2JZGE Na-T TT Ecu Mod
01-05-13, 10:27 AM
#856
IMO the TT ffim is a waste of time. The runners do not match up correctly enough to maintain perfectly even flow, right where it is most important before it hits the head. The air should be straightened out by this time and have some velocity not going through some adapter or a dog welded lower runner.
Man where do I even begin lol.
The TT injectors are a step backwards, you already have the more desirable top feed fuel rail.
If you ever plan on upgrading side feed will be more expensive and harder to find and with TT injectors you have to install the injector resistor pack.
I would install 2 aftermarket ffims before attempting to install 1 gte ffim.
Even after port matching its not perfect and you will have a very narrow area to get a seal if you try and bolt up gte upper to be lower.
If you use all gte and make an adapter between the head, you will increase injector to valve distance, the angle won't be ideal anymore, and your ffim will be close to the shock tower.
The whole Ecu is designed around having even flow to all cylinders as possible.
The o2 sensor averages all 6 runners so if one or 2 are actually leaner than the rest you would never know.
If you have to go this route tune on the rich side.
Stock fuel setup will work just fine, but depending on your boost and power you prob want to get a better fuel pump, but it will start and drive the car just fine.
Man where do I even begin lol.
The TT injectors are a step backwards, you already have the more desirable top feed fuel rail.
If you ever plan on upgrading side feed will be more expensive and harder to find and with TT injectors you have to install the injector resistor pack.
I would install 2 aftermarket ffims before attempting to install 1 gte ffim.
Even after port matching its not perfect and you will have a very narrow area to get a seal if you try and bolt up gte upper to be lower.
If you use all gte and make an adapter between the head, you will increase injector to valve distance, the angle won't be ideal anymore, and your ffim will be close to the shock tower.
The whole Ecu is designed around having even flow to all cylinders as possible.
The o2 sensor averages all 6 runners so if one or 2 are actually leaner than the rest you would never know.
If you have to go this route tune on the rich side.
Stock fuel setup will work just fine, but depending on your boost and power you prob want to get a better fuel pump, but it will start and drive the car just fine.
01-09-13, 01:32 AM
#860
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMO the TT ffim is a waste of time. The runners do not match up correctly enough to maintain perfectly even flow, right where it is most important before it hits the head. The air should be straightened out by this time and have some velocity not going through some adapter or a dog welded lower runner.
Man where do I even begin lol.
The TT injectors are a step backwards, you already have the more desirable top feed fuel rail.
If you ever plan on upgrading side feed will be more expensive and harder to find and with TT injectors you have to install the injector resistor pack.
I would install 2 aftermarket ffims before attempting to install 1 gte ffim.
Even after port matching its not perfect and you will have a very narrow area to get a seal if you try and bolt up gte upper to be lower.
If you use all gte and make an adapter between the head, you will increase injector to valve distance, the angle won't be ideal anymore, and your ffim will be close to the shock tower.
The whole Ecu is designed around having even flow to all cylinders as possible.
The o2 sensor averages all 6 runners so if one or 2 are actually leaner than the rest you would never know.
If you have to go this route tune on the rich side.
Stock fuel setup will work just fine, but depending on your boost and power you prob want to get a better fuel pump, but it will start and drive the car just fine.
Man where do I even begin lol.
The TT injectors are a step backwards, you already have the more desirable top feed fuel rail.
If you ever plan on upgrading side feed will be more expensive and harder to find and with TT injectors you have to install the injector resistor pack.
I would install 2 aftermarket ffims before attempting to install 1 gte ffim.
Even after port matching its not perfect and you will have a very narrow area to get a seal if you try and bolt up gte upper to be lower.
If you use all gte and make an adapter between the head, you will increase injector to valve distance, the angle won't be ideal anymore, and your ffim will be close to the shock tower.
The whole Ecu is designed around having even flow to all cylinders as possible.
The o2 sensor averages all 6 runners so if one or 2 are actually leaner than the rest you would never know.
If you have to go this route tune on the rich side.
Stock fuel setup will work just fine, but depending on your boost and power you prob want to get a better fuel pump, but it will start and drive the car just fine.
Regards to the injectors Im using JDM TT ones so there 440c and will be plug and play with the JDM ecu I guess.
Regards to the 02 sensor mine are not heated, Ive got hold of a TT heated sensor and Im gonna be installing it along with the extra wiring to make the heat circuit work.....where would be the best place to install it in the front or rear position on the stock na manifold?
01-09-13, 07:24 AM
#861
good luck, you are going to need it.
the JDM TT ones would be plug and play into a TT rail, but I have never seen anybody use a gte lower runner and injectors/fuel rail on a na-t. you are going to have your hands full with just that one part.
for the o2 either one would probably work temporarily.
the JDM TT ones would be plug and play into a TT rail, but I have never seen anybody use a gte lower runner and injectors/fuel rail on a na-t. you are going to have your hands full with just that one part.
for the o2 either one would probably work temporarily.
01-10-13, 05:19 PM
#862
Guys also don't forget that you can also use a 1jz or aristo head. sure its alot of work and you have to change the oil pump if you are odb1, but it may be worth it if you plan on doing a TT headgasket anyways you have to pull off the head.
01-10-13, 08:53 PM
#863
Ali sc3 - are you running a FFIM? If so which one? I want to run a XS or weld a greddy 2jzgte one to my 2jzge lower runner? Any comments on either? Now if i don't have a IACV hooked up will i throw a Check engine light. I am running a obd 2 ecu so i can try to pass inspection
01-11-13, 09:47 AM
#864
I made my own based off of the IS300 DIY measurements and I tweaked it some here and there.
Also I used the largest D plenum not the half round style, and I used the premade q45 TB flange cause the Ross machine finish is much nice compared to making your own flange.
http://my.is/forums/f221/diy-kinda-i...alysis-363346/
its very similar to the fsmoto design, but its basically a D plenum and you have to cut and angle the back otherwise you will contact the brake booster, so not much inventive work there. also it helps with keeping the flow more even.
the xs power is just a version of the same thing but their plenum looks to be a bit longer so I can't comment on how it would work out.
MY original plan was to get the greddy knock off and see If I could modify the bottom plate, or like you mentioned getting it welded is not a bad idea because the weakness in the greddy version is that when bolted together (because its so complicated) it can leak between the gaskets over time.
not a bad option but check out the thread I posted above if you really want to go FFIM you can get all the parts and drop it off at a competent aluminum welding shop to get welded up and the 6 holes drilled. A true machinest will also notice that the holes are not perfectly circular, and will reem them out to the exact shape of the gasket. You don't have to get it that perfect but as long as each hole is equal that will be good enough.
either that or just experiment with the XS one and see if it works because the price is good compared to parts and labor that you would have to pay to get one made like I did.
you loose some low end spool, but the throttle response is literally instant with the q45 TB on there.
I don't know if you will have a problem with the IACV not hooked up, but I recommend you weld an IACV flange to the bottom of the IACV (the greddy already has it i think), and then bolt up a 7mgte IACV to it. you can use a 2jzgte on but the 7mgte is a much cheaper unit, and beechperformance sells weld on flanges for the 7M IACV.
still haven't found one for the 2jz IACV, but I wonder if they are the same size flange because they are so similar.
Both the 7mgte and 2jzgte Idle valve plug right into the ge harness no rewiring needed.
at first I just used the q45 cold idle thing on the side, but its a bit sloppy at times and if you care about city driving and not having a permanently higher idle, you would be better off installing the idle valve from the start, vs not liking it and then pulling it all of to get welded again. your gonna have to trust me on this one if you go this route just do it right off the bat, or just stick with the stock intake manifold.
The stock intake manifold is good for plenty of power even the stock throttle body is 2.75" which is more larger than most 60 trim turbo's with 2.5" compressor outlets. It is alot of work from changing throttle cables to removing cruise control and your car wont look stock with one of those on.
Also I used the largest D plenum not the half round style, and I used the premade q45 TB flange cause the Ross machine finish is much nice compared to making your own flange.
http://my.is/forums/f221/diy-kinda-i...alysis-363346/
its very similar to the fsmoto design, but its basically a D plenum and you have to cut and angle the back otherwise you will contact the brake booster, so not much inventive work there. also it helps with keeping the flow more even.
the xs power is just a version of the same thing but their plenum looks to be a bit longer so I can't comment on how it would work out.
MY original plan was to get the greddy knock off and see If I could modify the bottom plate, or like you mentioned getting it welded is not a bad idea because the weakness in the greddy version is that when bolted together (because its so complicated) it can leak between the gaskets over time.
not a bad option but check out the thread I posted above if you really want to go FFIM you can get all the parts and drop it off at a competent aluminum welding shop to get welded up and the 6 holes drilled. A true machinest will also notice that the holes are not perfectly circular, and will reem them out to the exact shape of the gasket. You don't have to get it that perfect but as long as each hole is equal that will be good enough.
either that or just experiment with the XS one and see if it works because the price is good compared to parts and labor that you would have to pay to get one made like I did.
you loose some low end spool, but the throttle response is literally instant with the q45 TB on there.
I don't know if you will have a problem with the IACV not hooked up, but I recommend you weld an IACV flange to the bottom of the IACV (the greddy already has it i think), and then bolt up a 7mgte IACV to it. you can use a 2jzgte on but the 7mgte is a much cheaper unit, and beechperformance sells weld on flanges for the 7M IACV.
still haven't found one for the 2jz IACV, but I wonder if they are the same size flange because they are so similar.
Both the 7mgte and 2jzgte Idle valve plug right into the ge harness no rewiring needed.
at first I just used the q45 cold idle thing on the side, but its a bit sloppy at times and if you care about city driving and not having a permanently higher idle, you would be better off installing the idle valve from the start, vs not liking it and then pulling it all of to get welded again. your gonna have to trust me on this one if you go this route just do it right off the bat, or just stick with the stock intake manifold.
The stock intake manifold is good for plenty of power even the stock throttle body is 2.75" which is more larger than most 60 trim turbo's with 2.5" compressor outlets. It is alot of work from changing throttle cables to removing cruise control and your car wont look stock with one of those on.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-11-13 at 10:02 AM.
01-11-13, 01:32 PM
#865
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Guys,
As were on the subject of FFIM's, here is what Ive been working on, weather its gonna work or not only time will tell once I get it bolted onto the engine the fired up.
Whats been done is using a TT lower runner the bolt pattern has been altered so it bolts right upto a NA head, however the ports are slightly off, u can see in the pic Ive put up, Ive bolted up the NA inlet gasket and the outer 2 ports are almost perfect, but the inner 4 are slightly off, where I have shown the red boxes there is no metal behind the gasket there is approx still another 3-4mm of the port.
From my measurements the TT lower runner ports are approx 57mm at the widest point, and the NA are 50mm, using a dremel Ive taken off the excess on the bits where in the pic u can see the excess part of the port that the gasket does not cover, and Ive made all 4 inner ports over 50mm, now weather its gonna work I shall have to see once I get it all bolted up, but just another idea to try and make work!....
Oh another quick question for u guys, once Ive got everything ready to fire up shall I fire it up using the stock NA spark plugs, or fit in a set of TT plugs even though Im not gonna be running any boost to begin with?
As were on the subject of FFIM's, here is what Ive been working on, weather its gonna work or not only time will tell once I get it bolted onto the engine the fired up.
Whats been done is using a TT lower runner the bolt pattern has been altered so it bolts right upto a NA head, however the ports are slightly off, u can see in the pic Ive put up, Ive bolted up the NA inlet gasket and the outer 2 ports are almost perfect, but the inner 4 are slightly off, where I have shown the red boxes there is no metal behind the gasket there is approx still another 3-4mm of the port.
From my measurements the TT lower runner ports are approx 57mm at the widest point, and the NA are 50mm, using a dremel Ive taken off the excess on the bits where in the pic u can see the excess part of the port that the gasket does not cover, and Ive made all 4 inner ports over 50mm, now weather its gonna work I shall have to see once I get it all bolted up, but just another idea to try and make work!....
Oh another quick question for u guys, once Ive got everything ready to fire up shall I fire it up using the stock NA spark plugs, or fit in a set of TT plugs even though Im not gonna be running any boost to begin with?
01-11-13, 08:44 PM
#866
that actually looks alot better than bolting the 2 runners together, thanks for sharing and keep us posted on how it turns out.
I usually get it running on the old plugs and then swap them out so you dont foul your new plugs if you have any issues getting it started.
If you are not running boost as in no turbo then do not change over to tt plugs, run the stock heatrange and run either copper or Iridium. people say coppers are the best but you change them much more frequently.
If you change to tt plugs which are a colder heat range without a turbo you won't make enough heat wont fully cycle like they are supposed to which is how they keep clean. probably wont make a huge difference though, but no need to change basically.
I usually get it running on the old plugs and then swap them out so you dont foul your new plugs if you have any issues getting it started.
If you are not running boost as in no turbo then do not change over to tt plugs, run the stock heatrange and run either copper or Iridium. people say coppers are the best but you change them much more frequently.
If you change to tt plugs which are a colder heat range without a turbo you won't make enough heat wont fully cycle like they are supposed to which is how they keep clean. probably wont make a huge difference though, but no need to change basically.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-11-13 at 08:48 PM.
01-21-13, 05:05 AM
#867
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys just thought Id update with my progress, I got my NA started up today on the TT ecu with the VVti coils, ignitor and also using the whole TT fuel, intake, TB and sensors. After a few quick checks on connections I had a bad ground to the ignitor, sorted that out, and she fired straight up like a stock NA, everything else is pretty much spot on so far, idle seems good, got no CEL's and im very happy with how it fires up, seems completely stock!
I haven't driven it yet, so not sure how the autobox will respond to the TT Ecu, but I did put it in to drive and reverse and seemed to select them fine and move.
As expected the tach isn't working yet, as isn't the air-con, but everything else seems spot on so far, im impressed!
Ive used 440c injectors from a JDM TT along with the fuel rail and FPR and all the following also from a TT, lower runners (modified), intake, throttle body, IAC valve, IAT valve, Map sensor, heated oxygen sensor, PAS pump and reservior, I also did reverse the wiring for the TPS sensor.
Just a quick question regarding the VVTi coils, what sort of brackets r u guys using to hold them in place?....Also Ive not adjusted the timing yet Ive left everything stock to begin with.
Also just wanna thank Ali for this fantastic thread and ecu mod!
Here is a vid I made, this is starting from a warm engine.
I haven't driven it yet, so not sure how the autobox will respond to the TT Ecu, but I did put it in to drive and reverse and seemed to select them fine and move.
As expected the tach isn't working yet, as isn't the air-con, but everything else seems spot on so far, im impressed!
Ive used 440c injectors from a JDM TT along with the fuel rail and FPR and all the following also from a TT, lower runners (modified), intake, throttle body, IAC valve, IAT valve, Map sensor, heated oxygen sensor, PAS pump and reservior, I also did reverse the wiring for the TPS sensor.
Just a quick question regarding the VVTi coils, what sort of brackets r u guys using to hold them in place?....Also Ive not adjusted the timing yet Ive left everything stock to begin with.
Also just wanna thank Ali for this fantastic thread and ecu mod!
Here is a vid I made, this is starting from a warm engine.
Last edited by TRD1; 01-21-13 at 07:41 AM.
01-21-13, 10:42 AM
#868
I have a couple of questions concerning fuel injectors.
I bought 6 RC440cc injectors used and sent them off to be cleaned. they came back with
2 @ 439cc
2 @ 440cc
2 @ 441cc
I've read that the back cylinders run hotter but thought that was due to the EGR system which will be deleted. I'll be blocking at the port on exhaust side to delete the vacum port on the back of the head.
I was thinking of running them like this. Is there a better way or am I over thinking this?
Cyl 1+2 - 439cc
Cyl 3+4 - 440cc
Cyl 5+6 - 441cc
Now do these injectors just drop in or do they need different seals and o-rings? Below is why I'm asking the question.
I talked to RC and they said to run the stock injectors seals. So i went to swap the seal that goes into the manifold (bottom of the injector) and the stock seal started to tear, granted it's an old seal. The diameter on the RC injector nozzle is larger than stock. Measured both seals on their respective injectors and the RC seal is just a tad bit bigger (couple hundredths of an inch).
The stock top o-ring seems too loose on the RC injector but the one that came on them after being cleaned seem to have the same outside diameter and fit the injector better.
I bought 6 RC440cc injectors used and sent them off to be cleaned. they came back with
2 @ 439cc
2 @ 440cc
2 @ 441cc
I've read that the back cylinders run hotter but thought that was due to the EGR system which will be deleted. I'll be blocking at the port on exhaust side to delete the vacum port on the back of the head.
I was thinking of running them like this. Is there a better way or am I over thinking this?
Cyl 1+2 - 439cc
Cyl 3+4 - 440cc
Cyl 5+6 - 441cc
Now do these injectors just drop in or do they need different seals and o-rings? Below is why I'm asking the question.
I talked to RC and they said to run the stock injectors seals. So i went to swap the seal that goes into the manifold (bottom of the injector) and the stock seal started to tear, granted it's an old seal. The diameter on the RC injector nozzle is larger than stock. Measured both seals on their respective injectors and the RC seal is just a tad bit bigger (couple hundredths of an inch).
The stock top o-ring seems too loose on the RC injector but the one that came on them after being cleaned seem to have the same outside diameter and fit the injector better.
01-21-13, 10:48 PM
#869
I know this answer can be checked out with a multimeter, but just wondering if you guys have the answer to this before I check it. The power signal from the ecu to stock maf, is that a 5v or 12v? I know map signal needs 5 volt signal, and dont want to send a 12 volt signal to it.
Also, If i was to use the AEM EMS 1100 with 1101 cal file, can start it off with factory maf, do I need to switch the maf signal from 66B to 62B? Or map and AIT is required?
Also, If i was to use the AEM EMS 1100 with 1101 cal file, can start it off with factory maf, do I need to switch the maf signal from 66B to 62B? Or map and AIT is required?
01-22-13, 04:12 AM
#870
maf is 5v, unsure about the pins right this second, but I wouldn't use the maf with the AEM, it translates maf into load, which is map anyways, and it just isn't the same... buy a $30 gm 3 or 3.5 bar map sensor and be done with it...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-new-3-...cccfdf&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-new-3-...cccfdf&vxp=mtr