the ultimate harshness of a coil over but most aftermarket suspension setups aren't catering to that idea, sadly.
Now I do think there may be an alternative in some of the electronically adjustable suspensions on the market but I don't have any experience with them. And that's getting into some serious expense.
Personally I think the best all around wheel set is still the Supra TT rim. They can take a Lexus center cap ( '96 SC300 caps have the same "rounded" style I think) and despite the staggered setup making tire rotation less of an option I do think the wider rears help with overall stability at speed.
I think the 17" size is perfect on our cars. They allow for LS400/TT front calipers for added safety and more diameter isn't really needed to improve handling and stability.
For tires with a good combination of handling, ride quality and treadwear I so far love the BFGoodrich Comp2. A performance summer tire but one which I have found to be very long lasting, significantly sticky for road use and safe for calm driving in rain. That's only one of many. I like Bridgestone Potenza S-03's but they have poor treadwear. Some newer Michelins (Pilot Sport??) might be good but often I've found them to be more expensive.
I use them in 235/45-17 front and 255/40-17 rear. With a speedo corrector box. I suppose a 265/40-17 would better split the difference to get closer to the original tire diameter the car came with. I also like having some degree of sidewall even though this isn't a tremendous amount compared to what most SC's came with from the factory.
Other than tires, shock absorbers are the biggest improvement since the early 90's.
I really do think the Bilstein AK1242 and AK1243's made for the Supra are some of the best near-OEM improved shocks we can use. For the springs to use with them, however, that's the tricky part. I've been happy for the most part with the Gixxer_Drew setup I've been on at 600/325 Hypercoil (linear) springs but as you've noted, like other coil overs, even this configuration can be harsh over some poorly maintained surfaces. On smooth roads it's perfection. I've been waiting to install a set of 500/250 Hypercoil springs to detune the harshness a bit. I'll have to get back to you on how those change my ride quality. I'm at a near stock ride height as well.
Perhaps the best OEM-like spring to use would be the nearly-discontinued factory Supra TT front and rear springs (progressive rate). I think a lot of people have commented that Supra TT shocks and springs wake up the car while not providing too much of an aggressive ride. I'd just amend that to include the Bilstein AK shocks.
Another thing you can do is to go with a Supra TT rear sway bar setup or the mildest aftermarket rear sway bar designed for the SC/Soarer.
Ultimately none of these options that aren't 100% track performance minded are going to bring out the maximum potential of the chassis but that's not the point of your thread question, either. A fair amount of the de-tuning Lexus did to this car when they brought it over had to do with making the ride smoother at the expense of having more body roll. Even the rubber formulation in many of the bushings is intended to be softer at the expense of crisp control versus the physically same but differently formulated rubber suspension bushings used in the Supra. This is also why front lower control arms from an MKIV can improve front end handling a tiny bit.
I think there are a good handful of ways to split the difference and still have good ride quality without the ultimate harshness of a coil over but most aftermarket suspension setups aren't catering to that idea, sadly.
Now I do think there may be an alternative in some of the electronically adjustable suspensions on the market but I don't have any experience with them. And that's getting into some serious expense.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-22-15 at 11:20 PM.
11-23-15, 03:48 PM
#7
Great stuff as usual, thanks guys. I just bought some Tokico HP Blue struts front and back, I've read a few people claiming that these are the best replacements other then going OEM so I'm looking forward to installing them. I didn't really give springs much thought, do you think they need replacing after 135K?
I guess I'll be hunting for a set of Supra wheels too. I'm in New York and the roads are pretty ****ty(especially by my house) and the car feels noticeably different from when I purchased it 17K miles ago. I miss how quiet, and smooth it used to be over every bump. Now the harshness has caused a few new rattles, which drives me crazy.
I guess I'll be hunting for a set of Supra wheels too. I'm in New York and the roads are pretty ****ty(especially by my house) and the car feels noticeably different from when I purchased it 17K miles ago. I miss how quiet, and smooth it used to be over every bump. Now the harshness has caused a few new rattles, which drives me crazy.
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11-23-15, 05:54 PM
#8
"comfort, handling, roll resistance"
Probably will never be able to improve on all three unless you just get modern tires with better technology in the same size as the stock tires.
Any time you put bigger wheels on with smaller sidewall, comfort will suffer but performance will increase.
Probably will never be able to improve on all three unless you just get modern tires with better technology in the same size as the stock tires.
Any time you put bigger wheels on with smaller sidewall, comfort will suffer but performance will increase.
11-23-15, 06:38 PM
#9
Only up to a point, and I'm not even sure what that point is... Track oriented cars don't rock nearly the minuscule sidewalls as you'll find on many aftermarket setups nowadays. Some sidewall flex is a good thing. From a pure performance standpoint, a smaller wheel and taller sidewall tends to be better.
11-23-15, 08:26 PM
#10
Only up to a point, and I'm not even sure what that point is... Track oriented cars don't rock nearly the minuscule sidewalls as you'll find on many aftermarket setups nowadays. Some sidewall flex is a good thing. From a pure performance standpoint, a smaller wheel and taller sidewall tends to be better.
This is the winner at the Indy 500 in 2015. Look at 'dem side-walls!
11-23-15, 09:14 PM
#12
Only up to a point, and I'm not even sure what that point is... Track oriented cars don't rock nearly the minuscule sidewalls as you'll find on many aftermarket setups nowadays. Some sidewall flex is a good thing. From a pure performance standpoint, a smaller wheel and taller sidewall tends to be better.
11-23-15, 10:09 PM
#14
Yeah some.... I'm not talking rubber band 25 series stretched hellaflush tires. Nor am I referring to 70 series (or whatever it is on oem 15s). I think we can both agree having too much sidewall on skinny *** wheels on a heavy car won't get you any performance. Neither will stupid small profile tires.
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