2Poor2Buy

Several responses said BMW E36 M3, and to consider 3-series in general. I'd choose a 5-spd Coupe, but sedan if I must. Found some in or near my price range, though mostly >200K miles, mostly 3 series not M3, and found 5 & 7 series cars, and E46 series in reach. Haven't found a weight comparison yet.

Major issue: What do these cost to maintain? I nearly bought a Celica GT-S a few days ago, until I priced out a replacement of the broken 2nd gear syncro & worn out clutch and (as random item to test) the alternator. That car was "only" $7500 for a 2004, but would have cost a lot of money to fix immediately and then maintain.

On a SC300/400, I anticipate I could get used (and aftermarket) parts including an engine for cheap. Is that true, and how does a BMW compare? FYI: I maintained my two Supras myself, buying Toyota parts from a Toyota dealership in Texas that shipped at wholesale for SOGI club members.

I've found several beautiful BMW's for less money than even economy cars by Toyota & Honda. Something doesn't seem to add up. It may be that the purchase price is so low because the maintenance cost is too high. Cost of ownership is a big deal.

2Poor2Buy

Thanks everyone for all your insight. There are a few nearby incomplete projects for sale, and I may build something like it when my living situation changes. There was a SC300 manual transmission car for relatively cheap and excellent condition - no engine. A late model 240SX that has a mystery problem after a home-installed clutch. A Supra MkIII scattered across a garage. For that matter, I could use any Supra MkII or MkIII for a fully legal engine swap to 2JZ, a 240Z body with locally available custom fabrication to install whatever subframes I want, 93-95 RX7 LS1/T56 (thanks KahnBB6), or other similar project. For now, that is all on hold; and still I may simply buy an Evo in a few years.

Family pressure to buy something immediately on a reduced budget forced me to compromise heavily. So I bought a low mileage car, then discovered the mileage is fraudulent using CarFax - I only learned the VIN after getting the car and was in a hurry. I highly recommend spending the money on CarFax (5 reports for $50) to anyone before buying a car. The seller is reimbursing me partially, forcing the previous seller (who is easily proven to be the one who replaced the odometer and lied about it) to reimburse some in exchange for not filing a civil suit. Once that money is in hand... we'll report it to the DMV and FEDS! Let them go after the guy criminally, and as promised, we will not go after the fraudster civilly. Besides, anyone who has dealt with civil court knows; it costs too much to pursue a case and then it can be hard to collect. So throw the guy in jail. (The federal law called TIMA, and other such laws make lying about car mileage a major felony)

Here's what I ended up getting for now. I may simply drive it a while before trading it up, but available parts and simple change to the "Type R" components, plus cheap fiberglass body kits (if I want to make this little go-kart death trap even more dangerous), make this a somewhat fun little car:
1997 Acura Integra RS (base model) B18B1 engine, S80 5-speed transmission
(physically easy to "Frankenstein" or swap to B18C1 and S80 LSD, but can be expensive)
theft recovery, salvage title, maybe 210K miles, slapped together after who-knows-what, though unibody damage seems unlikely.
junkyard parts abundantly available, and I can legally change it to a Type-R for smog laws (changing to a different variation of the same model is legally simpler) (195hp stock, 2800lbs stock, with even more power and lighter weight available), and though I can't duplicate the factory improvements on the chassis (though a roll-cage could approximate them) I can change it to a Type-R if I can find original or aftermarket parts. While I will not actually have a Type-R, and may or may not make such modifications, here are some quotes about the Type-R:
Evo magazine... named the Type R 'the greatest front-wheel-drive performance car ever.'
TheAutoChannel.com ... named it 'the best handling front-wheel drive car ever.
0-60 times vary according to source, from 6.1 to 6.9 seconds.

I doubt I'll spend much money to optimize this car, but having possession of it only 24 hours, I've already stripped the rear interior including drilling out permanent mounts for the 2+2 seats. I've got a lot of junkyard shopping to do as the locks and ignition don't work well, it is way too easy to steal, and the jerk that made it appear to be a low-mileage car made many errors that I have to correct. My first big expense: a quality alarm system! It isn't that the car is worth much, it is just that it is extremely easy to steal and strip for any Ricer out there.
So without too much expense: up to 200hp, 140+lb ft torque, maybe 2700lbs, five-lug and bigger brake conversion, possibly shed some more weight up front. Will it win any competitions? Maybe, but I don't intend to even try. Is it fun to drive even as is, absolutely! I named it my "Go-Kart." The Ricer exhaust is humourous which I may correct: stock pipe all the way back to a coffee can muffler.

A Supra or Lexus will have to wait, likewise any truly competitive car - though I might get used to this little Acura and achieve most of my goals on LSD. (take that phrase however you want!)

Not for autocross; just a fun way to get around while I wait for an opportunity to get something better. Hopefully cheap maintenance. Even if a legal kit is available, I don't think I'll install a turbo on this FWD.

Let me fore-stall the obvious remark: this is basically an over-glorified Honda Civic hatchback!
It isn't what I wanted to get, it is the best I could get under time-pressure, and can always replace it later.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I thought there were some really nice inexpensive RWD and AWD cars that were discussed here, not sure how you can chose a base Integra RS after all that. it will be alright cause its a stick but yeah I wouldn't start pouring my money into a salvage car with mileage problem. you could have had a celica-supra or a automatic SC as a starting point, or a mk3 5spd and then save up for goodies/swaps.

So your next car will be a Toyota or Lexus right?

2Poor2Buy

Yes, A Lexus/Toyota RWD compact sports car would be my preference. Unfortunately previous management didn't choose to make any. I nearly bought a MkIII Supra at 200K miles, two owner, but because my elderly dad gave me the money and vetoed it, what can I do? SC? Absolutely though heavy, but very limited selection in my location. BMW M3: Great, but not only limited selection, but also wouldn't get the 'dad' approval. MkII Supra is a body I would use for a full project, but too old to use as is. MkIV - too expensive. MR2 - not with my current giant dog.

The FWD Celicas don't impress me. The 2004 GT-S I test-drove felt fragile, bogged down at 3000rpm's, had lousy visibility, felt fragile, and came from the factory/dealer with a ridiculous wing and over-the-top styling. Non GT-S (by what I read) have greater reliability due to 1ZZ-FE and low performance. Previous generations were not as good as Honda's offerings. GT-Four was a consideration until I learned (on this thread) that it is a plow in autocross. RWD Celica (1985 and older) are just too old to compare.

What I'm doing was suggested on this thread: get a grocery getter to use for a while, and pick up a recent generation AWD Turbo when they come down in price (currently at least $15K for Evo or Subie 2.5 Turbo AWD).

Purpose of this Acura? Low speed play, spent $1800 ($2800 minus hoped-for refund money) so beat the hell out of it for a while without depreciation, do the obvious junkyard swaps, maybe used-parts upgrades, maybe even spend real money on it if it seems worthwhile, and sell it to some Ricer kid when I can get a real car - maybe even break even. If I can get "Type-R" performance from it, keep it around four years or until I get a garage again and build up a project car (RWD, big engine, light body) or can afford to purchase one of the newer AWD Turbo cars discussed.

Also, CA had a 25 year smog exemption law, then froze it at 1975 and even had a proposed bill to inspect older cars. But in 2012 a proposed bill that would have moved the smog inspection year to ~1987 was struck down. If I wait a few years, I might be able to build a MkII Supra with MkIV equipment without inspection. I might still do this; but it will cost more money if I have to follow strict guidelines. How's this for a proposal for a law? all cars over 25 years need only pass tail-pipe emissions on a rolling test, equipment used is ignored. THAT would be sensible.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

sounds like you have a lot of limitations to work around but you have a plan which is always good to have.
good luck and hopefully you make it over to the good side of the force (toyo/lex) sooner than later.

GZZ-TT

iTrader: (5)

Subaru 93-up Impreza Coupe!

2Poor2Buy

I merely picked up the Acura because it was readily available, handles corners really well and with the hatchback area gutted fits my giant dog (even the spare is behind the driver's seat to make room).
The non-turbo Impreza coupe is off topic (similar performance as temporary car, doesn't fit the dog)
If you must fill the thread with a giant picture, here's one:

BTW: He was still a pup in this photo (not filled out) and I'm 6'1.5" tall. He's around 6.5 feet long. Please don't post to ask more about the dog.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

As a commuter it's not bad to go with an Integra. I owned a gen5 Prelude manual and while I'd compare them they are significantly different cars and the Integra is probably more auto-x capable assuming you swap in a B18C and LSD and work on the suspension. But the theft probability is what concerns me. Also, since you know what you want but have to hold off for now, I'd focus less on modifying it too much.

All in all, for the price it's not a bad buy as long as the odometer issue was the worst of the hidden issues.

Just enjoy it, take a break from all this research for now and regroup for a different car later. I made a thread very similar to yours when I went on my car search in Cali three years ago. It was exhausting and the limitations the state has are horrendous overkill from a tailpipe emissions standpoint. I bought my SC much in he same manner you bought your Integra and you know what? It had a straight body but some serious issues with the brakes. But it was a bargain car. I traded your criteria of cost of ownership for the RWD platform but the price I have paid (as most of us do here) is abysmal gas mileage but easy if slightly pricey maintenance in my garage-- something you mentioned wasn't possible at this time.

Point being... Integra, SC, Impreza RS, old M3/3-Series E36, etc.... it's all relative. I had hit a bottleneck with my car's power to weight ratio in CA (YES, a legal 2JZGTE swap is expensive if doing it correctly) but I got it decent enough and I like the thing. You can do exactly the same with the Integra if you wish and still avoid spending a fortune or just take it as far as you think it should go.

The ideal power to weight ratio, ideal average horsepower, ideal front to rear bias and ideal driven wheels are all factors that are difficult to satisfy on a small budget and without much time to find the best car you can.

As long as it doesn't have serious issues, I think it's a fine car. Part of the thing I think we may forget as enthusiasts is sampling different cars from time to time. Whatever you get that is closer to your ideal may not represent your then-relevant ideal in that future. Although I'm sure you'll get something faster by then but I digress.

Enjoy the car! It serves the purpose and is at least intended by its designers to be fun. I think any car should at least be fun to drive even if it's basic transportation, so there you go

2Poor2Buy

Quick update:
97 Acura Integra RS: fun in a Go-Kart sort of way, upgrades appear just as expensive as real cars because so many ricers like them that the prices are artificially inflated. The online community are a bunch of punks. I'll drive this thing until it fails and then sell it. Now that I have transportation, I may find an opportunity to build a real car in a shed somewhere. Several incomplete projects are available cheap. Preference list:

Datsun Z car, 510, or some other widely available pre-smog light body, custom fabricated ladder/tube frame. Z cars have the additional benefit of having fiberglass body kits available and significant aftermarket support. Subframes and drivetrain selection will depend on many factors, not least that some current model JDM engines/transmissions (and subframes) can be bought cheaper than their real value due to supply vs demand. Not ruling out LS1/T56, but primary plan has always been to use a Toyota big engine RWD. Now that AWD Turbo systems are matured, such a system could be utilized in the Z-car engine bay leaving a huge amount of space for turbo(s), custom radiators, large oil cooler, intercooler, and cold-air intake system, setting up for 25% of weight per wheel. Such a system would be much lighter and more suitable to autocross type behavior (though not competitive at SCCA events, due to being moved to open class against "super-cars").

Same idea as above, but with the body/frame/suspension/brakes already sorted, so just an engine/transmission swap.

Supra MkII body (if the right one comes along) to build with 2JZ, UR, or some late model RWD Toyota engine used in the US (usually trucks) but able to be imported from Japan, because the JDM longblocks can be bought for a song. Wiring and smog will be the major issues, and the engine can be built as a Frankenstein combination with the truck block casting but internals from FWD performance variants. (similar variations on the theme exist, no point listing them all)

Lexus SC300 5-speed (I called the CA BAR, a tech told me trying to swap to manual from automatic is completely not worthwhile under CA smog; so a SC400 is out if I want a stick. Pretty stupid isn't it?)

Lexus IS300 manual.

S14 240SX - may keep the anemic K24DE, and use the extensive aftermarket for sorting everything else.

Supra MkIII basically stock. Was expensive to own over 12 years ago, probably still expensive. (Supra MkIV would be great, but I doubt I can afford one)

The newer little turbo cars are certainly of interest, but I much prefer solid machines; as I'm reminded driving around this little death trap Integra.

SEXC

iTrader: (2)

If you plan to get an sc300/400 and you want to save some weight I recommend you look for one without the sunroof. They are hard to find but you'll be down a few pounds without doing any mods. You should also consider the LSx engine swap since it will give you more power and less weight. Good luck

2Poor2Buy

Good point about the sunroof, that's what I did selecting this Integra. Maybe an auto-customizer can chop up a SC body (are those groans I'm hearing?) to make something lighter than a Supra.

Here's how to really save weight, using the budget of a manufacturer: cut the entire body off the floorpan, drop on a little coupe body (maybe Scion tC) and frame it out to be rigid. This is in essence what the Supra MkIV is, though they didn't choose to make it super-light as they should have.

I proposed this to a race-fabricator, and they will only do pre-smog bodies if it will go on the road, and even then they use just the subframes from the donor, build a custom complete frame, and mate the pre-smog body of my choice. Unfortunately 1975 and older light bodies are hard to come by, especially with the track and wheelbase of desired donors. A heavily widened fiberglassed 240Z (up to 1975 280Z) is nearly the only practical choice though he mentioned a suitable Volvo. (I brought this up on this thread several times, I'm just giving more information)

There is another possible way around smog: I think Kit Cars are permanently exempt. A custom frame that holds SC/Supra MkIV subframes (or Soarer or whatever they are called elsewhere) and a Kit body might work out. Of course, I'd never spend the insane money to build a kit; but there are lots of them half-finished and abandoned at a huge loss. Might be worth pursuing, though I don't think my pockets are deep enough. Even then, one has to decide what donor is the best choice: one designed nearly 25 years ago, or something from the last few years that I can get a front clip from Japan and rear subframe from Japan or a wrecked US car.

I digress. Sorry about that.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I too did a lot of research into an SC400 auto to manual swap and the problem is that even if a transmission isn't a smog device, the BAR sees this as a non-standard engine configuration that was never offered in any US vehicle. It is rather dumb of them, yes, but never try to make sense out of the reasoning of the ARB or BAR. Assuming all smog gear was intact and no CEL lights were triggered (there are now proven solutions for this) it would perform like a factory vehicle. This is especially disheartening considering the 98-00 SC400's have very respectable stock horsepower.

Now, swapping a 92-97 SC300 Auto to a manual should be acceptable to the BAR because it was an engine configuration that was offered in all 50 states. Whatever was mentioned about that in negative would have been incorrect-- those years would have been a legal swap. And if you preferred to leave in the 4.27 auto ratio and add a speedo corrector to compensate, you'd have slightly better acceleration than a stock SC3/5. Or you could locate an original 5-speed again. I recommend the latter. Even without a turbo, you can build quite a fun car from one with some work.

An IS300 5-speed manual often came with or had the option of a factory Torsen LSD. Not a bad package all around and they look good.

An MKIV Supra 5-speed (or auto you wish to convert to manual) is not a bad choice but as you know they are terribly expensive. For the sake of argument I will say that given their slightly lighter weight than the SC300 5-speed (3,500lbs in factory trim) and factory 4.27 final drive they will be a lot of fun to throw around. I believe they are 3200lbs stock whereas the TT's are 3400-3500. The NA manuals only need 17" rims, a brake upgrade and LSD installed to take advantage of their lighter curb weight. It's possible to reduce a bit more weight from the car before you're looking at losing the interior. Again, all hypothetical since they all cost a small fortune.

Covering all three of the most popular 2JZ powered cars, you have to look at maximizing the chassis and final drive ratio if you are limited to an NA engine. A catback exhaust is nice for sound but won't give you more power. The stock airboxes are better than any aftermarket intakes. You can make any of the three cars respectably quick and sharp handling in manual form. "Fast" is only going to happen with a turbo, however.

The kit car exemption will cost you more than you probably want to think about. Yes, it's possible but it's not for small budgets. And even if they upped the yearly 500 car limit it will still be difficult if you wait in line on Jan 1st only to be turned away when/if they reach their quota.

Sticking with a pre-1974 vehicle may be your best bet if you want to tinker with the engine. It doesn't truly exempt you but it sure does make it easier to own a hobbyist car. The 240/260/280Z and 510 ideas are excellent but as you know any classic will require more work than you initially expected or budgeted for.

2Poor2Buy

Thanks Kahn,
Now that I've been driving around an Integra Go-Kart for a little while, I'm giving much more consideration to buying a damaged SC300 5-speed now and building it up.
I like a bigger, tougher engine - my old 20R/22R engines with W50 transmissions (Celicas and Trucks) had good personality and would take a beating all day long, so maybe a S14 240SX would suit me similarly, though by far my best cars ever have been two Supras.

I started to bring up a related subject here, but decided to make it a new thread:
Carbon Fiber for SC weight loss program?

I'll start that momentarily.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

there is a thread for that stuff already. there are even CF doors available that drop a lot of weight from the SC, but makes it much much less safe. perfect for race usage though but very expensive.

The SC is a great chassis on its own, and the chassis is very close to that of a supra.
I don't really like the term "cheap supra". in many ways it can be better than a supra and at one point in time was just expensive as one without even being turbo. I prefer the longer wheelbase of the SC because its more predictable, and I like the exterior styling better on the SC.
That being said the Mk4 supra tt was way ahead of its time and overall I prefer that better in stock form.
both are true GT car chassis, which come with some extra weight but a huge amount of extra power.
its a much easier and rewarding path to lighten up an SC which you can fit supra parts into than to reengineer a whole other car from the subframe up.

give this thread a read.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...worksheet.html

2Poor2Buy

No point in a new thread, there's one titled: "Weight reduction worksheet"
It is currently at 17 pages, which I'll carefully read through before writing any comment. Maximum weight reduction is my goal.

Supposing I can achieve a weight below 3200lbs, 3000lbs would be even better, and can find a worthwhile donor (especially one that saves money because it is cosmetically thrashed) I'll build an SC300 5-speed to keep really long term.

Supposing I can afford the plan, and get the approval of CA smog BAR/ARB/referee, building a 2JZ-GTE (rebuild the CT26 to extremely fast spool, modest total boost) would be ideal.

- driving an Integra Grocery Getter while I work out my real plan.

Ali SC3,
You beat me to it. I only saw your post after clicking send on this post. That is exactly what I'll do, thanks.