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Looks like most people avoided the swap due to needing the retain the obd2 port functionality and not wanting to use a piggyback. Parallel ecu's sounds like the best option, I wonder how much a parallel jumper harness would run.
I would guess most people would rather deal with a 92-95 than try anything with a 98-00 car. Not to mention I don't see many 98-00 cars floating around.
I feel like I'm overestimating the advantages of the vvti gte, maybe gerrb can chime in on this as well, since I've never driven one.
That is why I chose a 95 originally to not mess with the obd2 stuff. If I was in a non emissions place I would be temped to grab a 98+ and swap it with single turbo and manual trans.
If you are already getting a harness made from lets say tweak, is isn't that much more to get a parallel ecu setup from them (I asked about this when considering the sc430 swap which requires dual ecu's), but the overall cost is still alot when you factor in that you could just reuse your GE harness if you can do a little bit of wiring in the bay.
That being said, there is not much stopping people from doing vvti swaps on the obd1 cars... just a little bit more wiring to do is all.
vvti helps with down low power and spool, pretty much where the I6 turbo is lacking, so it helps even out the powerband.
Everyone in the know is doing it nowadays.
Originally Posted by gerrb
A lot better. The side view (taken from behind or front) showing both the humps on the quarter panel and front fender wheel well is the best view of that car IMHO.
Looks like most people avoided the swap due to needing the retain the obd2 port functionality and not wanting to use a piggyback. Parallel ecu's sounds like the best option, I wonder how much a parallel jumper harness would run.
I would guess most people would rather deal with a 92-95 than try anything with a 98-00 car. Not to mention I don't see many 98-00 cars floating around.
I feel like I'm overestimating the advantages of the vvti gte, maybe gerrb can chime in on this as well, since I've never driven one.
Tuners used to dislike the VVTi of the 2JZ . It was because there were very few aftermarket parts for them. But more and more are seeing the advantages of the VVTi for boosted applications and more manufacturers are selling parts for them. In fact a lot of Supra guys are moving to the VVTi heads . We spend most of our time driving on the lower RPMs. VVTi gives you more torque down low and spool your turbo faster .
If you are not concerned about emissions (well even most of the older ones still have to pass emissions if you live in an county / state that needs one) then using the VVTi head mated with an older short block (VVTI rods are weaker that is why you need the older rods or even better if you can have a built short block) will be a good idea. There are pros and cons . You already have the COP, you have a crank and camshaft sensor but I suggest going aftermarket ECU to take advantage of VVTi. With a VVTi head , without the dizzy , you cannot adjust timing anymore .
Again , it is all about what you want to use the car for and how much power are you aiming for. You need to build your car according to its purpose. It has been proven that up to 400rwhp & 400ft/lbs , a stock vvti engine if in good shape will handle the power using E85 which means you need an aftermarket ECU. You can check the build thread of 93twintrbo . He and others have made that power . But you can't abuse it cause the rods are weak. The vvti harness is also the best harness to start with as a base harness with some modifications if one wants to do a 2jzgte vvti swap on their car.
Good points, When I refer to a vvti na-t, I usually mean slapping a vvti head (usually ge but could be gte) on a non vvti (ge) engine.
You can do it with a full ge vvti block but you will be very limited by the block as mentioned. if you can live with that power though get a small turbo and it'll still be pretty fun.
I think you missed the part where you reuse your ge vvti harness, so you just use the harness in the gs300 that plugs into the gs300, then there is no repinning on the body plug side.
Gerrb said pretty much that above, check out his thread its ridiculously useful when it comes to learning about these harnesses.
I understand using 2 ecus with my current harness. I said pretty much that above, that I will check out his thread to read how I would repin the ecu plug to work.
My point above was that Dr. Tweak charges $1600 for this same dual ecu set up when its just repinning the ecu plugs. Yes I read it correctly and I couldnt believe that he charges that much and doesnt even have it working on a single ecu set up.Therefore, I think Ill just stick with this na-t method and have virtually the same results
this thread doesn't specifically have the wiring for doing the vvti version. you will have to look up the pin numbers but most of the stuff is on the harness already. I think its just adding the wiring for the map sensor, swap out injectors for right size, swap in gte ecu, and swap in gte maf, recirculate bov for best results. that is most of it I think. obd2 wont work but should run well.
I have heard of people just using the n/a ecu and using a aem fic or something like that (I have also heard of megasquirt). with some o2 foolers etc.. I guess they can make the stock ecu happy.
Thats why the best thing is to have an obd1 SC and then do whatever you want setup wise as it just has to pass the sniffer.
Looks like obd2 is just unpleasant no matter what, which I have the pleasure of dealing with anyway without any vvti goodness.I'll defiantly think twice next time I see a 98-00 sc3 on craigslist with this new information. For now I'm happy with the high compression and small turbo, and soon enough I'll be praying to the w58 gods after I'm done with the second phase of my build.
Yeah obd2 and turbo's don't mix too well unless they came that way factory. I would have bought a 98-2000 sc300 by now if that wasn't the case.
Good luck with the w58 it seems to be hit or miss.
Stay warm folks!! Winter is here so its time for the big toys now
Alright guys I'm finally taking this route to NA-T seriously. I managed to grab a 97 USDM TT 6speed ECU to keep the OBDII functional for emissions. I've read throughout the 200 pages of wisdom from all of CL but I'm sure I'll drop by to ask some questions.
I will be doing this on a separate motor but before I buy it I was wondering if a jdm 2jzge would work the same? I found a jdm engine shop near me and they have the GE non vvti for sale. Will this jdm NA motor work the same, are there any differences that might affect my build (must be obd2/pass emissions)? Afaik there is no EGR on the jdm version of the GE.
you can use the JDM one just fine, except it wont have egr but you can bolt it on for appearance if needed.
also note that the throttle body cable comes from the right hand side (cause those are RHD), so you will probably want a usdm throttle body.
You might be able to reuse the jdm throttle body and use the usdm throttle cable bracket which bolts to y piece... not sure never tried it before. actually the jdm y piece probably doesn't have the mounting hole for it... if that is the case then you need the Y piece at least and probably the usdm throttle body and cable bracket.
the JDM piece is nice because it is the throttle body without trac control so it has less crap on it, but you can find those on manual US cars also.
on the usdm Y pipe intake piece right before the throttle body, the metal piece that comes off the top for the PCV, had a bend in it to go around the throttle cable.
on the JDM one above its a straight metal piece and may interfere, not sure... you can probably bend it, or just use your whole USDM Y pipe and throttle body when the time comes.
you can use the JDM one just fine, except it wont have egr but you can bolt it on for appearance if needed.
also note that the throttle body cable comes from the right hand side (cause those are RHD), so you will probably want a usdm throttle body.
You might be able to reuse the jdm throttle body and use the usdm throttle cable bracket which bolts to y piece... not sure never tried it before. actually the jdm y piece probably doesn't have the mounting hole for it... if that is the case then you need the Y piece at least and probably the usdm throttle body and cable bracket.
the JDM piece is nice because it is the throttle body without trac control so it has less crap on it, but you can find those on manual US cars also.
on the usdm Y pipe intake piece right before the throttle body, the metal piece that comes off the top for the PCV, had a bend in it to go around the throttle cable.
on the JDM one above its a straight metal piece and may interfere, not sure... you can probably bend it, or just use your whole USDM Y pipe and throttle body when the time comes.
Very useful info thanks Ali, I'll probably source a us GE instead to make it simpler.
would these 550cc injectors work on my obd2 lower runners? I didn't quite understand if I had to convert to obd1 style runners to run injectors. But I do know I'd need 550cc for theUSDM TT ecu.
So far I have the TT ECU, vvti coil packs and ds62 igniter. Still trying to look for a TT map sensor and MAPECU for the maf and map connections.
Also, do I have to hack my 97 5spd harness or could I use a harness off a 92-95 auto and still have my obd2 / manual trans functional? If I find a separate engine it would most likely be 92-95 since those are more common.
EDIT: found one of your replies on a thread about 0bd1/2 differences
Originally Posted by Ali SC3
92-97 the upper intakes are pretty much the same.
92-95 the lower runner are the normal kind with the normal injectors (brown colored)
96-97 they added a large vacuum line to the lower runners for emissions and changed the style of injectors from the normal brown kind to these ones that are larger on the bottom with larger o-rings and they are blue in color.
They also changed the idle valve on the throttle body to have a large vac line and that line runs to the lower runners. also 96 and 97 have an extra hot start VSV on the fuel pressure regulator that 92-95 does not have but this is not that important it can be bypassed.
so in short odb2 96-97 has different lower runners, different shaped injectors (still 330cc), different throttle idle valve on the throttle body, and you will have to get the odb2 style of injectors when using these runners.
With this I'm assuming the 92-95 obd1 harness (auto) would be the same as 96-97 obd2 (add new wires for the obd2 port to function), apart from injectors, lower runners and idle valve being different.
There are some differences between the 96-97 injectors and the vvti injectors... so not sure exactly what rail those injectors fit. Since you have the motor out I would suggest swapping the whole obd1 intake setup onto the other motor, including the lower runners, upper, y pipe and throttle body... then you can use obd1 injectors and in the future when you go to larger injectors you have tons of options.
you can add the obd2 wires to an obd1 harness, its not difficult. either that or use a 96-97 harness.
also for that obd2 tt ecu you will need a tt maf, or better yet find a map ecu to simulate the maf and then you can fine tune it and not have to recirculate the bov.
After buying the USDM OBDII ECU and hearing all the problems related to it, I'll be going with a Jdm 6 speed ecu, stock 440 inj so no need for mapecu, etc., COP, TT map and IAT. Will be converting to obd1 lower runners since I have a 97. When smog time comes I guess I'll just remove all turbo related stuff. I decided not to buy the jdm GE engine based on it has no egr and I checked it out in person and it wasn't in the best condition overall.
So far, TT ecu mod stuff bought, XS Power T70 kit along with ARP and TT hg's (from nova's FS thread) are what I have now. Will be upgrading clutch on my w58. Almost similar setup to what you were running Ali which I didn't realize untill now. I'm hyped
If you have way of getting out of the CA bar / emissions / tests .. going MAP based is always best for boosted application . The USDM 6speed ecu will need the MAF which is a limiting factor when going higher in boost.
I just feel it is a lot of work removing and undoing all that stuff related to boosting like COP / Turbo parts if you still need to qualify with CA requirements.
Yeah its going to be a tough switch every couple years... but it is doable I guess.
Thanks Gerrb, Southern style offroad really came through with a nice bumper for the GX, had to wait 2-3 months but was worth it.
Still need to toss the winch on it and wire up stuff but getting there.
Actually just put on a Gamiviti roof rack also this weekend, have a roof top tent in the plans for later this year
Hello all! First thanks to Ali for an awesome write up. I have been working on converting my car for a while now and I finally got it ready to start and now I have no spark. I've double checked all my wiring with an ohm meter and it is good. But I'm not getting any power to my coils after working around with a test light. It's throwing a code 31, which I believe is unrelated to spark. All my grounds are good, the only thing that might be effecting it is that the ecu is not bolted in. I have 2 different ecus I have tried with no results on either. Any advice on what I can try next? I'm thinking possibly bad igniter (ds62). Any help would be great. Thanks
01-05-17, 04:32 PM
